Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

[Nick]

Which other countries have taken over parts of the UK? Last I checked all the residents of Sparkhill are still subject to British laws, they still have to pay taxes to the British government etc. Our economic output isn’t arbitrarily seized or taxed by another country, nor are our elections subject to what another country’s government says we can do. The actual terrorist you mention is running in an election run by the British government, not by another country.

Again, you do know what a colony actually is right? You’re not just parroting what you heard Jim Ratcliffe say the other week?

Again, I said areas and I said being colonised.

I didn't say it was seized, how much is sent back? Do you think the economy for that area will be completely different?

While of course there's UK laws country wide, I'm not saying everybody will be out breaking the laws, more that they will be living by a different set.

Political control, let's face it their votes are controlled.

You do know what areas being colonised means opposed to "the country is fully colonised". That's the difference.

I mentioned this in response to Pete when he acknowledged to get a vote in a certain area you have to do it in a different language, policies about a foreign country and draft in an extremist deputy leader, change policies.

Edit: I'm by no means saying I think my daughter is going to be made to wear a burkha tomorrow. Possibly her grandkids if things stay as they are though.

I don't think reform are the answer either. In fact, who is?

 

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[SBT]

Political control, let's face it their votes are controlled.

You do know what areas being colonised means opposed to "the country is fully colonised". That's the difference.

Controlled by who?

I’m not sure I do know what ‘areas being colonised’ means in this context. For somewhere to be colonised there has to be someone doing the colonising, and you’re yet to explain who specifically that is.

Yes, there are various groups of people looking to live by - maybe even impose - their own cultural and religious standards in this country. That is a problem, depending on your worldview. But by your own admission that is happening within the existing structures of British politics, not another country’s. If Sparkhill was truly being colonised there would be no need for colonisers to run for UK elections or set up a “parallel legal system” with no sovereignty over British law, they would just impose their own rules and be done with it.

 

[LarryGrayson]

Which other countries have taken over parts of the UK? Last I checked all the residents of Sparkhill are still subject to British laws, they still have to pay taxes to the British government etc. Our economic output isn’t arbitrarily seized or taxed by another country, nor are our elections subject to what another country’s government says we can do. The actual terrorist you mention is running in an election run by the British government, not by another country.

Again, you do know what a colony actually is right? You’re not just parroting what you heard Jim Ratcliffe say the other week?

more wtear facebook and twitter says hell be asking if youd live with one next

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Greens win by 4000 votes over Reform.

 

[skybluetony176]

Greens win by 4000 votes over Reform.

The silent majority has spoken.

 

[SomersetSB]

Labour beaten at their own game of relying and hoovering up the Muslim vote.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Wonder why shmmeee doesn't post on this thread anymore

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What's childish?

If a significant cohort can't read or speak English and need policies based on specific foreign affairs to get their attention. That's kind of the definition of colonised isn't it?

Where did you add the can’t read or speak English from ??
you just add layer on layer
Anyway look at any community in a foreign land they always keep traditions and language alive - we did when we colonised half the world

 

[Nick]

more wtear facebook and twitter says hell be asking if youd live with one next

You remembered the typos, well done.

I'm sure you will be flying around in people's Dms like usual.

 

[Nick]

Where did you add the can’t read or speak English from ??
you just add layer on layer
Anyway look at any community in a foreign land they always keep traditions and language alive - we did when we colonised half the world

If they could read or speak English it wouldn't be needed in different languages.

It's not really the same as the gurkha community in Nuneaton is it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Labour beaten at their own game of relying and hoovering up the Muslim vote.

I'm sure only brown people vote for anti right-wing parties.

 

[rob9872]

I'm sure only brown people vote for anti right-wing parties.

The constituency demographic is actually really interesting. In Gorton there is 54% non white and 39% muslim with many younger voters making up the electorate, in Denton there is 92% white and 25% of the electorate over 65. The numbers however skewed in Gortons favour by 55,000 to 26,000. How many of them actually voted in each I've not yet seen, but two bordering areas with such a difference, you can see why it has attracted such interest and the incumbent being placed 3rd is more than a bit of the usual midterm bloodied nose.

 

[PVA]

The constituency demographic is actually really interesting. In Gorton there is 54% non white and 39% muslim with many younger voters making up the electorate, in Denton there is 92% white and 25% of the electorate over 65. The numbers however skewed in Gortons favour by 55,000 to 26,000. How many of them actually voted in each I've not yet seen, but two bordering areas with such a difference, you can see why it has attracted such interest and the incumbent being placed 3rd is more than a bit of the usual midterm bloodied nose.

Haven't seen the actual numbers but saw something saying that yeah unsurprisingly Reform won in Denton and greens won in Gorton.

 

[PVA]

The Trump tribute act continues.

 

[chiefdave]

Labours vote share down 25% and Greens up 28% While the data won't give those sort of details not too outlandish to think the Labour vote moved on mass to the Greens.

How much of that was tactical voting to keep Reform out and how much of that was a result of Labour attempting to appeal to potential Conservative & Reform voters in the last couple of years? Probably a mix of the two.

Does seem to indicate that people will work to keep Reform out, which I guess isn't that much different to the just get the Conservatives out attitude at the last GE. But maybe an indication that the predictions on this thread that the Greens were finished when they elected Polanski leader may be wide of the mark. Of course a one off is very different from a GE campaign.

 

[chiefdave]

Probably worth putting the result up as a win by 4,000 sounds relatively close but in the context of the overall numbers not really close at all.

Green: 14,980 (+10,170)
Reform: 10,578 (+5,436)
Labour: 9,364 (-9,191)
Conservatives: 706 (-2,182)
Lib Dems: 653 (-746)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The constituency demographic is actually really interesting. In Gorton there is 54% non white and 39% muslim with many younger voters making up the electorate, in Denton there is 92% white and 25% of the electorate over 65. The numbers however skewed in Gortons favour by 55,000 to 26,000. How many of them actually voted in each I've not yet seen, but two bordering areas with such a difference, you can see why it has attracted such interest and the incumbent being placed 3rd is more than a bit of the usual midterm bloodied nose.

Over 70% of the vote went to the left or centre-left though, which is broadly in line with how that constituency has voted previously. Where I take issue with is the culture war nonsense that it's just 'the browns' who vote for these parties.

Listening to what the winning candidate is going on about, she's talking about how working hard 'used to get you something'. I don't see what that has to do with going all in on the Muslim vote. It's a sentiment I think a lot of us on here agree with.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

The constituency demographic is actually really interesting. In Gorton there is 54% non white and 39% muslim with many younger voters making up the electorate, in Denton there is 92% white and 25% of the electorate over 65. The numbers however skewed in Gortons favour by 55,000 to 26,000. How many of them actually voted in each I've not yet seen, but two bordering areas with such a difference, you can see why it has attracted such interest and the incumbent being placed 3rd is more than a bit of the usual midterm bloodied nose.

John Curtice saying that given 30% of the electorate is Muslim with high turnout, its an extraordinary performance by Reform to win a 30% share of the vote.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The constituency demographic is actually really interesting. In Gorton there is 54% non white and 39% muslim with many younger voters making up the electorate, in Denton there is 92% white and 25% of the electorate over 65. The numbers however skewed in Gortons favour by 55,000 to 26,000. How many of them actually voted in each I've not yet seen, but two bordering areas with such a difference, you can see why it has attracted such interest and the incumbent being placed 3rd is more than a bit of the usual midterm bloodied nose.

I love looking at underlying stats like this and was just googling myself. Think numbers available are 2021 and had already changed quite a bit in prior few years. I’m guessing across the ward Muslim population is now maybe around 33-35% (think it was 29% in 2021, 19% in 2011). Looks like Greens targeted them and that plus the threat of Reform got them out to vote en masse

Worryingly Reform and Greens and their fairytale divisive politics picked up 70%+. Hopefully this is just a mid term by election protest vote but I fear not.

 

[duffer]

Again, I said areas and I said being colonised.

I didn't say it was seized, how much is sent back? Do you think the economy for that area will be completely different?

While of course there's UK laws country wide, I'm not saying everybody will be out breaking the laws, more that they will be living by a different set.

Political control, let's face it their votes are controlled.

You do know what areas being colonised means opposed to "the country is fully colonised". That's the difference.

I mentioned this in response to Pete when he acknowledged to get a vote in a certain area you have to do it in a different language, policies about a foreign country and draft in an extremist deputy leader, change policies.

Edit: I'm by no means saying I think my daughter is going to be made to wear a burkha tomorrow. Possibly her grandkids if things stay as they are though.

I don't think reform are the answer either. In fact, who is?

Mate, please don't recycle this racist myth that your or my grandkids are going to have to become Muslims.

It's a literal racist trope, a fiction, perpetuated by the far right, people like the Reform candidate Matt Goodwin and his supporters like Tommy Robinson. Would you really want to associate yourself with them?

Their game is the same as it's always been, sow hate and division to gain power and money for themselves and their wealthy backers.

They've got nothing to offer you, as a decent, honest bloke who works for a living and just wants to get along. Which strangely enough, is exactly the same as your Muslim, Catholic, Hindu, Jew, or atheist neighbours.

In fact, I'll bet the last time someone tried to 'convert' you, it was a white Christian who knocked your door with a copy of The Watchtower.

So please don't fall for that racist bollocks. Don't recycle it and do Tommy's and Nigel's work for them.

Great Replacement conspiracy theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[fernandopartridge]

I love looking at underlying stats like this and was just googling myself. Think numbers available are 2021 and had already changed quite a bit in prior few years. I’m guessing across the ward Muslim population is now maybe around 33-35% (think it was 29% in 2021, 19% in 2011). Looks like Greens targeted them and that plus the threat of Reform got them out to vote en masse

Worryingly Reform and Greens and their fairytale divisive politics picked up 70%+. Hopefully this is just a mid term by election protest vote but I fear not.

People are clearly fed up of the Tory / Labour status quo of "there's nothing we can do about the shit state of absolutely everything".

It is not a fairytale to expect well funded public services. It is not a fantasy to expect publicly provided utilities.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Probably worth putting the result up as a win by 4,000 sounds relatively close but in the context of the overall numbers not really close at all.

Green: 14,980 (+10,170)
Reform: 10,578 (+5,436)
Labour: 9,364 (-9,191)
Conservatives: 706 (-2,182)
Lib Dems: 653 (-746)

Think last election Labour, greens and workers party getting around 27k, tories and reform around 8k. Its a safe left wing seat as BSB mentioned. Reform would only win by splitting the left vote

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The Trump tribute act continues.

Trump playbook

Must be hard for people to get their head around people following an anti woman religion voting for the female candidate eh?

 

[CCFCSteve]

People are clearly fed up of the Tory / Labour status quo of "there's nothing we can do about the shit state of absolutely everything".

It is not a fairytale to expect well funded public services. It is not a fantasy to expect publicly provided utilities.

I get it. The public are pissed.

Neither of those parties appears to have a credible way of delivering the stuff that people want though. Greens just shout wealth tax, Reform immigration.

If people genuinely think it can’t get worse I’m afraid to tell them, it can

 

[LarryGrayson]

Think last election Labour, greens and workers party getting around 27k, tories and reform around 8k. Its a safe left wing seat as BSB mentioned. Reform would only win by splitting the left vote

witch they did in a closer seat that would be a worry

 

[Nick]

Mate, please don't recycle this racist myth that your or my grandkids are going to have to become Muslims.

It's a literal racist trope, a fiction, perpetuated by the far right, people like the Reform candidate Matt Goodwin and his supporters like Tommy Robinson. Would you really want to associate yourself with them?

Their game is the same as it's always been, sow hate and division to gain power and money for themselves and their wealthy backers.

They've got nothing to offer you, as a decent, honest bloke who works for a living and just wants to get along. Which strangely enough, is exactly the same as your Muslim, Catholic, Hindu, Jew, or atheist neighbours.

In fact, I'll bet the last time someone tried to 'convert' you, it was a white Christian who knocked your door with a copy of The Watchtower.

So please don't fall for that racist bollocks. Don't recycle it and do Tommy's and Nigel's work for them.

Great Replacement conspiracy theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I didn't say my grand kids. I'd be long dead.

Is it a fiction? I'm not saying it's all in that white people will be killed off etc. I'm pointing out that some areas are very much like it.

I've also said I don't think the answer is reform either. I'm not going to vote for farage so where do I sit? Who's policies will help me the most?

 

[Nick]

Trump playbook

Must be hard for people to get their head around people following an anti woman religion voting for the female candidate eh?

I'm confused, you're now trying to make out it's pro women because of it?

 

[duffer]

I love looking at underlying stats like this and was just googling myself. Think numbers available are 2021 and had already changed quite a bit in prior few years. I’m guessing across the ward Muslim population is now maybe around 33-35% (think it was 29% in 2021, 19% in 2011). Looks like Greens targeted them and that plus the threat of Reform got them out to vote en masse

Worryingly Reform and Greens and their fairytale divisive politics picked up 70%+. Hopefully this is just a mid term by election protest vote but I fear not.

What's divisive about the Greens mate? We've tried the endless centrist neoliberal nonsense, and all it's done is hugely extend wealth inequality and left most people feeling worse off than they were twenty or thirty years ago.

And now we're at a place where people are so unhappy that they are voting for literal racist nutters.

And in the meantime what are you and the other centrists offering? More of the same with a different colour tie?

Come off it, doing the same thing and expecting different results is actually the most irrational approach there is.

We've been waiting a long time for the magical centrist/centre-right beans to grow. It turns out that fairy tale doesn't have a happy ending.

 

[Sick Boy]

The Trump tribute act continues.

I saw they were going on about creating their own version of ICE - may as well just become the 51st state at this point.

 

[rob9872]

What should be equally worrying for mainstream parties, is how disenfranchised the public are with them. The eyes of the nation were on this, there has probably been more focus and campaigning by all sides since I can remember in a mid term by-election and yet in total, they've still only managed to get 50% of the electorate out to actually vote.

 

[PVA]

John Curtice saying that given 30% of the electorate is Muslim with high turnout, its an extraordinary performance by Reform to win a 30% share of the vote.

I don't know what he's saying elsewhere, but he's certainly not describing their performance as 'exceptional' in his BBC article.

 

[PVA]

Worst ever by-election result for the Tories. Stick a fork in them.

 

[Nick]

What's divisive about the Greens mate?

Is this a serious question?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I get it. The public are pissed.

Neither of those parties appears to have a credible way of delivering the stuff that people want though. Greens just shout wealth tax, Reform immigration.

If people genuinely think it can’t get worse I’m afraid to tell them, it can

The difference is that the Greens are at least correct about the mass concentration of wealth into a shrinking number of hands. Reform's race baiting and blaming of everything on Johnny Foreigner isn't even rooted in fact.

 

[Nick]

What should be equally worrying for mainstream parties, is how disenfranchised the public are with them. The eyes of the nation were on this, there has probably been more focus and campaigning by all sides since I can remember in a mid term by-election and yet in total, they've still only managed to get 50% of the electorate out to actually vote.

That's kind of what I'm getting at about disenfranchised.