When did the rent start getting discussed (4 Viewers)

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Looking for news articles with quotes about the rent or the Ricoh in general. Found this from 2011, wonder if anyone can beat it?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...news/coventry-city-stadium-costs-same-3034456

THE company that runs the Ricoh Arena have hit back at Leonard Brody’s claim that Coventry City's £1.2million annual rent is three times what it should be and a financial ‘noose’ around the club’s neck.

The former City director yesterday insisted that the current situation is not sustainable and that, as a shareholder, he will try to ‘fix’ it as quickly as possible.

But David Allvey, chairman of Arena Coventry Ltd, said: “I was very surprised to read Mr Brody’s statement concerning the club’s rent.

"This was unexpected because we obviously have ongoing discussions with the football club both on a day-to-day basis and at a strategic level.

“Unfortunately there are some inaccuracies in Mr Brody’s statement. We would like to provide some clarification regarding the points he makes.

“The rent levels are actually comparable with other clubs that don’t own their stadiums.

“The club’s annual stadium running costs today are the same as they were ten years ago at Highfield Road.

“As a cost line within the club’s accounts, rent is around seven per cent of their total cost base.

“It would appear that the most important factor in the Club’s future success is a clear strategy to re-engage the fans and drive up attendances.

“ACL has always been and remains fully committed to supporting the hard working operational team at the club to achieve this.”

Coventry City’s board, meanwhile, have moved to distance themselves from Brody’s comments.

A statement issued yesterday afternoon read: “The board of Coventry City Football Club note the interview published in the local media with former director Leonard Brody.

"Mr Brody speaks as an independent minority shareholder and not as the voice of the board.

“The club recognises that the Ricoh Arena is an important amenity for the city of Coventry.

"While it is true that the club does pay a substantial annual rent, the board are committed to finding a longer-term ownership solution for the Ricoh Arena which best serves the interests of all its stakeholders.

“As previously stated by our chairman, the board are working to prove to the Arena’s stakeholders that we have both the financial ability and management capability to drive the business forward.

“We believe that by all sides supporting each other, a longer-term solution can be realised that benefits both the club and the wider community.”
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Again. Looking for actual quotes/documents/ articles. Not anecdotal evidence.

That one shows that as little as two years ago the club as a whole weren't concerned about the rent. Also interesting to note that costs haven't risen since HR (unless that's a bit sneaky as we'd sold the ground then I think).
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
seems much much longer than that ............
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Again. Looking for actual quotes/documents/ articles. Not anecdotal evidence.

I've stuck the EGM quotes up before, can't now as am hard at work:thinking about: but will this evening if you want the quotes.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
Again. Looking for actual quotes/documents/ articles. Not anecdotal evidence.

That one shows that as little as two years ago the club as a whole weren't concerned about the rent. Also interesting to note that costs haven't risen since HR (unless that's a bit sneaky as we'd sold the ground then I think).

He seemed to think that the club was bringing around £17million a year as well, whilst also forgetting the £10,000 a game costs the club had to pay.

A year before this he was sounding out Rugby teams and the sponsors in case we moved out because of increasingly difficult rent rows.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Again. Looking for actual quotes/documents/ articles. Not anecdotal evidence.

That one shows that as little as two years ago the club as a whole weren't concerned about the rent. Also interesting to note that costs haven't risen since HR (unless that's a bit sneaky as we'd sold the ground then I think).

The rent abatement is publicised in some council governance meeting for the Ricoh construction.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
He seemed to think that the club was bringing around £17million a year as well, whilst also forgetting the £10,000 a game costs the club had to pay.

A year before this he was sounding out Rugby teams and the sponsors in case we moved out because of increasingly difficult rent rows.

So you think the clubs response to the Brody interview was about trying to keep negotiations sweet? Sounds more like we were looking to buy to me (though that goes against Fishers statement at the forums).
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I've stuck the EGM quotes up before, can't now as am hard at work:thinking about: but will this evening if you want the quotes.

Please. Decided to try and catalogue a load of quotes in a timeline for my own sake. If you don't hear from me in a while I'm probably rocking in a darkened room with walls covered in photos of Fisher, council minutes and tons of red string.
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
So you think the clubs response to the Brody interview was about trying to keep negotiations sweet? Sounds more like we were looking to buy to me (though that goes against Fishers statement at the forums).

Could have been, was Joe Elliott still there? He's generally the one wheeled out by all boards over the years to make everything sound nicey-nicey.

All shows that talks over the rent been going on for a while longer than people think.
 

skybluegnome

Well-Known Member
I do know that when Paul Fletcher was CEO he approached ACL about the rent and got nowhere....so that was some years ago...
 

RFC

Well-Known Member
Rent was set far to high way back in 2003 (I'm informed under duress), two years before we moved into the Ricoh!
The average club in the First Division are paying between £150,000 & £170,000, WE'VE BEEN OVER-PAYING for far too many years. So whose at fault?
The Owners - YES, CCC - YES
and ACL - YES but our current situation is totally down to ACL IMHO and who instructs them what to do, you've guessed it
COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL!!!!!!!!
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Rent was set far to high way back in 2003 (I'm informed under duress), two years before we moved into the Ricoh!
The average club in the First Division are paying between £150,000 & £170,000, WE'VE BEEN OVER-PAYING for far too many years. So whose at fault?
The Owners - YES, CCC - YES
and ACL - YES but our current situation is totally down to ACL IMHO and who instructs them what to do, you've guessed it
COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL!!!!!!!!

Well you did get one thing right, the rent at that level was set before we moved into the Ricoh. However if you actually checked your facts and a 60 second search is all it took me to find this from PWKH

a couple of days ago in another thread I wrote:

Someone asked how the rental was arrived at: in the final years at HR the lease plus costs was c£900,000. The cost of lease and licence at the Rioch followed that model. It was signed off by Robinson and Brannigan for the Club and Fletcher and McGuigan on behalf of ACL. It had been agreed by the Boards of both ACL and CCFC.

and it is BT who disrupt my internet connection without the need for anybody else's help.

You'd see that the club signed off on rent, which is incidentally a tiny part (even if you add it up over the years) of the massive debts we've accumulated under SISU.
 
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fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Well you did get one thing right, the rent at that level was set before we moved into the Ricoh. However if you actually checked your facts and a 60 second search is all it took me to find this from PWKH



You'd see that the club signed off on rent, which is incidentally a tiny part (even if you add it up over the years) of the massive debts we've accumulated under SISU.

Stop apologising over the rent. It's been admitted by all parties that the rent was excessive. There is no doubt about it. I am not sure what point you're trying to make other than the club's former board being of a poor standard.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Didn't the club also reject ACLs proposal of a sliding scale of rent dependent on division in preference for a flat rate? If I've remembered that correctly presumably they did so as they thought we'd be in the prem and they'd be laughing all the way to the bank or do those who criticize ACL for not lowering the rent also think CCFC would have volunteered to pay higher rent if we had got into the prem?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Didn't the club also reject ACLs proposal of a sliding scale of rent dependent on division in preference for a flat rate? If I've remembered that correctly presumably they did so as they thought we'd be in the prem and they'd be laughing all the way to the bank or do those who criticize ACL for not lowering the rent also think CCFC would have volunteered to pay higher rent if we had got into the prem?

I rember PWKH saying something about that but can't find it yet. That article in my last post suggests that's the plan though Fletcher talks about how the club will rake it in with bigger crowds when they're back in the Prem.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Stop apologising over the rent. It's been admitted by all parties that the rent was excessive. There is no doubt about it. I am not sure what point you're trying to make other than the club's former board being of a poor standard.

The point I think is it isn't all big bad ACL when it comes to apportioning blame for said excessive rent. I'll keep looking for the PWKH quote about the club turning down a sliding scale, but even without it, it's hard to say the club have been screwed over.

Edit: still looking for hard facts on the club starting rent negotiations. Anything in Fletchers book and can I pirate it?
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Stop apologising over the rent. It's been admitted by all parties that the rent was excessive. There is no doubt about it. I am not sure what point you're trying to make other than the club's former board being of a poor standard.

I've said before that the rent was too high and needed revisiting as a matter of some urgency. Sisu may or may not have attempted to seriously negotiate with ACL before starting the rent boycott, and the Q&A session with the trust lead me to believe that they didn't. What RFC said was that ACL were solely to blame for the rent level which clearly isn't the full story.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
The point I think is it isn't all big bad ACL when it comes to apportioning blame for said excessive rent. I'll keep looking for the PWKH quote about the club turning down a sliding scale, but even without it, it's hard to say the club have been screwed over.

Edit: still looking for hard facts on the club starting rent negotiations. Anything in Fletchers book and can I pirate it?
Think Sir Higgs proposed it and when I finish lunch I'll have a look on a proper computer not my tablet.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Was thinking similar, if not quite so brutalist in delivery!
 

Godiva

Well-Known Member
Looking for news articles with quotes about the rent or the Ricoh in general. Found this from 2011, wonder if anyone can beat it?

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sp...news/coventry-city-stadium-costs-same-3034456

I can't beat that but it made me browse through some older posts, and here is what I found (from 03.03.2013)

I hope PWKH will reveal if the cub tried to get a negotiation going over the rent before they stopped paying.

As a board member of ACL I am not aware of any rent discussions with Fisher et al before the rent stopped being paid.

Thank you for your answer.

If the club made no contact to try to renogotiate the rent before stopping payment, then that is simply stupid and unjustifiable.
I would really like a comment from Fisher on that.


Whole thread: http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/27576-Million-dollar-question/page13)
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Fucking hell, you have long lunches where you work!

Sadly not, we've been busy (and it's late closing this evening), so I only started my lunch hour at 15:55.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I can't beat that but it made me browse through some older posts, and here is what I found (from 03.03.2013)








Whole thread: http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/27576-Million-dollar-question/page13)

Thanks (no like on mobile).

To be pedantic, that leaves the possibility of negotiations prior to Fisher. I'd like to know the story surrounding Brody sounding off about it as that's the first public statement on rent specifically I can find and the board seemed to take the public position of ownership being the long term goal.
 

James Smith

Well-Known Member
This is the sliding scale quote I was thinking of and contains at least one of the quotes Godiva posted.

Way back when, when McGinnity was Chairman, the late Sir Derek Higgs proposed a new rent structure. He was director of CCFC and ACL. His rent proposal was to have a base rent set for each League with increases linked to attendance. McGinnity and Hover, then Chief Executive of CCFC, rejected this outright as although there were reductions for Championship, League One etc, there would have been an increase in the base in the Premiership.
Robinson made some half-hearted attempts to open a discussion on rent but he too would not accept anything like the Higgs proposal. The important thing for ACL was to set up a structure that was sustainable, Robinson just wanted to set part of the rent aside until they could pay it one sunny day in the future.The advantage of the Higgs proposal was that there would have been a direct link to the Club's income.

Someone asked how the rental was arrived at: in the final years at HR the lease plus costs was c£900,000. The cost of lease and licence at the Rioch followed that model. It was signed off by Robinson and Brannigan for the Club and Fletcher and McGuigan on behalf of ACL. It had been agreed by the Boards of both ACL and CCFC.

As a board member of ACL I am not aware of any rent discussions with Fisher et al before the rent stopped being paid.

When the Charity bought the shares in ACL everyone expected CCFC to buy its way straight back into ACL. The Charity actually appointed as Directors of ACL the Chairman of CCFC and Sir Derek who was both shareholder and Director of CCFC.
It has been said that Sisu should have acted faster, when they bought CCFC, to purchase the shares. Perhaps it would have been better for CCFC to have made that purchase instead of following Fletcher's fantasies under Robinson. Everyone will have a view as do I and probably there is a bit right in all of them and a bit wrong as well. It is an odd person who believes that they are always right.

On one of the threads it was suggested that we, the directors of ACL, gain personally, or could gain, from the success of ACL's business or negotiations. Neither those appointed by the City Council or by the Charity are paid anything at all. This is stated clearly in the accounts, the most recent of which were lodged at Companies House on either Wednesday or Thursday of this week.

ACL has recently answered a list of questions posed by the Sky Blues Trust. They have asked, or are trying to ask, a similar set of questions of Fisher and CCFC. We have agreed that the Q&A can be published alongside those of Fisher's. I hope that he answers the questions because then people will be able to set one alongside the other and, I hope, be able to begin to see the wood for the trees.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
This is the sliding scale quote I was thinking of and contains at least one of the quotes Godiva posted.

Cheers, have you got the link if its not too much trouble?

Edit: found Q&A.

One interesting tidbit already: Does your team have the authority to agree a deal? CCFC: As long as it makes the club cash flow zero next season.

What the hell sort of deal would do that?

Edit 2: and another:
7: Is the rent at £400k in League 1 acceptable ?

ACL: Yes

CCFC: Yes [if other accompanying terms are kept to]
 
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