Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

With respect, probably take lectures on economic management from potential Green voters.

Anyone who listens to Zach Polanski or anyone on the Labour Left and believes the plans are credible is seriously misguided.

I would almost certainly not vote if an election were tomorrow.

 

---

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I would almost certainly not vote if an election were tomorrow.

I recognise the feeling, it’s how I felt in 2024 but eventually voted Tory, begrudgingly so. Nonetheless, my recommendation to any left leaning voters is to vote Green. It sounds counterintuitive, yes but Reform cannibalising parliamentary Tory party has shifted them to the right economically and on other issues.

The Labour Party likewise needs that push into the abyss. The Tories and Labour may not survive as an electoral force past 2029 and frankly, they don’t deserve to at this moment.

Either way, we’ll more or less replay the 1970/80s where the main parties will be fighting elections further to the right and the left. Be it Reform v Greens or Tory v Labour.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I recognise the feeling, it’s how I felt in 2024 but eventually voted Tory, begrudgingly so. Nonetheless, my recommendation to any left leaning voters is to vote Green. It sounds counterintuitive, yes but Reform cannibalising parliamentary Tory party has shifted them to the right economically and on other issues.

The Labour Party likewise needs that push into the abyss. The Tories and Labour may not survive as an electoral force past 2029 and frankly, they don’t deserve to at this moment.

Either way, we’ll more or less replay the 1970/80s where the main parties will be fighting elections further to the right and the left. Be it Reform v Greens or Tory v Labour.

The Greens locally do good work, but nationally I find this new leader pretty dislikeable. I also say it as someone who has voted in every GE, local election and referendum that I could since 2010: I really wouldn’t vote for any of them.

None have either the interest or competence to improve things for families like mine. Wife feels the same, both hard working people with a young child and don’t see anything worth shouting about from either mainstream or flank parties. Reform getting in will fuck the country beyond repair though, so we’re keeping an eye on emigration or at least relocating within the UK if that happens.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The Greens locally do good work, but nationally I find this new leader pretty dislikeable. I also say it as someone who has voted in every GE, local election and referendum that I could since 2010: I really wouldn’t vote for any of them.

None have either the interest or competence to improve things for families like mine. Wife feels the same, both hard working people with a young child and don’t see anything worth shouting about from either mainstream or flank parties. Reform getting in will fuck the country beyond repair though, so we’re keeping an eye on emigration or at least relocating within the UK if that happens.

A lot of people (still) do not like Farage and have opted for Reform. There’s evidence that Reform will breakthrough in Wales and Scotland this year. Previously Farage was ran out of Glasgow (or Edinburgh) and now Reform are probably going to be the opposition to the SNP in Holyrood.

Personally, I don’t find Polanski credible, at all. He’s not a good communicator of his ideas, especially under scrutiny. That said, electoral success for the Greens either broadens that church as Reform’s electoral success has or it kickstarts the Labour Party.

Be it Kemi or Farage, the next likely PM needs to drastically shrink the state and usher in a new consensus on the economy, welfare and borders.

For different reasons, we all agree that the country needs desperate change and Labour is, for large part, continuing a deeply unpopular status quo; open borders, ever increasing tax and spend, poor public services, petty regulations, wage stagnation, economic inequality driven by asset booms. It can’t continue.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Be it Kemi or Farage, the next likely PM needs to drastically shrink the state and usher in a new consensus on the economy, welfare and borders.

Quite simply if someone comes in and does that we’ll emigrate or relocate if possible.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Quite simply if someone comes in and does that we’ll emigrate or relocate if possible.

A problem the Labour Party has on its hands.

 

[LarryGrayson]

With respect

where

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A problem the Labour Party has on its hands.

Yes, I’ve seen more than one piece on the emigration problem. Unfortunately, if the next government starts attacking things I think are essential for a functioning society, we will only be staying here if we can’t afford to move.

Not least because a mass dismantling of the state will probably see me out of work.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Yes, I’ve seen more than one piece on the emigration problem. Unfortunately, if the next government starts attacking things I think are essential for a functioning society, we will only be staying here if we can’t afford to move.

Not least because a mass dismantling of the state will probably see me out of work.

Frankly, your feelings is something that Dominic Cummings has picked up on in focus groups; in short, people are fed up and wondering why they haven’t left yet. In an aside, the reason net migration has ‘plunged’ is because emigration has spiked pretty badly and they’re usually skilled like yourself and presumably your partner. This is damaging for the country if net-tax paying families leave.

You’re a teacher, unless that’s changed, I’m not sure how or why you’re worried about losing your job. Spare a thought for teachers made redundant as a result of the 100 private school closures since the VAT raid.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Frankly, your feelings is something that Dominic Cummings has picked up on in focus groups; in short, people are fed up and wondering why they haven’t left yet. In an aside, the reason net migration has ‘plunged’ is because emigration has spiked pretty badly and they’re usually skilled like yourself and presumably your partner. This is damaging for the country if net-tax paying families leave.

You’re a teacher, unless that’s changed, I’m not sure how or why you’re worried about losing your job. Spare a thought for teachers made redundant as a result of the 100 private school closures since the VAT raid.

I haven’t been a teacher for 2.5 years. Currently doing a STEM doctorate with a view to entering the civil service-which I’ll be applying to next year all things being equal.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I haven’t been a teacher for 2.5 years. Currently doing a STEM doctorate with a view to entering the civil service-which I’ll be applying to next year all things being equal.

Sincerely, all the best in your endeavors and hopefully things work out for you and your family.

 

[chiefdave]

I also say it as someone who has voted in every GE, local election and referendum that I could since 2010: I really wouldn’t vote for any of them.

None have either the interest or competence to improve things for families like mine. Wife feels the same, both hard working people with a young child and don’t see anything worth shouting about from either mainstream or flank parties. Reform getting in will fuck the country beyond repair though, so we’re keeping an eye on emigration or at least relocating within the UK if that happens.

Same here, voted at every opportunity since I was old enough to do so and I'm really at the point where its not even a case of voting for the least worst.

Yes, I’ve seen more than one piece on the emigration problem. Unfortunately, if the next government starts attacking things I think are essential for a functioning society, we will only be staying here if we can’t afford to move.

Not least because a mass dismantling of the state will probably see me out of work.

Think I've mentioned it in the past but many years ago I had the opportunity to move to Sweden and turned it down, young, in love an naive More recently when I was made redundant a few years back a mate who now lives in Australia offered me a job out there, as an only child with two aging parents who need looking after wasn't really viable.

Regret both of those decisions more by the day tbh. I don't have kids but of the people I know who do have kids around uni age the number who are keen to get out of the country is alarming and I can only see that accelerating if we go back to a Conservative government, or even worse Reform.

And what then? When all the people who can get out do, and I'm not talking about the super rich, I'm talking about the ones who actually do the work and generate the wealth, what happens to the country then. I can't see anything other than continuing decline.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

With respect, probably take lectures on economic management from potential Green voters.

Anyone who listens to Zach Polanski or anyone on the Labour Left and believes the plans are credible is seriously misguided.

And anyone who believe Reform are credible with economic management are just as seriously misguided.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Frankly, your feelings is something that Dominic Cummings has picked up on in focus groups; in short, people are fed up and wondering why they haven’t left yet. In an aside, the reason net migration has ‘plunged’ is because emigration has spiked pretty badly and they’re usually skilled like yourself and presumably your partner. This is damaging for the country if net-tax paying families leave.

You’re a teacher, unless that’s changed, I’m not sure how or why you’re worried about losing your job. Spare a thought for teachers made redundant as a result of the 100 private school closures since the VAT raid.

Not like there's vacancies for teachers in state schools...

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

A lot of people (still) do not like Farage and have opted for Reform. There’s evidence that Reform will breakthrough in Wales and Scotland this year. Previously Farage was ran out of Glasgow (or Edinburgh) and now Reform are probably going to be the opposition to the SNP in Holyrood.

Personally, I don’t find Polanski credible, at all. He’s not a good communicator of his ideas, especially under scrutiny. That said, electoral success for the Greens either broadens that church as Reform’s electoral success has or it kickstarts the Labour Party.

Be it Kemi or Farage, the next likely PM needs to drastically shrink the state and usher in a new consensus on the economy, welfare and borders.

For different reasons, we all agree that the country needs desperate change and Labour is, for large part, continuing a deeply unpopular status quo; open borders, ever increasing tax and spend, poor public services, petty regulations, wage stagnation, economic inequality driven by asset booms. It can’t continue.

Reform will do all that on acid though

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Same here, voted at every opportunity since I was old enough to do so and I'm really at the point where its not even a case of voting for the least worst.

Think I've mentioned it in the past but many years ago I had the opportunity to move to Sweden and turned it down, young, in love an naive More recently when I was made redundant a few years back a mate who now lives in Australia offered me a job out there, as an only child with two aging parents who need looking after wasn't really viable.

Regret both of those decisions more by the day tbh. I don't have kids but of the people I know who do have kids around uni age the number who are keen to get out of the country is alarming and I can only see that accelerating if we go back to a Conservative government, or even worse Reform.

And what then? When all the people who can get out do, and I'm not talking about the super rich, I'm talking about the ones who actually do the work and generate the wealth, what happens to the country then. I can't see anything other than continuing decline.

Where do they want to go?
My kids aren’t that way inclined at all

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Where do they want to go?
My kids aren’t that way inclined at all

Australia, New Zealand and Canada on our list.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And anyone who believe Reform are credible with economic management are just as seriously misguided.

It’s a legitimate concern for anyone considering voting for Reform.

If the principles are right, the policies will follow and frankly, the experience with Labour will swing the country to the right. It already is because Reform and Tory are already polling at a combined 54%. Labour-Lib Dem-Greens has were at 54% in 2024.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s a legitimate concern for anyone considering voting for Reform.

If the principles are right, the policies will follow and frankly, the experience with Labour will swing the country to the right. It already is because Reform and Tory are already polling at a combined 54%. Labour-Lib Dem-Greens has were at 54% in 2024.

The pity is we haven’t actually seen much in the way of the progressive policies I want to see yet because it’s Labour people will think this is what ‘the left’ wants.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s a legitimate concern for anyone considering voting for Reform.

If the principles are right, the policies will follow and frankly, the experience with Labour will swing the country to the right. It already is because Reform and Tory are already polling at a combined 54%. Labour-Lib Dem-Greens has were at 54% in 2024.

The irony being the experience with Labour swing the country to the right when they've run a centre-right govt. Badly.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The pity is we haven’t actually seen much in the way of the progressive policies I want to see yet because it’s Labour people will think this is what ‘the left’ wants.

It’s because the state is at capacity, a left leaning government couldn’t expand spending on various progressive policy areas, even if they wanted to. This Labour government is finding that it’s increasing tax take and borrowing is being absorbed in more day-to-day spending. Debt vigilantes will eat up a Polanski if he tried a similar stunt to Truss with massive ‘unfunded’ tax cuts/spending increases.

The best thing the political left can hope for, ironically and counterintuitively, is a Thatcherite-esque revolution so there’s actually headroom for a left-leaning government to expand spending. To generalise, New Labour’s expansion of the state was possible because of the various Thatcher/Major government policies. Policies that actually helped working people and reduced inequality.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s because the state is at capacity, a left leaning government couldn’t expand spending on various progressive policy areas, even if they wanted to. This Labour government is finding that it’s increasing tax take and borrowing is being absorbed in more day-to-day spending. Debt vigilantes will eat up a Polanski if he tried a similar stunt to Truss with massive ‘unfunded’ tax cuts/spending increases.

The best thing the political left can hope for, ironically and counterintuitively, is a Thatcherite-esque revolution so there’s actually headroom for a left-leaning government to expand spending. To generalise, New Labour’s expansion of the state was possible because of the various Thatcher/Major government policies. Policies that actually helped working people and reduced inequality.

Maybe it's my way of coping but I'm hopinging maybe Reform is actually the best chance for the left in the mid-term. They'll make such a fuck up of it that we'll see a big shift left the election after.

Though it somehow took 14 years of Tory bullshit too get them out and then barely a year of Labour running on very similar lines and it seems we need to go back to that 14 years of shit, but on steroids and with even bigger lunatics running the asylum. So maybe not.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s because the state is at capacity, a left leaning government couldn’t expand spending on various progressive policy areas, even if they wanted to. This Labour government is finding that it’s increasing tax take and borrowing is being absorbed in more day-to-day spending. Debt vigilantes will eat up a Polanski if he tried a similar stunt to Truss with massive ‘unfunded’ tax cuts/spending increases.

The best thing the political left can hope for, ironically and counterintuitively, is a Thatcherite-esque revolution so there’s actually headroom for a left-leaning government to expand spending. To generalise, New Labour’s expansion of the state was possible because of the various Thatcher/Major government policies. Policies that actually helped working people and reduced inequality.

I fundamentally disagree with this but thanks for engaging respectfully.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Maybe it's my way of coping but I'm hopinging maybe Reform is actually the best chance for the left in the mid-term. They'll make such a fuck up of it that we'll see a big shift left the election after.

Though it somehow took 14 years of Tory bullshit too get them out and then barely a year of Labour running on very similar lines and it seems we need to go back to that 14 years of shit, but on steroids and with even bigger lunatics running the asylum. So maybe not.

Labour electing Corbyn was a huge mistake in hindsight and accelerated the collapse of working class support for Labour. Plenty of working class and ex-Labour voters I knew hated him, especially if they voted Leave.

The reason Labour have haemorrhaged support and the electorate despises is them is because they’ve more or less continued the policies of the last (hated) government. Temperamentally, Starmer is poorly suited to fix the problems the country faces and I think the Labour Party is incredibly disconnected or has fundamentally underestimated just how angry the electorate is on various policy platforms.

I fundamentally disagree with this but thanks for engaging respectfully.

Of course you would. Spending levels in the entire EU have arguably become unsustainable and there’s a reckoning coming at some point. The state cannot just keep exponentially growing.

 

[chiefdave]

Where do they want to go?
My kids aren’t that way inclined at all

Australia comes up a lot, presumably because it's English speaking and a lot of australian companies seem to proactively recruit in the UK and offer both higher salaries and good relocation packages. Scandinavian countries seem popular and the Netherlands.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Labour electing Corbyn was a huge mistake in hindsight and accelerated the collapse of working class support for Labour. Plenty of working class and ex-Labour voters I knew hated him, especially if they voted Leave.

The reason Labour have haemorrhaged support and the electorate despises is them is because they’ve more or less continued the policies of the last (hated) government. Temperamentally, Starmer is poorly suited to fix the problems the country faces and I think the Labour Party is incredibly disconnected or has fundamentally underestimated just how angry the electorate is on various policy platforms.

Exactly. Which is why it's so batshit crazy that the response is to move further to the right. The stuff we're doing under Labour is what a centre right government would do.

If you don't like what the current govt are doing and hated what the Tories were doing before that the logical position is to move to the left. It's like saying you don't like being punched in the face so you'll prefer to get smacked round the head with a cricket bat instead thank you very much.

 

[fernandopartridge]

And anyone who believe Reform are credible with economic management are just as seriously misguided.

Where I live it's a two tier local government, and Reform won control of the upper tier county council.

They've proposed this week to close the local tip and gone back on an election promise not to increase council tax. They are frauds.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Labour electing Corbyn was a huge mistake in hindsight and accelerated the collapse of working class support for Labour. Plenty of working class and ex-Labour voters I knew hated him, especially if they voted Leave.

The reason Labour have haemorrhaged support and the electorate despises is them is because they’ve more or less continued the policies of the last (hated) government. Temperamentally, Starmer is poorly suited to fix the problems the country faces and I think the Labour Party is incredibly disconnected or has fundamentally underestimated just how angry the electorate is on various policy platforms.



Of course you would. Spending levels in the entire EU have arguably become unsustainable and there’s a reckoning coming at some point. The state cannot just keep exponentially growing.

Labour got 13m votes in 2017 and 10m in 2019, who was voting for them?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Exactly. Which is why it's so batshit crazy that the response is to move further to the right. The stuff we're doing under Labour is what a centre right government would do.

If you don't like what the current govt are doing and hated what the Tories were doing before that the logical position is to move to the left. It's like saying you don't like being punched in the face so you'll prefer to get smacked round the head with a cricket bat instead thank you very much.

The Tories increased public spending, debt and taxes to record levels… they were also a ‘tax and spend’ party from 2016 onwards.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Labour got 13m votes in 2017 and 10m in 2019, who was voting for them?

Me

2017 saw the collapse of UKIP and their had to go somewhere. Most of the areas UKIP did well in 2017 (3rd place) are in seats projected to flip to Reform as things stand (North and Midlands).

Therefore, Brexit definitely played part because both parties in 2017 were committed to leaving the EU. Compared to 2019, where Labour’s Brexit policy was a mess, the Brexit Party revived the UKIP vote and cannibalised the Labour vote, particularly in the Red Wall. Hence the Tories snuck in to win as many seats as they did, whilst benefitting from the Brexit Party revived standing down candidates in Tory seats to guarantee they hold most of their seats.

At this point, both major parties could guarantee at least 30% of the electorate so even Ed Miliband won 9.5m votes in 2015 from a smaller electorate than in 2017 and 2019. In hindsight, UKIP/Brexit Party were a trailblazer since they were only non-major political party to win national elections and broke the habits of many Tory/Labour voters. These broken habits has fragmented traditional party loyalties and allowed for Reform and the Greens to build their support.

From a Labour pov specifically, it seemed pretty likely they’d go the same way as their continental centre-left parties who have gradually lost ground to the Greens. After all, deindustrialisation has completely hollowed out the traditional working class.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The Tories increased public spending, debt and taxes to record levels… they were also a ‘tax and spend’ party from 2016 onwards.

Where were the increases then? I think you're confusing their abysmal record with the economy (austerity draining demand and then capacity) with the necessary uplifts due to the chronic position public services were in, and the massive costs of their own Brexit.

 

[wingy]

With respect, probably take lectures on economic management from potential Green voters.

Anyone who listens to Zach Polanski or anyone on the Labour Left and believes the plans are credible is seriously misguided.

Whataboutery as usual!

 

[wingy]

Australia, New Zealand and Canada on our list.

It's a bit of a Hobson's choice really in my mind, go nextdoor to a maniac or too the country with China for a neighbour, for me it would be a simple choice stay away from the one that started COVID,Commits a genocide and subsequently points their fingers at the Chinese all while trying to get out of paying it's dues via a bankruptcy!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Of course you would. Spending levels in the entire EU have arguably become unsustainable and there’s a reckoning coming at some point. The state cannot just keep exponentially growing.

I don’t believe in ballooning the state indefinitely, I just find it a bit weird to see people gagging to make huge numbers of people unemployed. All Trump/Musk have done over the pond is a massive heist of eliminating big parts of the state and transferring the proceeds to their mates and themselves. Reform are a shitty tribute act who would attempt the same.

Said for a long time that the Scandinavian countries are my ‘ideal’ because they have been the happiest nations on the planet for quite some time. The old adage of ‘a hand up, not a hand out’ is how these countries function and sums up my view of the role of the state.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Where I live it's a two tier local government, and Reform won control of the upper tier county council.

They've proposed this week to close the local tip and gone back on an election promise not to increase council tax. They are frauds.

Or are finding real power is difficult to manage