Breaking News - Judge kicks out SISU's judicial review against CCC / ACL (1 Viewer)

[Oz Howie]

Any parties on the outside (eg PHIV et al) should now be considering 2 scenarios.
1. Buy ACL (Council and Higgs shares) to finally kill off SISU's hopes of getting Ricoh on the cheap, or
2. Wait for SISU to either go bust or fire sale CCFC Holdings.

Tough decision!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

So now a court of law has noted the "withholding of lawfully owed rent by SISU as a means of exerting pressure on ACL in commercial negotiations", ACL might want to politely ask the FL again why they sided with SISU...

Absobloodylutely they should!

 

[duffer]

That's true - but if it were established that all the companies were "associated" (in the context of the lease), then if SISU went down the administration route, we'd have a proper administration i.e. the football club would be in administration rather than "a non-trading property owning subsidiary".

Then potential buyers might have a chance of competing on a more level playing field.

Seems I might be in a minority of one, but I think some of the statements have been marvellously entertaining. Much better than the bland nonsense that normally gets pumped out!

I like the 'associated companies' theory - I like it lots. Not saying it would work mind, but there is what seems to me the odd idea that Holdings can assert beneficial ownership of everything in Ltd without any contingent liablilities. I'd like to see that explained too.

And I enjoy the statements too. Better to have something coming out from the various parties than nothing.

 

[skybluehugh]

Nice of you to admit to trying to derail the thread. Please stop, ignore me if I offend you that much.

As a serious point, it does show how bad relations have got between the parties.

But who has made them so bad. Our owners have done nothing but try and bully the City of Coventry, in the form of ACL/CCC into handing over the arena for sod all. But just like we did during WW2 we have stood firm knowing the City is better than any HF bullies.

 

[skybluehugh]

Nice of you to admit to trying to derail the thread. Please stop, ignore me if I offend you that much.

But who has made them so bad. Our owners have done nothing but try and bully the City of Coventry, in the form of ACL/CCC into handing over the arena for sod all. But just like we did during WW2 we have stood firm knowing the City is better than any HF bullies.

For once I will apologise NW you were not meant to be quoted in this post. I don't know how I managed to get two quotes in one post. I have never managed it before.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

But who has made them so bad. Our owners have done nothing but try and bully the City of Coventry, in the form of ACL/CCC into handing over the arena for sod all. But just like we did during WW2 we have stood firm knowing the City is better than any HF bullies.

I agree entirely.

I know that "but he started it" is generally an unproductive route to go down, but for me the approach that TF took through the negotiations was (quite literally) amazing.

It seemed to go against all common sense - until the mists cleared and (for me) it became obvious that he wasn't actually focussed on negotiating a better rent, but was actually playing a very different game.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

NO I HAVEN'T!

Christ, seriously, given you appear determined to further this personal campaign, you really are a thick twat if you can't even be bothered to read the words I write.

stfu until you're prepared to, so just ignore me and just sod off please instead of making it personal for reasons best known to yourself.

Turning against your own! Moron.

It's idiots like you determined to get a game of one-upmanship who kill the club!

SHITZU!!!!!!!!!

What is stfu? Is it one of Harry Hill's animals name?

 

[kmj5000]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I can almost hear timmy crying

Hahahaha

I can hear the grass grow.

 

[Nsgdm1]

How many olive branches do they need to give sisu for god sake?? Sisu don't want to play at the Ricoh,end of story. Im even starting to feel that i dont want ccfc back if sisu are still in charge.

Cheers COVFAN
Short statement following this morning's Judicial Review ruling

Coventry City Football Club has noted the ruling by Mr Justice Males on the Judicial Review and will consider the decision before taking its next steps

will probably decide to take legal action against the judge for inflammatory comments and daring to throw their case out ,using the Football League as key witnesses

 

[Nsgdm1]

How many olive branches do they need to give sisu for god sake?? Sisu don't want to play at the Ricoh,end of story. Im even starting to feel that i dont want ccfc back if sisu are still in charge.

And the Council have got to find £19million of Cuts this year, i don't know where the council is going to find the money because normally they have a contigency fund for this sort of event but for som reason they have'nt got one anymore

The money they used for the loan has nothing to do with the day to day running of the council,it was cash put aside ,due to government rules it probably could not have been used to offset these cuts and if it could have been used all it would do would be to put them off for a year because if the council proved they could perform without making cuts the government would cut next years budget.

 

[James Smith]

will probably decide to take legal action against the judge for inflammatory comments and daring to throw their case out ,using the Football League as key witnesses

No no they'll attack the Higgs next, they've done ACL and the Council so they would be the next logical step.

 

[robbieray]

Surely the FL etc should pick up on this now and decide Sisu unfit to run the club

 

[skybluehugh]

I can hear the grass grow.

Fishtwat will have to mow it himself as he won't pay for the gardener.

 

[skybluehugh]

Surely the FL etc should pick up on this now and decide Sisu unfit to run the club

I don't think they can as they up to their own necks in all this. I think they will be as worried that this has been dismissed as our owners are. it wouldn't surprise me if little timmy and his mum told the league there was no way they could lose this as case and that they would be back at the arena very soon

 

[thegameaintstraight]

Man with the Golden Share.

For Joy...."The world is not enough"

Thunderballs (Of Steel).

 

[James Smith]

goldsharer

Golddigger more like.

 

[VisitingPie]

So now a court of law has noted the "withholding of lawfully owed rent by SISU as a means of exerting pressure on ACL in commercial negotiations", ACL might want to politely ask the FL again why they sided with SISU...

But the FL have so much more important things to deal with..

http://www.belgeinfo.com/mascot-not-fat-enough-after-19-years-29302-2013/

Note the sentence..'The FL had told us at the time of the league 2 play off final that only animal or human mascots were now appropriate if they wore an anonymous headset'.

Good to see the FL have their fingers on the pulse for such an important issue. Never mind backing SISU and taking CCFC away from Coventry where you have a perfectly good ground you could play at, it's great that the FL are really making a difference where it counts.

 

[skybluehugh]

Golddigger more like.

"Clubkiller, she's the one who knows how to fuck us up" to the tune of Goldfinger of course

 

[James Smith]

"Clubkiller, she's the one who knows how to fuck us up" to the tune of Goldfinger of course

Dr No we won't be coming back to the Ricoh unless you give us the freehold at our price.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree entirely.

I know that "but he started it" is generally an unproductive route to go down, but for me the approach that TF took through the negotiations was (quite literally) amazing.

It seemed to go against all common sense - until the mists cleared and (for me) it became obvious that he wasn't actually focussed on negotiating a better rent, but was actually playing a very different game.

The problem with 'he started it' is we probably do have to go back to initial deals etc and that probably isnt very productive 'for the present.

The more pertinent question now surely is not who started it, but who's going to end it?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

The problem with 'he started it' is we probably do have to go back to initial deals etc and that probably isnt very productive 'for the present.

The more pertinent question now surely is not who started it, but who's going to end it?

My comment was specifically about negotiating style and even more particularly about the public statements that were made - rather than the context of the overall position.

You may recall that I've said before that I thought that whilst SISU had a poor legal position, they had a strong moral position over the rent - but seemed to go out of their way to blow it!

The problem is that this negotiating style and the related issue of trust are very significant where SISU's desired end game is ownership of the Ricoh.

I really don't know if we could now (or in the short term) get to a position where the Council would have sufficient trust in SISU to sell them the stadium even if they were to make a sensible offer.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

No no they'll attack the Higgs next, they've done ACL and the Council so they would be the next logical step.

I do hope so that would be brilliant publicity can see it now Mayfair Hedge Fund out to destroy local charity owner Ms Joy Seppalla says charaties are evil and hedge funds should run them for the benefit of local people,but of course its much better if all their funds were in our Cayman Islands bank

 

[Deleted member 5849]

My comment was specifically about negotiating style and even more particularly about the public statements that were made - rather than the context of the overall position.

You may recall that I've said before that I thought that whilst SISU had a poor legal position, they had a strong moral position over the rent - but seemed to go out of their way to blow it!

The problem is that this negotiating style and the related issue of trust are very significant where SISU's desired end game is ownership of the Ricoh.

I really don't know if we could now (or in the short term) get to a position where the Council would have sufficient trust in SISU to sell them the stadium even if they were to make a sensible offer.

Believe it or not(!) (you might... I suspect some won't!) I can't necessarily defend their negotiating style...

However I will say that they were always going to negotiate like this once they 'got their act together'. this is what they do. George Soros said something along the lines that when a company is bust, he has to decide on fight or flight... SISU were always going to choose the former!

I would have thought even if trust is broken, there must be some way of starting a routemap towards ownership, with mutually agreed targets to hit for each party to continue the process. Their negotiation style is not unusual for beasts of SISU's ilk. 'Right'? Maybe not, but an understanding of that position allows for it to be countered, and opposing interests maintained rather than given into... or in fact playing SISU at their own game, badly.

Offer the carrot, and they might be far more likely to agree a rental deal. Ultimately if a deal could be agreed along the lines of the JR case (125 year lease seems reasonable to us all surely?) then the council still own the freehold... SISU can't knock the thing down then!

But moving forward, all sides in opposition to each other doesn't help. Trust is broken, you say? Well it certainly isn't going to be re-established if they don't talk to each other, but continue along a game of petty statement oneupmanship.

 

[James Smith]

Believe it or not(!) (you might... I suspect some won't!) I can't necessarily defend their negotiating style...

However I will say that they were always going to negotiate like this once they 'got their act together'. this is what they do. George Soros said something along the lines that when a company is bust, he has to decide on fight or flight... SISU were always going to choose the former!

I would have thought even if trust is broken, there must be some way of starting a routemap towards ownership, with mutually agreed targets to hit for each party to continue the process. Their negotiation style is not unusual for beasts of SISU's ilk. 'Right'? Maybe not, but an understanding of that position allows for it to be countered, and opposing interests maintained rather than given into... or in fact playing SISU at their own game, badly.

Offer the carrot, and they might be far more likely to agree a rental deal. Ultimately if a deal could be agreed along the lines of the JR case (125 year lease seems reasonable to us all surely?) then the council still own the freehold... SISU can't knock the thing down then!

But moving forward, all sides in opposition to each other doesn't help. Trust is broken, you say? Well it certainly isn't going to be re-established if they don't talk to each other, but continue along a game of petty statement oneupmanship.

But if it's true and there were threats to keep Coventry City out of the Ricoh unless Joy got it for her price, how can you negotiate with that. For all we know she may have said she wanted it for something like £1, two gobstoppers and a bag of Scampi Fries. It seems to me that SISU appear not to have a plan B and as plan A (acquire the Ricoh on the cheap) isn't going so well they're holding the club hostage in Northampton and hoping the fans will try and force the issue with ACL.

Message to Tim: This plan isn't working time to go to Plan C, get out and leave us alone.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

But if it's true

And we're back to statement wars again.

 

[James Smith]

And we're back to statement wars again.

Better Jaw Jaw than War War.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Better Jaw Jaw than War War.

Indeed.

No more statements!

More meetings!

 

[ant20coventry]

Fookin happy days.......suck on that one you fat slimy twat

hahaha uv got to be talkin bout fisher

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Believe it or not(!) (you might... I suspect some won't!) I can't necessarily defend their negotiating style...

However I will say that they were always going to negotiate like this once they 'got their act together'. this is what they do. George Soros said something along the lines that when a company is bust, he has to decide on fight or flight... SISU were always going to choose the former!

I would have thought even if trust is broken, there must be some way of starting a routemap towards ownership, with mutually agreed targets to hit for each party to continue the process. Their negotiation style is not unusual for beasts of SISU's ilk. 'Right'? Maybe not, but an understanding of that position allows for it to be countered, and opposing interests maintained rather than given into... or in fact playing SISU at their own game, badly.

Offer the carrot, and they might be far more likely to agree a rental deal. Ultimately if a deal could be agreed along the lines of the JR case (125 year lease seems reasonable to us all surely?) then the council still own the freehold... SISU can't knock the thing down then!

But moving forward, all sides in opposition to each other doesn't help. Trust is broken, you say? Well it certainly isn't going to be re-established if they don't talk to each other, but continue along a game of petty statement oneupmanship.

Firstly, I have no difficulty in believing you!

Secondly, I agree with pretty much all that.

I think that the only way forward, with SISU, would be a "one step at a time" approach, while the parties try to rebuild some trust.

I'm not sure that that would be part of SISU's game plan though. If it ever had been, we wouldn't be in Northampton.

Perhaps the loss of the judicial review will make them think again. I'd like to think so, but "rational" and "reasonable" appear to have been deleted from Joy's copy of the OED - so who knows??

 

[oldskyblue58]

In a normal business world you could offer compromises or incentives to do a deal. You could offer a low rent and a guarantee made public to begin including ownership at a point in the future say 2 years build in access to income steams on an earn out and with prospect of future ownership of the lot to be acquired at fair price. Build trust and a working relationship. But you see I do not think SISU want to wait that long and to be honest everything I see is all about all or nothing. The abrasive or beligerant style, the resorts to legals etc have done damage I fear is not repairable (thats by both sides) I just dont know how with the current owners of either you come back from it.

Just do not see SISU going for the carrot and stick approach on the rent. Why spend all this time and money to roll over because you lose one case ? When the objective is ownership of everything - nothing else gets them out of the financial hole

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Why spend all this time and money to roll over because you lose one case ?

Well personally I think too much emphasis is being placed on one case. Understandable, as it's the day it's thrown out... but come tomorrow there'll be another soap opera episode!

 

[Paxman II]

In a normal business world you could offer compromises or incentives to do a deal. You could offer a low rent and a guarantee made public to begin including ownership at a point in the future say 2 years build in access to income steams on an earn out and with prospect of future ownership of the lot to be acquired at fair price. Build trust and a working relationship. But you see I do not think SISU want to wait that long and to be honest everything I see is all about all or nothing. The abrasive or beligerant style, the resorts to legals etc have done damage I fear is not repairable (thats by both sides) I just dont know how with the current owners of either you come back from it.
Just do not see SISU going for the carrot and stick approach on the rent. Why spend all this time and money to roll over because you lose one case ? When the objective is ownership of everything - nothing else gets them out of the financial hole

Yes but in all walks of life damage is always repairable, it just needs the will of both sides to do it. As I said on another post, where does the road go if not?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Well personally I think too much emphasis is being placed on one case. Understandable, as it's the day it's thrown out... but come tomorrow there'll be another soap opera episode!

I agree and in reality what has it changed for CCFC - as it stands the club is still owned by SISU, will be playing at Sixfields,

Only thing that has changed is there is one less button for SISU to press against the CCC etc and it has relieved some financial pressures for ACL, CCC and Charity

 

[oldskyblue58]

Yes but in all walks of life damage is always repairable, it just needs the will of both sides to do it. As I said on another post, where does the road go if not?

Damage isnt always repairable but thats a different argument. Is there a will on both sides - not much evidence of it.

Where does it lead who knows because the path will shift tomorrow or next week

The club doesnt need to own the ground it needs to own income streams to be viable

It is SISU that need to own the ground

- think those distinctions of who needs what get lost in the mire of this dispute

Access to income streams can be done in many ways but seems to me one side or both are focussed on the ground ownership issues