Israel - Palestinian Conflict (29 Viewers)

[PVA]

No it isn't. It is dressed up as being concerned about new leadership. In reality there has been next to no criticism of the regime, historically and up until this point, with some even trying to make arguments (or inferring) that it is a bad thing they have been removed. There is little concern about new leadership coming in to other countries, and there are infinite posts about the orange man every day. It is very transparent.

I haven't seen a single post say it is a bad thing to remove Khamenei. What people are saying is that there needs to be a plan in place for it to be a success. And right now there isn't one.

Your desire to defend Trump is also very transparent.

 

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[Nick]

Let's face it, all of this anti war shite is nonsense for a lot of people in general. (Not so much on here) but you had the greens fella celebrating shit loads of Israelis being killed. Silent about 30k anti-regime people being killed but then it's back to it being bad that people are killed.

It's hard to keep up at which time people being killed warrants being bothered.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Some of you on this thread are completely lost. The ignorance about the history of Iran, and the latest regime is staggering.

The hatred for Trump and the Americans is outshining any sensible conversation here as well. Whilst their actions are pretty hardcore, because it was them that did it, it is hard to read between a lot of posts which are almost acting as if Khamenei was a good bloke and should have stayed on for a few shifts. It has very little to do with any (ordinarily fair) concerns about potential new leadership. It's quite transparent.

What do you expect the Iranian people to do? Despite some false claims and ignorance on here, their people were killed in the tens of thousands for standing up to the regime. Something many of you said nothing about. Of course it is going to be a mess.

Many of the people also too scared to criticise ever criticise Islam, of which the regime in Iran was a textbook example of some of the worst of it, are straight down the throats of a Christian as well. What a surprise.

I don’t get what you’re saying here

It’s abhorrent what has happened since the late 70’s in terms of women’s education and rights in Iran
It’s abhorrent that so many peaceful protesters were murdered by the regime recently anything from thousands to tens of thousands
If Israel and the USA can prove an imminent threat to their countries then prove it if not they have no business bombing a sovereign country and murdering civilians. It’s quite simple
Sure show by how well democracy works and how welll freedom works that the way their country is abhorrent but you don’t make peace through war.
War should be a last resort when all else fails as it comes with inhumanity
If you have to go to war you have to have a clear idea how it will end and what you are willing to sacrifice for that eventual outcome

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You seem more upset about people being killed in this offensive that was commissioned by Trump, than you were by 30x the amount of people (and the rest) being killed by the regime.

This is what I wrote on that at the time. One of my best friends was terrified over not knowing if his family in Iran were alive. It’s bizarre and untrue to say I wasn’t bothered about it. As I write there, some of his relatives working in universities there were nearly killed in Trump’s air strikes last year too.

It is possible to be opposed to both the Ayatollah and the US/Israel killing Iranians.

Some of his family were nearly killed in those bombings Trump/Israel ordered last year, now he doesn’t even know if they’re alive. It’s pretty terrifying.

As I said, he feels pretty certain it will end with regime change.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I haven't seen a single post say it is a bad thing to remove Khamenei. What people are saying is that there needs to be a plan in place for it to be a success. And right now there isn't one.

Your desire to defend Trump is also very transparent.

What is it with the deflection? I haven't defended Trump.

As per usual, this is an attempt to focus on something else as there isn't a counter argument. The fact is that none of you wanted to know about Iran. When it has come up it has made you uncomfortable because you cannot criticise anything remotely Islamic. The fact it was Trump who went in is largely irrelevant, but because it was him, it is the only thing you can find yourselves able to talk about.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This is what I wrote on that at the time. One of my best friends was terrified over not knowing if his family in Iran were alive. It’s bizarre and untrue to say I wasn’t bothered about it. As I write there, some of his relatives working in universities there were nearly killed in Trump’s air strikes last year too.

It is possible to be opposed to both the Ayatollah and the US/Israel killing Iranians.

Yes, it is possible to be opposed to both. That is not what you have been doing though.

Your weight of outrage has been specifically at Trump, as it was with your post today.

 

[SBT]

I would say it’s a bit early for this kind of headloss, but who knows which part of the world he’s even in at this point

 

[Nick]

This is what I wrote on that at the time. One of my best friends was terrified over not knowing if his family in Iran were alive. It’s bizarre and untrue to say I wasn’t bothered about it. As I write there, some of his relatives working in universities there were nearly killed in Trump’s air strikes last year too.

It is possible to be opposed to both the Ayatollah and the US/Israel killing Iranians.

to be fair I remember this being said!

 

[PVA]

What is it with the deflection? I haven't defended Trump.

As per usual, this is an attempt to focus on something else as there isn't a counter argument. The fact is that none of you wanted to know about Iran. When it has come up it has made you uncomfortable because you cannot criticise anything remotely Islamic. The fact it was Trump who went in is largely irrelevant, but because it was him, it is the only thing you can find yourselves able to talk about.

What are you on about? I said Khamenei is (was) an abhorrent piece of shit who deserved to die.

And in what possible way is the fact it was Trump going in irrelevant, he's the one that decided to do it so of course it's fucking relevant

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

What are you on about? I said Khamenei is (was) an abhorrent piece of shit who deserved to die.

And in what possible way is the fact it was Trump going in irrelevant, he's the one that decided to do it so of course it's fucking relevant

You are more outraged by Trump than Khamenei. No amount of pretending to not understand is going to change that.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, it is possible to be opposed to both. That is not what you have been doing though.

Your weight of outrage has been specifically at Trump, as it was with your post today.

He has initiated a war on a country that didn’t attack, and wasn’t going to attack, his own one. Already he is responsible for over 1000 civilian deaths-I think some outrage at doing that is warranted.

The friend I wrote about is a child of refugees who fled the revolution-he badly wants regime change. What he doesn’t want is the US and Israel dictating who the new regime should be, or those countries to be bombing his own. That again seems warranted.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

to be fair I remember this being said!

It’s been written that nobody wanted to know anything about Iran. I speak about it with this guy most weeks.

 

[duffer]

Quoting somebody elses own words is offensive but not the actual person saying it?

This is the issue when people try hard to be offended they don't seem to know what and why they are offended.

Oh come off it, you know it was meant to be offensive, and if you don't you're even thicker than I thought.

So grow a fucking pair and own it mate - this, "oh it wasn't meant to offend", with a laughing emoji is just a pathetic cop-out. If you say it, mean it, I've got some respect for that.

And you also know you were just being a snarky twat before because you couldn't answer the question without catching yourself out.

So yeah, anyway, you wanted to offend and you managed it. Good for you.

So, for now, please fuck off will you mate, you've got your cheap rise, but it's a bit tedious talking to a snarky prick who's only defence is cheap insults. If you want to actually discuss stuff I'm happy to try to engage, but you're just a waste of time at the moment and I've got better things to do.

 

[chiefdave]

There is little concern about new leadership coming in to other countries, and there are infinite posts about the orange man every day. It is very transparent.

Isn't this the point people are making though? Good, bad or horrific neither the US or ourselves should be getting involved. Even more so when the track record of doing so is terrible and it is seemingly done on a whim with no short term plan let alone a long term plan.

As for Trump he has spent years banging on about how incompetent the Democrats were that they'd lead the US into war in Iran, that US soldiers shouldn't be put at risk in middle eastern conflicts, that the US is not worlds police and that its down to other countries to deal with their own issues. With that in mind surely you can see why he is open to criticism at this point?

 

[PVA]

You are more outraged by Trump than Khamenei. No amount of pretending to not understand is going to change that.

It's almost as if it's possible to think they're both awful cunts, in very different ways.

I'm glad Khamenei is dead. I wish Trump had some sort of plan. I wish he wasn't working with a war criminal.

I don't think you'll find many in here who could disagree with any of those things.

 

[wingy]

It's all about the Dollar.

 

[Grendel]

It is funny that once I said I was a Christian, people start to question it and make fun,
but whenever anyone criticises any other religions for there beliefs it's different matter.
Goes to show.

Yeah interesting that

 

[Nick]

Oh come off it, you know it was meant to be offensive, and if you don't you're even thicker than I thought.

So grow a fucking pair and own it mate - this, "oh it wasn't meant to offend", with a laughing emoji is just a pathetic cop-out. If you say it, mean it, I've got some respect for that.

And you also know you were just being a snarky twat before because you couldn't answer the question without catching yourself out.

So yeah, anyway, you wanted to offend and you managed it. Good for you.

So, for now, please fuck off will you mate, you've got your cheap rise, but it's a bit tedious talking to a snarky prick who's only defence is cheap insults. If you want to actually discuss stuff I'm happy to try to engage, but you're just a waste of time at the moment and I've got better things to do.

What exactly are you offended about? Me pointing out somebody else defending being friends with sex offenders?

What the fuck are you offended about here? Do you even have a clue? It's weird.

 

[PVA]

Fair play to the Spanish PM:

"This is how humanity's great disasters start ... You cannot play Russian roulette with the destiny of millions."

"The position of the Spanish government can be summarised in four words: 'No to the war,'" Sanchez continued, adding that the stance was "consistent and coherent" with its approach to the conflicts in Ukraine and in Gaza.

"We're not going to be complicit in something that is bad for the world, nor contrary to our values and interests, ‌simply to avoid reprisals from someone," the prime minister said, in an apparent reference to Trump's trade threats.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

He has initiated a war on a country that didn’t attack, and wasn’t going to attack, his own one. Already he is responsible for over 1000 civilian deaths-I think some outrage at doing that is warranted.

The friend I wrote about is a child of refugees who fled the revolution-he badly wants regime change. What he doesn’t want is the US and Israel dictating who the new regime should be, or those countries to be bombing his own. That again seems warranted.

Isn't this the point people are making though? Good, bad or horrific neither the US or ourselves should be getting involved. Even more so when the track record of doing so is terrible and it is seemingly done on a whim with no short term plan let alone a long term plan.

As for Trump he has spent years banging on about how incompetent the Democrats were that they'd lead the US into war in Iran, that US soldiers shouldn't be put at risk in middle eastern conflicts, that the US is not worlds police and that its down to other countries to deal with their own issues. With that in mind surely you can see why he is open to criticism at this point?

It would be a lot more believable if every other post wasn't about Trump. Yes, he is open for some deserved criticism, but the context has been lost. This Iranian regime have killed tens of thousands of their own people, and what has been going on there has really been swept under the carpet. Certainly if you compare it to other comparable shit shows across the world. Unfortunately, it often reads as if it is not a good thing the leadership are no longer in charge by some of you on here. It also reads as if what has gone on there is less important than what Trump has decided to do - which it isn't. It can be a separate thing to be concerned about what a new leadership will look like too, which I agree is a valid position to take. It is pretty obvious however, that this is also being used as a smokescreen.

 

[Grendel]

Fair play to the Spanish PM:

is this the same Spain that is the one country whose refused to even try and meet NATO defence spending commitments and capped its spend at 2%?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It would be a lot more believable if every other post wasn't about Trump. Yes, he is open for some deserved criticism, but the context has been lost. This Iranian regime have killed tens of thousands of their own people, and what has been going on there has really been swept under the carpet. Certainly if you compare it to other comparable shit shows across the world. Unfortunately, it often reads as if it is not a good thing the leadership are no longer in charge by some of you on here. It also reads as if what has gone on there is less important than what Trump has decided to do - which it isn't. It can be a separate thing to be concerned about what a new leadership will look like too, which I agree is a valid position to take. It is pretty obvious however, that this is also being used as a smokescreen.

There is no smokescreen in pointing out that there is no clear successor to the current regime. The leading contenders appear to be Reza Pahlavi, son of the former shah, and the Iranian Mujahadeen, who are both based abroad and both opposed to each other. Both have some support in Iran, but neither has enough to be considered unifying. Domestic political opponents of the regime are all in prison and will either have already been killed by the regime or by air strikes. No Iranian I know wanted this regime to stay in power.

You will consider this deflection, but I tried finding your condemnation of Benjamin Netanyahu’s murder of over 60,000 Palestinians as his regime speaks of the desire to ethnically cleanse the region and the UN considers that Israel were attempting a genocide. I have my own opinions on why you haven’t spoken out on that.

 

[Grendel]

They aren't Christians then, they just believe in Christian values.

So I assume people who practice Islam believe it in its purist form?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

So I assume people who practice Islam believe it in its purist form?

Dunno I'm not Muslim

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not quite
God breathed written by mostly men

But doesn't that still make it the word of God? It may have been written down by men, but what they wrote was what God told them wasn't it?

 

[Grendel]

Dunno I'm not Muslim

You’ve stated the bible is the word of God. Are you a devout Christian then and believe it in its fundamental form?

 

[Grendel]

But doesn't that still make it the word of God? It may have been written down by men, but what they wrote was what God told them wasn't it?

Does this apply to all Muslims as well?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You’ve stated the bible is the word of God. Are you a devout Christian then and believe it in its fundamental form?

Yes I am a devout Christian I go every Sunday and have various Church leaders in my family.

 

[Grendel]

Yes I am a devout Christian I go every Sunday and have various Church leaders in my family.

So you follow every teaching in the bible? You are opposed - for example - to homosexuality and consider it a sin?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

So you follow every teaching in the bible? You are opposed - for example - to homosexuality and consider it a sin?

Very probing questions !

 

[Grendel]

Very probing questions !

Not really as you’ve raised the issue? You have to oppose gay marriage as that was the view of the Clergy in the House of Lords?

If you aren’t lying you definitely oppose people of the same sex being married

it’s interesting isn’t it?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Not really as you’ve raised the issue? You have to oppose gay marriage as that was the view of the Clergy in the House of Lords?

If you aren’t lying you definitely oppose people of the same sex being married

it’s interesting isn’t it?

I never brought up homosexuality! Very probing! And very inappropriate!

 

[Grendel]

I never brought up homosexuality! Very probing! And very inappropriate!

How is it inappropriate? You’ve said all Christians believe the bible is the word of God?

You really are looking pretty desperate now

 

[Ccfcisparks]

How is it inappropriate? You’ve said all Christians believe the bible is the word of God?

You really are looking pretty desperate now

Please stop embarrassing me on this thread G Dawg! Show mercy

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

There is no smokescreen in pointing out that there is no clear successor to the current regime. The leading contenders appear to be Reza Pahlavi, son of the former shah, and the Iranian Mujahadeen, who are both based abroad and both opposed to each other. Both have some support in Iran, but neither has enough to be considered unifying. Domestic political opponents of the regime are all in prison and will either have already been killed by the regime or by air strikes. No Iranian I know wanted this regime to stay in power.

You will consider this deflection, but I tried finding your condemnation of Benjamin Netanyahu’s murder of over 60,000 Palestinians as his regime speaks of the desire to ethnically cleanse the region and the UN considers that Israel were attempting a genocide. I have my own opinions on why you haven’t spoken out on that.

As I said, the future of Iran is a very valid talking point and concern. It is not however, a substitute for what has gone on or there, and it is being used as a smokescreen to have a go at Trump. I am not defending him either, I just find it ridiculous that the whole world did not give a shit until the US started doing something, and suddenly there is more outrage towards that, than there is a regime where heavy Islamic law was applied and many tens of thousands of people lost their lives trying to protest and free the country from it.

Regarding Israel, you keep going there and I do see it as a deflection, but it can be relevant. I have got no time for Israel or what they are doing/have done. Netanyahu is rightly wanted by International Crown Court. The actions of them, and the Iranian regime to me are more or less equally abhorrent, and I have said that many times that the fighting needs to stop. If Netanyahu got overthrown, you would be jumping for joy (as would I), not worrying so much about who was coming next as if it might be better to leave him in charge. I guess that qualifies my point quite nicely.