Israel - Palestinian Conflict (21 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Scary our allies behaving lawlessly and opens up every excuse for China and Russia to do the same with impunity

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Scary our allies behaving lawlessly and opens up every excuse for China and Russia to do the same with impunity

Forget that, I have real concerns that the integrity of the FIFA Peace Prize is under threat.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Forget that, I have real concerns that the integrity of the FIFA Peace Prize is under threat.

Good point

 

[SKYBLUES90]

Got to say it’s very on brand that the year that we get promoted back into the premier League WW3 kicks off and Trump drops a nuke to end all civilisation.

 

[SBT]

Do Iran believe in international law?

Iran wasn’t attacking anyone? They state sponsor Hamas and Hezbollah FFS

“I don’t see any major impacts to the global economy” wasn’t even 30 minutes before this post!

 

[Grendel]

“I don’t see any major impacts to the global economy” wasn’t even 30 minutes before this post!

Are you OK? You seem to be making strange incoherent statements? So these state sponsored terrorist groups are only funded because of Israels actions in Gaza?

 

[SBT]

Are you OK? You seem to be making strange incoherent statements? So these state sponsored terrorist groups are only funded because of Israels actions in Gaza?

There might be a slight connection there…

Keep going - you’re doing a great job of proving to everyone how little you care about the Middle East!

 

[Grendel]

There might be a slight connection there…

Keep going - you’re doing a great job of proving to everyone how little you care about the Middle East!

Have you been removed from the Horoscope at the Basildon?

 

[SBT]

Have you been removed from the Horoscope at the Basildon?

Full house!

 

[Grendel]

Stamer should start deleting his historic posts

 

[Grendel]

Still good to know some cheeky cheeky very serious ex politicians support the SBT voices on here

 

[CCFCSteve]

It's an easy one if you believe in upholding international law, and condemning those who breach it.

It's also easy to separate out attack from defence. If you're dropping bombs on someone, then by definition you're attacking them!

Iran wasn't actually attacking anyone with missiles or drones until Israel and America decided, in the middle of negotiations no less, to initiate a first strike. If you can't condemn that, then like Starmer, you can't pretend to genuinely believe in international law.

Firstly, just to reiterate, I’ve said we should stay out of the war. However, we are dealing with a regime that themselves have consistently ignored/flouted international law, that funds proxies across the region/world against our interests and safety, randomly called for Death to England last year, was involved in 20 thwarted terror attacks on UK soil (including us arresting several Iranians under terror laws last year) and not forgetting recently slaughtered up to 30k of its own population for holding peaceful demonstrations.

So am I surprised Starmer didn’t condemn USA actions, not really. As for me, if someone wants us/others to respect international law in relation to them, maybe they should try following it themselves sometime. The U.K. hasn’t done anything wrong in this so not quite sure why some want to still try to kick off about it.

Edit - and before it’s asked, I’m as concerned about what happens next as anyone else

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Firstly, just to reiterate, I’ve said we should stay out of the war. However, we are dealing with a regime that themselves have consistently ignored/flouted international law, that funds proxies across the region/world against our interests and safety, randomly called for Death to England last year, was involved in 20 thwarted terror attacks on UK soil (including us arresting several Iranians under terror laws last year) and not forgetting recently slaughtered up to 30k of its own population for holding peaceful demonstrations.

So am I surprised Starmer didn’t condemn USA actions, not really. As for me, if someone wants us/others to respect international law in relation to them, maybe they should try following it themselves sometime. The U.K. hasn’t done anything wrong in this so not quite sure why some want to still try to kick off about it.

Edit - and before it’s asked, I’m as concerned about what happens next as anyone else

We’re allied to Israel which has done things just as reprehensible. The US as it happens aren’t even obeying their own laws never mind international ones as far as these attacks are concerned.

If we are offered a choice between Israel and Iran, the correct answer is neither of them.

 

[fatso]

Scary our allies behaving lawlessly and opens up every excuse for China and Russia to do the same with impunity

War doesn't take place in a court room.

Only the incredibly naive bleat about international law.

Russia took no notice of international law when it invaded Ukraine, and China is only prevented from invading Taiwan by the military build up in the area. To think its international law thats preventing atrocities is rediculous.

 

[CCFCSteve]

We’re allied to Israel which has done things just as reprehensible. The US as it happens aren’t even obeying their own laws never mind international ones as far as these attacks are concerned.

If we are offered a choice between Israel and Iran, the correct answer is neither of them.

And that’s currently our position even though we’re allied to US and Israel

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And that’s currently our position even though we’re allied to US and Israel

Starmer’s comments don’t seem to reflect that.

 

[duffer]

Firstly, just to reiterate, I’ve said we should stay out of the war. However, we are dealing with a regime that themselves have consistently ignored/flouted international law, that funds proxies across the region/world against our interests and safety, randomly called for Death to England last year, was involved in 20 thwarted terror attacks on UK soil (including us arresting several Iranians under terror laws last year) and not forgetting recently slaughtered up to 30k of its own population for holding peaceful demonstrations.

So am I surprised Starmer didn’t condemn USA actions, not really. As for me, if someone wants us/others to respect international law in relation to them, maybe they should try following it themselves sometime. The U.K. hasn’t done anything wrong in this so not quite sure why some want to still try to kick off about it.

Edit - and before it’s asked, I’m as concerned about what happens next as anyone else

I'd contend the U.K. is doing something wrong right now by failing to condemn an illegal war, one we've now been drawn into a de facto support of.

You can try to thread the needle, as Starmer is, by saying our bases are only being used by the US for 'defensive' purposes, but that defence involves bombing Iran.

Again. Either a war is illegal or it isn't.

If Iran was offering us, or Israel, or America an imminent threat, then there's a legitimate right to self defence. But this wasn't the case; in fact there were negotiations in progress in which Oman (leading the negotiations) said Iran were clearly offering to eliminate the possibility of them creating a nuclear weapon.

However, it's almost as if Israel and the U.S. don't want a negotiated settlement with Iran, and as soon as there's a chance of any agreement they need to start another war.

If you're surprised that people are "kicking off" about it, that probably points to a difference in values. I believe in the law and in exhausting all diplomatic avenues before engaging in something that will destroy countless innocent lives. On the other side are those who think might makes right and we should just go along with it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'd contend the U.K. is doing something wrong right now by failing to condemn an illegal war, one we've now been drawn into a de facto support of.

You can try to thread the needle, as Starmer is, by saying our bases are only being used by the US for 'defensive' purposes, but that defence involves bombing Iran.

Again. Either a war is illegal or it isn't.

If Iran was offering us, or Israel, or America an imminent threat, then there's a legitimate right to self defence. But this wasn't the case; in fact there were negotiations in progress in which Oman (leading the negotiations) said Iran were clearly offering to eliminate the possibility of them creating a nuclear weapon.

However, it's almost as if Israel and the U.S. don't want a negotiated settlement with Iran, and as soon as there's a chance of any agreement they need to start another war.

If you're surprised that people are "kicking off" about it, that probably points to a difference in values. I believe in the law and in exhausting all diplomatic avenues before engaging in something that will destroy countless innocent lives. On the other side are those who think might makes right and we should just go along with it.

Ironically all this has done now is show that if you want to be left alone by the US, you need some nukes pronto. If Iran really had them ‘oven ready’ as the US keep insisting, there would be no attacks.

The truth is that it’s been claimed for literally decades that Iran is close to a nuclear weapon. They never have been. Obama’s nuclear deal with them was working well and was popular even in Iran. Then an orange moron gets in and rips it up before holding a gun to their heads to ‘make a deal’.

It’s absolutely terrible foreign policy.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Ironically all this has done now is show that if you want to be left alone by the US, you need some nukes pronto. If Iran really had them ‘oven ready’ as the US keep insisting, there would be no attacks.

The truth is that it’s been claimed for literally decades that Iran is close to a nuclear weapon. They never have been. Obama’s nuclear deal with them was working well and was popular even in Iran. Then an orange moron gets in and rips it up before holding a gun to their heads to ‘make a deal’.

It’s absolutely terrible foreign policy.

I was thinking that there’s no way they’d use those 2000lb bombs if Iran could land one in Chicago
But then god is on our side isn’t he?
Prefer talking things through or if necessary playing football
Absolute shit show
Bomb a country to the Middle Ages to make peace crock of shit

 

[duffer]

War doesn't take place in a court room.

Only the incredibly naive bleat about international law.

Russia took no notice of international law when it invaded Ukraine, and China is only prevented from invading Taiwan by the military build up in the area. To think its international law thats preventing atrocities is rediculous.

Only the incredibly stupid think that the law isn't important and that breaking or ignoring it doesn't have consequences.

In a world where might makes right, you can look forward to a lot more wars, and a huge increase in smaller, less stable states looking to protect themselves against bigger ones with ever more deadly weapons and asymmetrical tactics.

It's in our own interest to support international law and diplomacy. In fact it's in everyone's best interest.

 

[PVA]

If Iran was offering us, or Israel, or America an imminent threat, then there's a legitimate right to self defence. But this wasn't the case;

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, but this bit is a difficult balancing act now.

You're correct that obviously there was no imminent threat to the UK from Iran before this started. But now that it has started, and not by us of course, Iran have attacked our bases and so we do have an element of self defence.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I'd contend the U.K. is doing something wrong right now by failing to condemn an illegal war, one we've now been drawn into a de facto support of.

You can try to thread the needle, as Starmer is, by saying our bases are only being used by the US for 'defensive' purposes, but that defence involves bombing Iran.

Again. Either a war is illegal or it isn't.

If Iran was offering us, or Israel, or America an imminent threat, then there's a legitimate right to self defence. But this wasn't the case; in fact there were negotiations in progress in which Oman (leading the negotiations) said Iran were clearly offering to eliminate the possibility of them creating a nuclear weapon.

However, it's almost as if Israel and the U.S. don't want a negotiated settlement with Iran, and as soon as there's a chance of any agreement they need to start another war.

If you're surprised that people are "kicking off" about it, that probably points to a difference in values. I believe in the law and in exhausting all diplomatic avenues before engaging in something that will destroy countless innocent lives. On the other side are those who think might makes right and we should just go along with it.

I respect your view/position duffer and I’ve always been one for negotiation first but for the list of reasons stated I’m not sure diplomatic channels work with a regime like Irans, certainly not in the long term.

It feels like U.S./Israel jumped the gun for their own reasons and probably partly to ensure as many of the individuals targeted were taken out, however, after Irans conduct over the past few years I’m not sure we wouldn’t have ended up in this position at some point in the not to distant future anyway.

I just hope the end result isn’t the shitshow we’ve seen elsewhere in the Middle East but only time will tell. I’m not a big fan of Starmer but think he has probably made the right calls on this to date

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I respect your view/position duffer and I’ve always been one for negotiation first but for the list of reasons stated I’m not sure diplomatic channels work with a regime like Irans, certainly not in the long term.

It feels like U.S./Israel jumped the gun for their own reasons and probably partly to ensure as many of the individuals targeted were taken out, however, after Irans conduct over the past few years I’m not sure we wouldn’t have ended up in this position at some point in the not to distant future anyway.

I just hope the end result isn’t the shitshow we’ve seen elsewhere in the Middle East but only time will tell. I’m not a big fan of Starmer but think he has probably made the right calls on this to date

The problem there Steve is that Obama showed that diplomacy was working with them as intended.

 

[duffer]

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, but this bit is a difficult balancing act now.

You're correct that obviously there was no imminent threat to the UK from Iran before this started. But now that it has started, and not by us of course, Iran have attacked our bases and so we do have an element of self defence.

That's absolutely fair, and I get that. For better or worse now, we've got to protect our own citizens and armed forces in the area.

However, that doesn't stop us calling out an illegal act and requesting that all sides resume negotiations and put in place a ceasefire.

 

[duffer]

I respect your view/position duffer and I’ve always been one for negotiation first but for the list of reasons stated I’m not sure diplomatic channels work with a regime like Irans, certainly not in the long term.

It feels like U.S./Israel jumped the gun for their own reasons and probably partly to ensure as many of the individuals targeted were taken out, however, after Irans conduct over the past few years I’m not sure we wouldn’t have ended up in this position at some point in the not to distant future anyway.

I just hope the end result isn’t the shitshow we’ve seen elsewhere in the Middle East but only time will tell. I’m not a big fan of Starmer but think he has probably made the right calls on this to date

I hear you, and I respect your point of view too mate. I'm not sure that Starmer couldn't have done more, and that he still couldn't, but he's in a tight spot now, for sure. I am slightly encouraged that he seems clear that he does not intend us to get drawn into it further - here's hoping.

The one thing I would say is that it's unlikely now that anyone will trust either the US under Trump, or Israel, to negotiate in good faith.

It seems that the neutral party in this, Oman, were clear that Iran was willing to cede to demands with regard to nuclear weapons. And yet Israel and the US attacked them anyway.

For all that Iran is in the hands of a detestable regime, this hideous, destabilising mess is all the doing of Trump and Israel.

 

[Ian1779]

Netanyahu and trump warmongers especially the former

War criminals you mean.

 

[Grendel]

This is a uk based organisation - a spokesman on five live from it says there were no protesters killed, it’s more democratic than the Uk and the government allows everyone - men and women to freely act as they want

Ayatollah Khamenei died standing on the right side of history

IHRC condemns the cowardly, treacherous and illegal assassination by Israel yesterday of Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei.

www.ihrc.org.uk

 

[skybluetony176]

Well. It’s getting a right mess isn’t it. Trump, the president of piece and the great negotiator. Almost as if he’s full of shit.

 

[Grendel]

Well. It’s getting a right mess isn’t it. Trump, the president of piece and the great negotiator. Almost as if he’s full of shit.

Of greater significance Tonester are you a Blue Nose for the evening?

SBT needs to know your thoughts

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder if the right wing snowflakes who very publicly flounced of to Dubai are still enjoying the consequences of the right wing doctrine they treasure so much.

 

[CCFCSteve]

This is a uk based organisation - a spokesman on five live from it says there were no protesters killed, it’s more democratic than the Uk and the government allows everyone - men and women to freely act as they want

Ayatollah Khamenei died standing on the right side of history

IHRC condemns the cowardly, treacherous and illegal assassination by Israel yesterday of Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei.

www.ihrc.org.uk

‘Ayatollah Khamenei’s death will be mourned by freedom loving people all over the world’

I think any credibility was lost at this point if not before

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is a uk based organisation - a spokesman on five live from it says there were no protesters killed, it’s more democratic than the Uk and the government allows everyone - men and women to freely act as they want

Ayatollah Khamenei died standing on the right side of history

IHRC condemns the cowardly, treacherous and illegal assassination by Israel yesterday of Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Sayyid Ali Khamenei.

www.ihrc.org.uk

Wow not sure many would agree with that

 

[Nick]

Wow not sure many would agree with that

Fella from the greens probably would

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Fella from the greens probably would

Zack

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Fella from the greens probably would

Not particularly a fan of him, but he's said that the attacks on Iran were illegal and unprovoked, which is true in both cases.