If SISU buy Limited (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Noggin
- Start date
I think they would liquidate LTD then lease is down the Pan.
duffer
Well-Known Member
This is the bit that confuses me.
As I understand it, the administrator's duty is to try to keep the company running as a going concern, if possible. I can't see how he can do that if he allows CCFC Ltd to be liquidated when there are (supposedly) other offers on the table.
If Ltd isn't liquidated, and SISU buy it, then they're still on the hook for the lease, surely. And that's where this all started. Hmm.
Couldn't they just have liquidated instead of putting limited in admin in the first place if they were going to do that?
Also if sisu buy limited at full value to stop others are they going to have to put in 70 million ? while much of it goes back to themselves, doesn't it make holdings debt free? It's going to be giving holdings 44million right?
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
The lease is the issue, ACL will say its x numbers if yrs long, sisu will say it died on the 21st march.... But I'm sure ACL have the say on if it is! The Clubs not for sale but what if some one puts in say a silly bid for holdings? What will they do then, I'm sure if its in the region of their investment they won't be saying no..... Over to the administrator.......
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
<p>
If ltd is liquidated then what will happen to the golden share?
If ltd is liquidated then what will happen to the golden share?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
The football league will give it to holdings.
bigfatronssba
Well-Known Member
<p>
That would be a slight assumption. Alternatively the league may decide that ccfc no longer exist?
That would be a slight assumption. Alternatively the league may decide that ccfc no longer exist?
grego_gee
New Member
Good question that! What will it take to be free of the lease? Is administration enough?
imp:
grego_gee
New Member
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Yeah, I tend to agree the latest antics are largely about breaking the lease. The way its being done is so unsavory.
I also think the FL have been made to look like mugs.
I also think the FL have been made to look like mugs.
I think one possibillity is a 'creditors voluntary liquidation'. I am unsure if that simply require a mjority of the creditors accept or if it requires the acceptance of all creditors.
This would probably be the best outcome for the club providing:
- FL grants the GS to Holdings
- Sisu are prepared to write off the £10m owed to them/ARVO
- The club pay ACL their £650k
- The club/sisu pays all cost of administration.
Then the lease will be forever gone - a new will have to be written/signed if the club is to stay at the Ricoh for either 3 years or more.
The club would come out of administration with no points penalty.
The accounts could be signed off and expedited - end of transfer embargo.
This would probably be the best outcome for the club providing:
- FL grants the GS to Holdings
- Sisu are prepared to write off the £10m owed to them/ARVO
- The club pay ACL their £650k
- The club/sisu pays all cost of administration.
Then the lease will be forever gone - a new will have to be written/signed if the club is to stay at the Ricoh for either 3 years or more.
The club would come out of administration with no points penalty.
The accounts could be signed off and expedited - end of transfer embargo.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Either scenario is a possibility, who knows what the football league will do. However the players reg, contracts academy etc is in holdings, the league grants and other clubs payments have gone to holdings must hold some credence? Who knows.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Sorry misread that, I missed the "says" & " t' "
SkyBlueBlood
Member
Surely because Ltd went into administration the lease would be null and void as there is a clause in most contracts stating that insolvency cancels the contract.
James Smith
Well-Known Member
Suspect that the FL would have taken back the Golden Share and there is a far greater chance that they might not have given it back to Holdings than just Admin.
SkyBlueBlood
Member
How can SISU retaining control be good in any form.
I said the best outcome - it's a relative term.
But actually it is the second best - the best would be if a buyer would pay sisu back the £30m or so they have put in over the years. Sadly I don't think this will happen.
And as I also don't think sisu will give in to any kind of pressure that the fans or any other stakeholder can put up, then we may as well realize they are here till they decide for themself it's time to go.
In that case the best scenario is where the club get out of admin and transfer embargo as soon as possible - AND continue to play at the Ricoh is the 'best' outcome for the club.
There will be (many) others who think differently.
SkyBlueBlood
Member
We have been here before (2007) and to have SISU running (sorry should say ruining) the club is no saviour it is just a slower and more painful death. SISU will have no choice if new owners purchase Ltd and are given the golden share / the go ahead to play in League 1 as SISU would be starved of income so would have to sell cheap or just lose the lot which they could not justify to their secret investers.
BackRoomRummermill
Well-Known Member
I cannot see this happening at all
How much will a new owner have to pay for ltd? There are £69m debts owed to other ccfc companies. £10m is secured by ARVO. How much would a third party have to pay?
If sisu don't agree with the outcome, then the club will exit administration with a 'none company volantary agreement' - that will mean starting the next season at minus 15 points (or worse).
In addition sisu claim beneficial ownership and will sue the 'new owners' for damages. What investor will risk that?
I don't think this will happen.
It is very easy to play monopoly with other peoples money, but usually there is a reason these investors have their welth - they are very reluctant to part with it!
Sub
Well-Known Member
if thats there plan Godiva and SISU do not agree and start the season with -15 points that is not going help the club in any way atall, relegation possiblity no fans no money for FFP the club will be well and truly fecked and SISU will end up with the bill and own a 3rd division team
what we see the administrators duty as , and what the administrator ends up doing can be two very different things..
in my experience, and i suspect in many cases, an administrator will liquidate and sell the assets of worth from within a failing company ( again in my experience this is often back to the previous owner under some new guise of some new company they have set up ).
At the very least, this is supposed to raise capital to pay back the creditors, in reality the sale of assets is just treated as realised revenue for the business, and usually just covers the exorbitant administrator fees ( which the directors would have had to pay anyway )
outcome - the owners of the failing company walk away from all the debt , while still retaining the assets they desire, and the administrator has a nice big cheque! everyone is a winner.. well , when i say everyone , i mean the owners of the failed company & the administrator ( employed by the failing company )! everyone else can go spin...
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if thats there plan Godiva and SISU do not agree and start the season with -15 points that is not going help the club in any way atall, relegation possiblity no fans no money for FFP the club will be well and truly fecked and SISU will end up with the bill and own a 3rd division team
So if you read my posts in this thread from start you will understand why I think sisu staying in control and getting us out of administration while paying the debts owed to ACL - AND negotiate a new lease (3yr or more) is the best realistic outcome for the club.
Sub
Well-Known Member
duffer
Well-Known Member
It's a good analysis, and a potentially worrying outcome. I think the two things that might stand against it in this case are whether that would be subject to challenge in court by ACL as unfairly prejudiced against them, and how the league would regard CCFC Ltd being liquidated.
If the FL see liquidation as being the end of the club, then we're down to Evostik League 2 or something. Not an attractive prospect to SISU, I'd venture.
(Although I think I could probably play for them at that level.)
duffer
Well-Known Member
Fwiw, I think the way that it will end us that SISU will do a deal to sell Holdings & Ltd to one of the proposed investors for an undisclosed sum. I reckon 5 -10m cold hard cash would encourage them to cut their losses and run.
Despite TF's pronouncements it's hard to see SISU in this for the long game - the numbers and risk don't stack up for building a new stadium (FL approval is by no means certain for starters), and they've p*ssed off too many fans to expect any great degree of support next season wherever they play. Obviously they'll never admit that they want to sell, because that would weaken their bargaining position.
Just mho, accept others will differ.
Despite TF's pronouncements it's hard to see SISU in this for the long game - the numbers and risk don't stack up for building a new stadium (FL approval is by no means certain for starters), and they've p*ssed off too many fans to expect any great degree of support next season wherever they play. Obviously they'll never admit that they want to sell, because that would weaken their bargaining position.
Just mho, accept others will differ.