Fan set to sue the Police (1 Viewer)

[dongonzalos]

I'd love to know how a select few know this fact.

Edit: I don't agree with all the shit that went on after it. People attacking police for doing their job, as the majority of them were, are scum.

And I can't believe some people are judging someone on what they look like!

Didn't judge him on what he looks like.

If an officer is on his way to deal with a disorder if you were a genuine concerned citizen, would you be challenging him about his numbers.

I genuine concerned citizen would think that that would not possibly be the right time.

 

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[dongonzalos]

Who seriously gives a feck about what you think?

Good point well made

 

[dongonzalos]

So this bloke missed the rubbish served up last season and he wants to sue?

Like it

 

[Constance Markievicz]

Didn't judge him on what he looks like.

If an officer is on his way to deal with a disorder if you were a genuine concerned citizen, would you be challenging him about his numbers.

I genuine concerned citizen would think that that would not possibly be the right time.

Yes I would challenge, only reason a copper will remove his numbers is so he doesn't get caught when he does something wrong.

 

[dongonzalos]

I am interested in what dongonzalos says, as I am about what you say...well until you write complete crap like the above.

Its a forum everyone has different opinions otherwise it would be fekking boring, so get over yourself and accept people dont all think like you do.

Fair comment.

 

[fernandopartridge]

WS That's the most sensible and fair post so far. The bloke was in the wrong to start with and got involved in something he had no reason to other than to have a pop at the police. The one officer got a bit heavy handed which was again wrong and then all the chavs who look for any opportunity to have a pop at the old bill then caused the problems afterwards. They have the cheek to complain when they got a bit back having assaulted police and stewards. These are the same idiots who shout threats and abuse at the away fans but run off when they get a bit back

At the end of the day mr Winn went to watch a football match and for reasons only known to him forget this concerned citizen crap he obviously dislikes the law and wanted a confrontation.
Any reasonable law abiding citizen would have not even spoken to a police officer about his uniform after all does mr Winn challenge his postman for not wearing his correct uniform or a taxi driver for not displaying his badge or anyone els at work for discrepancies in their uniform or identification ?. I'm sure we have all gone to work at some stage and forgot our I'd card or part of a work clothing.

The officer was wrong not to be displaying his numbers which incidentally he had on under his fluorescent jacket and he will be advised about this I'm sure but mr Winn was only motivated by two things a dislike for authority and a smart lawyer who has now shown him the pound signs.
As for the idiots who then turned it into a mass brawl in front of children and elderly they should be banned from the ground for life

It's time to ban the thugs in uniforms more like, those who stand alongside the police at the bottoms of Block 14/15.

 

[dongonzalos]

Yes I would challenge, only reason a copper will remove his numbers is so he doesn't get caught when he does something wrong.

Or hypothetically speaking he forgot his fluorescent jacket and borrowed someone else's.

He forgot his numbers.

Either way he should have been wearing his numbers. He is going to be disciplined for that.

I believe he was in his way to a disorder situation.

Do you in your heart of heart think that chap thought.
I am worried why that police officer is not wearing his numbers.

I am need to confront him about that whilst he is in route to resolve some disorder.

Or do you think he thought here us a chance to have a pop at a bobby?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'm not a steward, police officer or anyone connected to the same or club. Unfortunately some people can't see the wood for the trees and don't like the truth from a non chav, non criminal , law abiding sensible football fan who goes to support my team and not look for a confrontation at any opportunity with authority.

Unfortunately this country is going to the dogs as the minority are now becoming the majority

Non chav - now who is being judgemental. People like you crack me up, you talk about being objective but label anybody different from you as a chav. Pathetic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Or hypothetically speaking he forgot his fluorescent jacket and borrowed someone else's.

He forgot his numbers.

Either way he should have been wearing his numbers. He is going to be disciplined for that.

I believe he was in his way to a disorder situation.

Do you in your heart of heart think that chap thought.
I am worried why that police officer is not wearing his numbers.

I am need to confront him about that whilst he is in route to resolve some disorder.

Or do you think he thought here us a chance to have a pop at a bobby?

Have you even watched the incident on you tube?

 

[dongonzalos]

It's all about risk and assessment of that risk. In regards to throwing people out for sitting in the wrong end, you have to look at the risk involved. If there are fans in the wrong end and they are behaving, keeping quiet and, if found out, are respectful of those they sit amongst, surely the risk is minimal. If there are fans sat in the wrong end who jump and cheer a goal, are abusive towards those they sit with or their team, they are putting themselves and those around them at risk. Its the job of the Police to assess that risk, what the potential implications are, and reduce that risk.

It's the same in this instance. From where I sat (i the next block and the same side) the Police were walking up the stairs to retrieve a banner (rightly or wrongly... thats another discussion). The tension was already ripe in the air. This fella had already shown signs of drink and was obviously hyped up with the atmosphere. He literally clocked the Policeman without his numbers and started screaming over at them. The officer who came to speak to him eventually calmed him down (reducing risk) which is where the cameras start to pick it up. Now from then on in, the Police became very heavy handed, particularly the one who put a forearm around the fella's neck. That is quite simply not on. The fan himself though, is not completely blameless though, as he essentially created that situation by displaying aggressive behaviour over something that was trivial. He was being anti-social and abusive towards the officers and around minors, again, putting himself and those around him at risk.

The riot that ensued afterwards was just pure stupidity. Was it the fault of the police that someone fell down the stairs in an effort to attack them? Of course not. Was it his own ridiculous decision to come rampaging down steep concrete football stadium steps to get involved in something that, in any other game, under any other circumstances, wouldn't have blown completely out of proportion.

There is no blame, so there can't be a claim. It's just a series of bad decisions and unnacceptable behaviour.

Top post common sense

 

[dongonzalos]

Have you even watched the incident on you tube?

Yes, but I am not sure why you are asking me.
Who gives a fuck what I think.

 

[Constance Markievicz]

Or hypothetically speaking he forgot his fluorescent jacket and borrowed someone else's.

He forgot his numbers.

Either way he should have been wearing his numbers. He is going to be disciplined for that.

I believe he was in his way to a disorder situation.

Do you in your heart of heart think that chap thought.
I am worried why that police officer is not wearing his numbers.

I am need to confront him about that whilst he is in route to resolve some disorder.

Or do you think he thought here us a chance to have a pop at a bobby?

You don't fucking know what he was thinking.

He was harshly treated by the police as proven by the CPS withdrawing their case.

Why do you feel the need to slander the man?

Plum

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes, but I am not sure why you are asking me.
Who gives a fuck what I think.

I'm asking a question about facts, not thoughts. You've either watched it or you haven't. I am not asking for your opinion, don't flatter yourself.

 

[dongonzalos]

You don't fecking know what he was thinking.

He was harshly treated by the police as proven by the CPS withdrawing their case.

Why do you feel the need to slander the man?

Plum

I would prefer my taxes to not be spent on him.

Personally I feel if he had complained about the numbers in a reasonable calm manner.

If he was a genuine concerned citizen. Non of that ahold incident would have kicked off.

You can see by the video his complaint was nog made in a calm reasonable manner.

The ensuing police response was over the top.

The thugs who ran down knocking people over causing serious danger were wrong.

I personally would prefer that tax payers money does not go to this man.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I would prefer my taxes to not be spent on him.

Personally I feel if he had complained about the numbers in a reasonable calm manner.

If he was a genuine concerned citizen. Non of that ahold incident would have kicked off.

You can see by the video his complaint was nog made in a calm reasonable manner.

The ensuing police response was over the top.

The thugs who ran down knocking people over causing serious danger were wrong.

I personally would prefer that tax payers money does not go to this man.

The thugs you mention (the fans) acted in a 'thuggish' manner because of the police brutality, fact.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I would prefer my taxes to not be spent on him.

Personally I feel if he had complained about the numbers in a reasonable calm manner.

If he was a genuine concerned citizen. Non of that ahold incident would have kicked off.

You can see by the video his complaint was nog made in a calm reasonable manner.

The ensuing police response was over the top.

The thugs who ran down knocking people over causing serious danger were wrong.

I personally would prefer that tax payers money does not go to this man.

Would you prefer your tax to be spent on the arrest, transport to police station, cell accommodation, CPS casework, the court staff time all to wrongly prosecute an innocent person?

To quantify all that I'd imagine would produce a 5 figure sum.

 

[dongonzalos]

The thugs you mention (the fans) acted in a 'thuggish' manner because of the police brutality, fact.

Taylor two wrongs don't make a right.

It still thuggish behaviour. You can class a reasonable fan behaviour if you want.

If I see someone getting arrested and I think excessive force was used.

I would report the matter. I would not charge down 10 rows knocking people over to attempt to attack the police.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm asking a question about facts, not thoughts. You've either watched it or you haven't. I am not asking for your opinion, don't flatter yourself.

Damn, I was sitting here all flattered as well that you might care

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Taylor two wrongs don't make a right.

It still thuggish behaviour. You can class a reasonable fan behaviour if you want.

If I see someone getting arrested and I think excessive force was used.

I would report the matter. I would not charge down 10 rows knocking people over to attempt to attack the police.

So, are you telling me it's ok if the police act in a brutal manner? But a ordinary person resists, he's scum!?

 

[dongonzalos]

So, are you telling me it's ok if the police act in a brutal manner? But a ordinary person resists, he's scum!?

Can you tell me where I have condoned the actions of the police. Or where I have called those people scum.?

No I haven't

Now can you honestly tell me if you were in that stand you would have knocked people over to try and attack the police.

If not why not?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Can you tell me where I have condoned the actions of the police. Or where I have called those people scum.?

No I haven't

Now can you honestly tell me if you were in that stand you would have knocked people over to try and attack the police.

If not why not?

You haven't criticised the police really...

You called them idiots, but scum has been used by a fair few posters, although the post was in reply to yours, my post was asking a more wider question. I see it as some of the people defending a fellow fan who is another victim of police brutality.

Well it depends what the context is, if I felt I was being wronged b the police, genuinely so, not the "what have I done!?" When it's blatent you did it, and I was being manhandled etc. I would defend myself, people have this misconception that an officer can do no wrong because he's in a uniform 'doing his job', the fact the police were at fault here, their disgraceful handling of the situation provoked the fans doing what they did.

Then I wouldn't have stampeded, but if I was near, and it was clear the police were in the wrong, 'I'd have a go' and defend my fellow CCFC fan.

 

[dongonzalos]

You haven't criticised the police really...

You called them idiots, but scum has been used by a fair few posters, although the post was in reply to yours, my post was asking a more wider question. I see it as some of the people defending a fellow fan who is another victim of police brutality.

Well it depends what the context is, if I felt I was being wronged b the police, genuinely so, not the "what have I done!?" When it's blatent you did it, and I was being manhandled etc. I would defend myself, people have this misconception that an officer can do no wrong because he's in a uniform 'doing his job', the fact the police were at fault here, their disgraceful handling of the situation provoked the fans doing what they did.

Then I wouldn't have stampeded, but if I was near, and it was clear the police were in the wrong, 'I'd have a go' and defend my fellow CCFC fan.

I have criticised the police. I have said they went over the top and they are rightly going to be investigated.
I also said two wrongs don't make a right.

I also genuinely believe that if Mr Wynn had politely suggested to the officer that he should be wearing his numbers.
I think it is highly unlikely that the officer would not have tried arrest Mr Wynn for politely pointing that problem out.

However aside that matter I don't think the reaction from some on that clip was the actions of a normal everyday fan. It was the reaction of thugs. IMO.

The police over reacted. However I think if Mr Wynn had pointed the problem out in a calm polite manner as some suggest. This issue would have not happened.

So personally I would prefer if he did not sue. I don't think he deserves the money.

That's just my opinion.

 

[Grendel]

In sure of two things

Said character did not go up to the officer and say "excuse me kind sir why are you not displaying your number"

I am also sure if I was under threat on a night put I'd me more happy to see said policeman than this poor misunderstood chap.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Regardless of who was in the wrong, annoys me that a lod of nobs come charging in who most likely didnt know what the problem was, and just wanted an excuse to have a pop at the old bill.

 

[Macca]

Why should this bloke get money that's what I don t get? Surely an apology, his name cleared and an assurance that the police will always wear numbers would suffice. After all that's what's he was losing sleep over in the first place

 

[WillieStanley]

You don't fucking know what he was thinking.

He was harshly treated by the police as proven by the CPS withdrawing their case.

Why do you feel the need to slander the man?

Plum

But that guy created a situation that was completely unnecessary over something that was completely irrelevent to the reason the tension was so high at that match. The whole afternoon was meant to be centred around the poor management of the club as well as their decision to ban banners from the match. Ironically, it was probably the teams best performance of the season, but thats by the by. Our lovely fan was furious that this Policeman didn't have his numbers, and refused to listen to the explanation offered.

I think everyone has accepted that the Police ended up acting in an unreasonable fashion, however, can you call the fan's behaviour reasonable? Had he reacted like that in the City centre or in a shop or at the theatre, would it have been so readily dismissed by his peers and on-lookers? I seriously doubt it.

And now you, with your foul language and insults... do you think you are responding in a reasonable fashion? Is that the way you conduct yourself in general day to day life? If it is, you need help.

Of course, we have the right to observe and comment when there is an injustice from authority, but to absolve this man of any wrong-doing is simply ignorant of the facts and the way our society is meant to work.

 

[WillieStanley]

Oh, and to whomever it was saying they should ban the Police and Stewards and anyone else they don't like in those blocks, and then bang on about rights... You are ignoring every other person in that stadium's (including the players and the coaches) to feel protected in a safe environment. It is my right to be able to take my daughter to watch a team she loves without fear of a riot breaking out or some ASBO ridden chavs spoiling it for everyone.

 

[Deleted member 2477]

Why should this bloke get money that's what I don t get? Surely an apology, his name cleared and an assurance that the police will always wear numbers would suffice. After all that's what's he was losing sleep over in the first place

No win no fee and Jeremy Kyle have a lot to answer for.
At the end of the day the officer should have been displaying his collar numbers but he was only doing his job when he was approached by mr Winn who had his own agenda and wouldn't take a reasonable explanation. Instead he thought lets have a pop at the old bill because I don't like them and the rest is history

 

[torchomatic]

Basically the bloke got off on a technicality.

 

[dongonzalos]

No win no fee and Jeremy Kyle have a lot to answer for.
At the end of the day the officer should have been displaying his collar numbers but he was only doing his job when he was approached by mr Winn who had his own agenda and wouldn't take a reasonable explanation. Instead he thought lets have a pop at the old bill because I don't like them and the rest is history

I believe his explanation was he was hot so he swapped his normal fluorescent jacket for a lighter one.

The lighter one needed metal numbers that you attach where as the heavier one has them already attached.

He did not have the metal numbers but had them on his stab proof vest underneath.

however I am sure some believe he thought i am not going to wear them as I am hoping someone will politely ask me why i am not. then I can duff them up in a stadium full of hundreds of people with mobile phones. However no will be able to identify me later.

I can do this as I am above the law.

 

[dongonzalos]

Basically the bloke got off on a technicality.

He had a trial. He put his own point of view across.
The police officer put his.
The magistrates watched the CCTV.
He was found guilty by three independent magistrates.

Then at this appeal. The case is dropped before it is heard.

The CPS have not explained why.

So who knows why it is.

Leaving us all guessing.

They should say why. If it is because it was an unlawful arrest, that should get dealt with

 

[Grendel]

Basically the bloke got off on a technicality.

Some people on here seem to be comparing him to the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Oh dear.

 

[dongonzalos]

Some people on here seem to be comparing him to the Tolpuddle Martyrs. Oh dear.

Good knowledge.

However be careful you will be accused of slandering the man.

 

[cloughie]

Don quote Either way he should have been wearing his numbers. He is going to be disciplined for that.
You must be the only person to know that 'fact'

WS quoteThis fella had already shown signs of drink and was obviously hyped up , according to evidence given he hadn't had any drink,
so Rubbish
Torch quote Basically the bloke got off on a technicality ,are you serious or are you on about the officer who made the assault

As for police not wearing their id numbers it is well documented that police have previously and consistantly done this in volotile situations where they have been proven to act violently and against the law, so they can not be identified( not at the Ricoh)

 

[Deleted member 2477]

Don quote Either way he should have been wearing his numbers. He is going to be disciplined for that.
You must be the only person to know that 'fact'

WS quoteThis fella had already shown signs of drink and was obviously hyped up , according to evidence given he hadn't had any drink,
so Rubbish
Torch quote Basically the bloke got off on a technicality ,are you serious or are you on about the officer who made the assault

As for police not wearing their id numbers it is well documented that police have previously and consistantly done this in volotile situations where they have been proven to act violently and against the law, so they can not be identified( not at the Ricoh)

Cloughie do you really think the officer started his duty for the day and thought I know I'm going to cause problems today so I'm not going to put my numbers on. Come on mate lets get real the officer made a mistake and put his fluorescent jacket on without his numbers displayed fact.
He was approached by mr Winn who had an issue with a police officer not displaying his collar number fact.
The said officer and his supervisor tried to calm the situation down and explain the reason fact.
Mr Winn was not happy with this and continued to be abusive and disorderly as shown on the CCTV.
Contrary to some people's belief police officers don't go out looking for a fight they know full we'll that the Ricoh is covered in CCTV. in every line of work there are people better than others at the job and people act in different ways but mr Winn clearly has an issue with police officers to get involved like he did and due to his actions the whole situation escalated thanks to thugs.

Next time your in trouble or you need help guess who you will call. It won't be mr Winn it will a police officer who is only doing his job like you and me and without them like it or not this country would be in an even worse mess than it is now.
If you think police officers in this country are heavy handed try living in Germany or Italy then you will realise that our police force is as good as it gets unless you don't like a law abiding society which unfortunatley mr Winn and the like don't

Not every police officer is perfect and there are good and bad just like every other job but if you think you can do a better job give it a try and let's see how you take being sworn at and abused and then expected to act in a professional and restrained manner.