Let them stay! Ricoh owners hold last-ditch talks with Football League (8 Viewers)

[skyblueinBaku]

Because he does work for ACL?

Or maybe he uses his professional knowledge to put in layman's terms what is happening to the club as far as finance is concerned. Perhaps he is just trying to help us understand. Did you consider that?

 

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[lordsummerisle]

Or maybe he uses his professional knowledge to put in layman's terms what is happening to the club as far as finance is concerned. Perhaps he is just trying to help us understand. Did you consider that?

Yes, but he does do work for ACL.

I'm sure he is professional and wouldn't let the fact they are paying him colour his views or judgement.

Not so sure that anybody says the same about Appleton though?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Not if Tim doesn't let him.

For example.

 

[lifelongcityfan]

nothing wrong working for the good guys!

 

[torchomatic]

OSB58 works for ACL?! When did that come out then?

 

[Grendel]

I have to disagree with you, Lord. OSB has seemed to me to be quite impartial up till now. Why would he change his stance?

He does some contractual work for ACL and that became more and more obvious. "Just my opinion of course" - well was it really?

 

[Sky Blues]

OSB58 works for ACL?! When did that come out then?

I suspect Summerisle is thinking of this post from June 11th about one of the fans' forums:

Having been asked as to who i am and was i there then I confirm that I was the one giving Mr Brookfield a grilling

Yes I was at the creditors meeting representing a client, The Alan Higgs Centre Trust in my professional capacity. All above board, with letters of engagement, signed in at that meeting etc. It was a one off appointment for that day which gave me the opportunity to question the administrator on their behalf and to assist a local charity. I have not acted for them before or since and I am not part of The Higgs Charity, ACL, the Council etc nor have I ever been.

As my name is out there I will also make clear that I have been helping, in a non professional capacity, the Sky Blue Trust in getting a handle on the financial situation at CCFC. Nothing to hide there either. Hopefully it helps the Trust get their heads round complex/messy financial matters.

Think I have proven my financial skills and been right on more than a few ocassions

I view the current situation as so serious that hiding behind a keyboard is neither relevant or useful. If any of the above upsets, devalues my contribution or disappoints some on here then so be it. My input here and other places has always been truthful and to the best of my ability and I am very comfortable with that. Oh and if I offered an opinion it was honest and I am entitled to express it just as much as anyone else

Got some questions .......

Last night I asked Mr Brookfield
- if the accounts were right or wrong, was the basis of their preparation incorrect ?
- if he had ever encountered a group banking situation whereby all bankings and payments are made from one account?
- whether it is who paid or who had the liability to pay that dictates what is in the accounts?
- whether he would care to comment on the 1996 Memorandum & Articles (approved by directors, shareholders, company house and The Football League) which reads as follows
"the Companys (CCFC Ltd) objects are:
To acquire from its parent company, The Coventry City Football Club Limited (later to be called CCFC H) as a going concern the business of the playing activities of that company and to carry on such business under the name of "COVENTYRY CITY FOOTBALL CLUB" " ..................... could he comment as to why CCFC Ltd was a non trading property subsidiary when the Company's own statutory rules said it was not

I stated the basis of those memorandum & articles had not been changed by later amendments.

Mr Brookfield is Finance director of CCFC appointed over a year ago............ these are not difficult questions.......... you might expect any director to understand the entity he is in charge of

Instead there was no real reply and the retort was "were you at the creditors meeting with the Alan Higgs Trust" - to which I immediately answered truthfully yes

Got to wonder what relevance my being at the creditors meeting had to any of the questions I asked and did not get answered :facepalm::thinking about:

They were not difficult questions

That is the truth.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

So he wasn't working for ACL.

Be nice to think that there might be an apology.

 

[Sky Blues]

He does some contractual work for ACL and that became more and more obvious. "Just my opinion of course" - well was it really?

I don't expect you to take a man at his word Duffy, but based on the words (see my post a moment ago) of this gentleman, who I have been given no reason to doubt yet, it would appear that as of June 11th at least he had not worked for ACL.

Edit: This was written when Grendel's quote read: "He does work of ACL".

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

OSB58 works for ACL?! When did that come out then?

My thoughts exactly. The answer being that he doesn't after all, it was just a good old-fashioned smearing.

 

[lordsummerisle]

My thoughts exactly. The answer being that he doesn't after all, it was just a good old-fashioned smearing.

Half of ACL then.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Half of ACL then.

There's nothing there to say he worked for them previously or presently, is there?

 

[PWKH]

As such an active poster I would have thought that you would have learnt by now that the Alan Higgs Centre Trust which used to be the home of the Academy and the Higgs Charity which owns half of ACL are different. What else do you not understand?

 

[Grendel]

There's nothing there to say he worked for them previously or presently, is there?

Correct. If I said to you I had represented sisu in one discussion regarding advertising strategy in the local area what opinion would you form?

 

[lordsummerisle]

There's nothing there to say he worked for them previously or presently, is there?

Is there anything that I've said that said that?

I just said that he had done work for ACL(apologies for getting that wrong, actually the Alan Higgs Trust,but pretty much interwoven when connected to the club).

Though of course nothing to say that he hasn't done further work for them since then either.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

He does some contractual work for ACL and that became more and more obvious. "Just my opinion of course" - well was it really?

This really does take the biscuit. Scratch that, have the tin.

 

[Sky Blues]

PWKH, while you're here, can you give us any indication how the meeting with the Football League went?

 

[Tonylinc]

If I can interject here; I don't give a fig whether OSB is or has ever worked for ACL or Shitzu; I have always found his postings very enlightening,useful and very impartial.

 

[skybluedan]

The FL probably sent the deaf-squad in again to listen (no offence intended to the hard of hearing)

If a deaf man is in court is it still called a hearing

 

[Grendel]

If I can interject here; I don't give a fig whether OSB is or has ever worked for ACL or Shitzu; I have always found his postings very enlightening,useful and very impartial.

To be fair neither do I. However if anyone found I had once done any work for sisu, otium or any other company of that type it would be party time for the vast majority.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

However if anyone found I had once done any work for sisu, otium or any other company of that type it would be party time for the vast majority.

That much is indeed true.

However tbf not quite sure where this thread's been going the past couple of hours, or why!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Correct. If I said to you I had represented sisu in one discussion regarding advertising strategy in the local area what opinion would you form?

Well I wouldn't be surprised to hear that they'd hired you for your campaign work against their enemy.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Is there anything that I've said that said that?

I just said that he had done work for ACL(apologies for getting that wrong, actually the Alan Higgs Trust,but pretty much interwoven when connected to the club).

Though of course nothing to say that he hasn't done further work for them since then either.

Well he has been a lot less active of late, but I think the majority of praise he garners is for what he's said in the past, before he was "working for Higgs". It's not impossible to imagine a scenario where their employees, should any browse this board, noticed his intelligence and coherence when discussing complicated financial matters and considered he could be a handy bloke to hire. It in no way invalidates what he said previous to working for Higgs, which is what's being implied with the "just my opinion-or is it" comment.


Even if it turned out he had been working for Higgs, ACL and Hoffman as their advisor, he's still right.


Good to see that you're continuing to attack SISU, ACL and Higgs with equal vigour, btw, Mr. D.Advocate.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Well he has been a lot less active of late, but I think the majority of praise he garners is for what he's said in the past, before he was "working for Higgs". It's not impossible to imagine a scenario where their employees, should any browse this board, noticed his intelligence and coherence when discussing complicated financial matters and considered he could be a handy bloke to hire. It in no way invalidates what he said previous to working for Higgs, which is what's being implied with the "just my opinion-or is it" comment.


Even if it turned out he had been working for Higgs, ACL and Hoffman as their advisor, he's still right.


Good to see that you're continuing to attack SISU, ACL and Higgs with equal vigour, btw, Mr. D.Advocate.

You appear to be saying that he is less impartial now he has been working for Higgs than he was before he was working for Higgs?

Wouldn't really go that far myself, most of his stuff is very interesting and enlightening(though often overlooked when he dissects stuff that doesn't fit the majority view).

Just that and interest, no matter how small, has to be declared when commenting(by anyone, on any side) to be able to take a reasonable view on things.

 

[RPHunt]

Correct. If I said to you I had represented sisu in one discussion regarding advertising strategy in the local area what opinion would you form?

That you had agreed to walk around wearing a sandwich-board or post a few fly sheets for them.

 

[cloughie]

That much is indeed true.

However tbf not quite sure where this thread's been going the past couple of hours, or why!

quite clear really Grendel tries to portray anyone who wants sisu to go and sell to an owner who has at least some interest in the football team, will not be accepted by the fool as he wishes for a community based business to fail ( Higgs charity supports LOCAL sports kids and the council which we as cov rate payers pay money to )

he would love it for it to fail so a hedge fund who wish to take OUR club & team out of OUR CITY. He would 'LOVE IT' to fail as the council have different views regarding politics to himself.

Grendel just wants to derail the council and ACL regardless that the people of Coventry will loose out if the Ricoh ever failed.

Yet he is so dumb that he thinks that Sisu strategy is the way forward

Lets get behind the GIVE sisu the Ricoh for free as he says lets see a massive community asset given to a hedge fund company who have no affiliation to Coventry or Coventry City FC

 

[Grendel]

quite clear really Grendel tries to portray anyone who wants sisu to go and sell to an owner who has at least some interest in the football team, will not be accepted by the fool as he wishes for a community based business to fail ( Higgs charity supports LOCAL sports kids and the council which we as cov rate payers pay money to )

he would love it for it to fail so a hedge fund who wish to take OUR club & team out of OUR CITY. He would 'LOVE IT' to fail as the council have different views regarding politics to himself.

Grendel just wants to derail the council and ACL regardless that the people of Coventry will loose out if the Ricoh ever failed.

Yet he is so dumb that he thinks that Sisu strategy is the way forward

Lets get behind the GIVE sisu the Ricoh for free as he says lets see a massive community asset given to a hedge fund company who have no affiliation to Coventry or Coventry City FC

Ok please explain to me how the tax payer benefits from the Ricoh. Give a tangible example of that in practice.

 

[Spionkop]

Jeez, how some of you love the conspiracy theories. Oldskyblue58 provides a bit of sanity on this site. Balanced and couched in civilised language, he makes an effort at bringing quite complex financial issues to us in everyday terms. My tongue in cheek remark was implying even he might be losing his cool just a little in the middle of all this Sisu madness. Lighten up. And concentrate your efforts at keeping the team in the city.

 

[duffer]

Ok please explain to me how the tax payer benefits from the Ricoh. Give a tangible example of that in practice.

Well the maths are a bit tricky, but I'd start off with the number of jobs and the tax that they pay. And then add the savings assuming at least a proportion of those might be claiming benefits instead. Plus any corporation tax, rent, and rates. And there's the more intangible money that visitors to the Ricoh for footy and exhibitions push through the local economy. But other than that, there's probably bugger all and we should just give it away, eh.

Talk about a daft question!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well the maths are a bit tricky, but I'd start off with the number of jobs and the tax that they pay. And then add the savings assuming at least a proportion of those might be claiming benefits instead. Plus any corporation tax, rent, and rates. And there's the more intangible money that visitors to the Ricoh for footy and exhibitions push through the local economy. But other than that, there's probably bugger all and we should just give it away, eh.

Talk about a daft question!

The tax they pay wouldn't even make a dent in the £14m loan they've just had.

PS - the visitors to the Ricoh for the 'footy' [cringe] are there to see CCFC, not ACL.

 

[Grendel]

Well the maths are a bit tricky, but I'd start off with the number of jobs and the tax that they pay. And then add the savings assuming at least a proportion of those might be claiming benefits instead. Plus any corporation tax, rent, and rates. And there's the more intangible money that visitors to the Ricoh for footy and exhibitions push through the local economy. But other than that, there's probably bugger all and we should just give it away, eh.

Talk about a daft question!

So are you saying the taxpayer receives the income generated by the Ricoh? Really? You are talking national taxation.

Employment? Are all the employees Coventry based? Doubt it.

I specifically asked how does the stadium actually benefit the local taxpayer by being a community asset.

All the comments made by you would apply if it owned privately or publically.

How do the people if Coventry specifically benefit by it being in public ownership!

 

[dongonzalos]

Well OSB isn't quite the impartial witness that we all thought he was now is he?

Surely if you are a Coventry fan, it is impossible to be completely impartial?

 

[psgm1]

So the council as part owner doesn't receive profits from the arena? Therefore additional income for the council meaning more money for public services. Sisu get all the money, Joy can buy more tacky jewellery and trinkets! Sisu didn't have the opportunity years ago to buy the arena? Think you will find they did but didn't want to ! Also the judicial review - they were happy for the council to buy the mortgage when they were involved, yet all of a sudden when the council do it themselves all of a sudden it's illegal! What competition have they damaged? As far as I know there isn't another League 1 team in Coventry, but as you claim to be so erudite and no one else is on your intellectual level (sniggering at the ridiculousness of that concept - Grendel clever LOL) I might be mistaken.! Earth to Grendel

 

[grego_gee]

The worst thing is that PWKH has bought OSB!
His motive may have been to control him and gag the observations that he was making on this forum as much as give him work.
Is he really such an exceptional accountant? there are plenty of others out there to choose from. Didn't PWKH also try to sign up Gillfoyl? It all smells very bad to me!
Amazing that anybody on here tries to condone it!
Imagine if SISU had paid him off. The phrase "SISU rent boy" has been used here at the drop of a hat!

imp:

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

You appear to be saying that he is less impartial now he has been working for Higgs than he was before he was working for Higgs?

Wouldn't really go that far myself, most of his stuff is very interesting and enlightening(though often overlooked when he dissects stuff that doesn't fit the majority view).

Just that and interest, no matter how small, has to be declared when commenting(by anyone, on any side) to be able to take a reasonable view on things.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. Doesn't mean he's less interesting and valuable, but he certainly is less objective if he's working for one of the parties involved: he ceases to be a commentator on the sidelines if he's actually participating.

However, nothing he said before working for Higgs is invalidated and doesn't require an interest declaring-in no way was he disingenuous as he didn't have an interest to declare yet, "just an opinion". When he did have an interest to declare, he declared it. Just I missed it, but it does explain why he's quieter perhaps..