Embarrassing (10 Viewers)

[Grendel]

I have no idea who your MP is. But I’m sure the Reform guys will be big on welfare spend and constituency business.

“Something might have happened and didn’t so I’m working hard to get in the people who want to do even worse” absolutely clown politics.

Reform UK manifesto suggests huge cuts, threats to disability rights, and risks to safety of benefit claimants

The right-wing Reform UK party has published a manifesto that repeatedly threatens the rights of disabled people, suggests it will pose significant safeguarding risks to benefit claimants, and warn…

www.disabilitynewsservice.com

A few weeks ago you discounted Reform as an unelectable party which will never govern.

Now it seems if you don’t vote Labour it means a reform government

 

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[Marty]

Do enjoy a good deal tbf and will keep that in mind. Just struck me how expensive it was to have a bowl of soup in some places, £8 is the going rate in 'leafy' Leamington.

Crazy prices for something that is so cheap. I make a lovely roasted vegetable soup. Butternut squash, onions, potatoes, garlic, carrots, tomatoes, veg stock, plus whatever left overs are in the fridge, pair it up with a fresh loaf of bread and you get about 6 bowls of delicious soup for about £4. Bargain!

 

[Sick Boy]

Starmer is hardly left-wing

 

[Ccfc_Addy]

If they fail to get re-elected it will be because they've failed to make any genuine change to the country despite having a massive majority in parliament.

Of course most of the media is unfriendly, it is for every Labour government - but chopping right (almost instinctively) on so many major decisions has inevitably cost them support from the left too. Which, notably, doesn't seem to worry the leadership at all.

You can't blame the left for Starmer's choices. This was visible from a long way off.

Speaking as a left-leaning person who voted Labour last election, I am not going to forget in a hurry all of the overtures from Starmer and his team that the left were no longer welcome, his "you know where the door is" speech, his abandonment of the 10 pledges and the quote from his team about "fleas that needed to be shaken off" in particular.

It's entirely up to him if he wants to disassociate from and alienate a huge portion of his voter base whilst chasing the votes of a bloc that despises him and has made up their mind they will never vote Labour under any circumstances, but you can't then demand that those same people you made clear were no longer wanted or needed, vote for you.

 

[SHUNT31]

No. As someone political and claiming to be left wing despite all evidence advocating against the only left wing option for government is clown politics.

Spending your time making things up about said government is just pathetic. You are actively working towards electing a Reform government. Because you’re a child and since the man you loved lost you’ve done nothing in the political threads but play pound shop Grendel and pretend to have some moral high ground because you think Kier Starmer can stop a genocide in Gaza.

Edit: And as you’re now carrying your psychosis over to the football side I’ll address that here too. Yes I’m a Labour supporter. Because I’m left wing. I want good things for the vulnerable and poor and a functioning economy. And Labour are the only vehicle for that for a host of systemic reasons.

Possibly the biggest contradiction known to man there… Vote labour and want a functioning economy.

When have labour ever left the economy in a better position than it was when the came to power?

 

[Grendel]

Possibly the biggest contradiction known to man there… Vote labour and want a functioning economy.

When have labour ever left the economy in a better position than it was when the came to power?

He will be digging out his flawed stats from that imbecile Richard Murphy now - please don't encourage him.

 

[Sick Boy]

Possibly the biggest contradiction known to man there… Vote labour and want a functioning economy.

When have labour ever left the economy in a better position than it was when the came to power?

It’s mostly the Tories who’ve managed to downturn the economy over the last 10 years.

 

[rob9872]

Starmer planned to steal my wife’s PIP and my MP ignores our correspondence. Tell me why either deserve my vote?

And there it is.

When you scratch the surface a little it's like every other socialist who is all for sharing out all of the wealth apart from their own. Agrees with things right up to the point it affects what they do.

And fwiw I do sympathise with your wife losing her PIP, if she genuinely needs it then it's clearly wrong, but I don't pretend to be something else.

 

[chiefdave]

Speaking as a left-leaning person who voted Labour last election, I am not going to forget in a hurry all of the overtures from Starmer and his team that the left were no longer welcome, his "you know where the door is" speech, his abandonment of the 10 pledges and the quote from his team about "fleas that needed to be shaken off" in particular.

It's entirely up to him if he wants to disassociate from and alienate a huge portion of his voter base whilst chasing the votes of a bloc that despises him and has made up their mind they will never vote Labour under any circumstances, but you can't then demand that those same people you made clear were no longer wanted or needed, vote for you.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to grasp. I'm sure there were some on the left who were never prepared to give Starmer a chance, the same applies to every new leader in every party. But most were more than willing to give him a chance and happy with the platform he ran on.

But once in power he abondoned that platform and basically told those on the left of the party they weren't wanted or needed.

You can't then turn round and complain that the people you've told to fuck off have indeed fucked off.

Said it months ago he was playing a dangerous game just assuming that he would get that block to vote for him by default but some on here claimed it was genius politics and had no risk of backfiring.

He's won one election on not being the tories, he won't win a second one on that. People need to start seeing improvements fast. At the moment he seems to spend most of his time chasing people who are never going to vote for him at the expense of people who would.

 

[Sick Boy]

I don't understand why this is so hard for some people to grasp. I'm sure there were some on the left who were never prepared to give Starmer a chance, the same applies to every new leader in every party. But most were more than willing to give him a chance and happy with the platform he ran on.

But once in power he abondoned that platform and basically told those on the left of the party they weren't wanted or needed.

You can't then turn round and complain that the people you've told to fuck off have indeed fucked off.

Said it months ago he was playing a dangerous game just assuming that he would get that block to vote for him by default but some on here claimed it was genius politics and had no risk of backfiring.

He's won one election on not being the tories, he won't win a second one on that. People need to start seeing improvements fast. At the moment he seems to spend most of his time chasing people who are never going to vote for him at the expense of people who would.

Whoever is advising him needs to be fired. The “island of strangers” speech was something Farage would come out with. Like Johnson, he’ll mess up a massive majority and his legacy will be the PM that handed Farage the keys to #10.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And there it is.

When you scratch the surface a little it's like every other socialist who is all for sharing out all of the wealth apart from their own. Agrees with things right up to the point it affects what they do.

And fwiw I do sympathise with your wife losing her PIP, if she genuinely needs it then it's clearly wrong, but I don't pretend to be something else.

I'm not precisely sure what wealth you think a disabled woman is hoarding and you will find before I have said that I am happy to pay higher taxes to deliver better public services, so is my wife. What I do not agree with is taking from those who need extra assistance, in this case someone who is visually impaired and thus needs more help getting around and managing.

To be extra clear, I was also critical of the hits to pensioner's fuel payments. I have also been volunteering in the community for years, there is no hypocrisy on my part. You can politely get to fuck with your last sentence.

 

[rob9872]

I'm not precisely sure what wealth you think a disabled woman is hoarding and you will find before I have said that I am happy to pay higher taxes to deliver better public services, so is my wife. What I do not agree with is taking from those who need extra assistance, in this case someone who is visually impaired and thus needs more help getting around and managing.

To be extra clear, I was also critical of the hits to pensioner's fuel payments. I have also been volunteering in the community for years, there is no hypocrisy on my part. You can politely get to fuck with your last sentence.

Spectacularly missing the point as usual even when I say I dont disagree with her getting PIP despite not knowing the reason she required it. Cuts for those who need it are wrong I said that. I also didnt imply her wealth. It's a general view of socialism that you want all wealth shared but that means all not the parts that don't affect you. It's like those who pay to see edgy comedians and laugh at all of the jokes offending others but get offended by the one subject which is close to them.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Spectacularly missing the point as usual even when I say I dont disagree with her getting PIP despite not knowing the reason she required it. Cuts for those who need it are wrong I said that. I also didnt imply her wealth. It's a general view of socialism that you want all wealth shared but that means all not the parts that don't affect you. It's like those who pay to see edgy comedians and laugh at all of the jokes offending others but get offended by the one subject which is close to them.

There is no missing the point, I'll accept being called hypocritical when I am (and there's plenty of examples of that on the football side), but on my political views it's just untrue. I'm not even a socialist to be clear, a social democrat yes. We are both happy to pay higher taxes to support better public services and both happy to pay more in shops/restaurants etc if it allows them to pay better wages to their staff. That's something I've said countless times.

My big issue here is that this is removing a benefit from someone who has a lifelong disability. You'd have a point if I supported the cuts also being applied to pensioners, I opposed them. You also agreed that it's wrong to take away PIP from such people, so what even is your gripe? Just a cheap attempt at a gotcha is what it looks like.

 

[rob9872]

I do agree with it being wrong to take them, but I'm also from the school of 'get what you can for yourself because nobody else is looking out for you'. I'm aware it's selfish thinking and I don't apologise for it. My point is that most people are the same and I was suggesting you are too, but like most on here (it appears to me) that you don't want to be seen as selfish until something affects you directly.

I too would pay more tax for better services, but again if I'm completely honest, only the services that actually affect me and my family. I certainly wouldnt want to pay more for others that I don't. Yeah I'm a c**t I get it, no case for the defence, but there is so much pretence on here that it's difficult to spot the difference most of the time. And if my comment upset you, that wasn't the intention. I'm very protective of my family and wouldn't want them brought into things, so although it was a direct quote from you regarding her PIP, for that I truly apologise.

 

[Terry_dactyl]

Starmer is hardly left-wing

My mate says he’s a communist.

My mate also says that all medicine is a way that the government is trying to control us so doesn’t go to the doctors anymore, and he also once attended a 3 day flat earth convention.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I do agree with it being wrong to take them, but I'm also from the school of 'get what you can for yourself because nobody else is looking out for you'. I'm aware it's selfish thinking and I don't apologise for it. My point is that most people are the same and I was suggesting you are too, but like most on here (it appears to me) that you don't want to be seen as selfish until something affects you directly.

I too would pay more tax for better services, but again if I'm completely honest, only the services that actually affect me and my family. I certainly wouldnt want to pay more for others that I don't. Yeah I'm a c**t I get it, no case for the defence, but there is so much pretence on here that it's difficult to spot the difference most of the time. And if my comment upset you, that wasn't the intention. I'm very protective of my family and wouldn't want them brought into things, so although it was a direct quote from you regarding her PIP, for that I truly apologise.

You would have seen me criticising the PIP cuts irrespective of whether or not someone close to me was impacted. I am a very long way from being a pensioner, and with all my grandparents now passed on, nobody I know receives WFP. I still strongly disagreed with the way they wanted to cut it. Likewise the previous Tory cuts to a whole range of services I don't use and will use little in my lifetime.

Your views are yours, fair enough. Mine are that even if I don't personally benefit from more money going towards a service, if I can see a societal benefit from it then I support it. In this case, if someone with a visual impairment that can never be treated needs extra money to support them being more independent (and therefore going into work, earning money and paying tax), it is worth it and taking that benefit away seems to be hitting the wrong people.

So I have no issue with my opinion being argued against, I do have a strong issue with being considered hypocritical when that isn't the case.

 

[shmmeee]

Back on topic latest immigration numbers are out.

Summary of latest statistics

www.gov.uk

Thought this was a nice diagram, not seen it like this before.


Student dependent visa down 81%, students down 4%

Family visas down 23%

Work down 36%

Healthcare down 88%
Nursing down 80%

Asylum up 14%

 

[torchomatic]

Think is a post code mate

Really? Thanks, had no idea...

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No. As someone political and claiming to be left wing despite all evidence advocating against the only left wing option for government is clown politics.

Spending your time making things up about said government is just pathetic. You are actively working towards electing a Reform government. Because you’re a child and since the man you loved lost you’ve done nothing in the political threads but play pound shop Grendel and pretend to have some moral high ground because you think Kier Starmer can stop a genocide in Gaza.

Edit: And as you’re now carrying your psychosis over to the football side I’ll address that here too. Yes I’m a Labour supporter. Because I’m left wing. I want good things for the vulnerable and poor and a functioning economy. And Labour are the only vehicle for that for a host of systemic reasons.

Well for many years the Conservatives have been considered the only right wing option for government. So shouldn't people thinking of voting Reform vote for the Tories because they're the only realistic option?

Starmer trying to appeal to section of the Reform support is a disaster waiting to happen. It moves the Overton window to the right as a supposedly left wing party enacts more right wing policy, enabling the likes of Reform to be even more batshit. And no matter what he does there a too many on the right who will never, ever vote for Labour no matter how much they move to the right purely because of the way the party is perceived by them. No matter what they do they'll think they're socialist/commie/woke losers who will ruin the economy even though there's far more instances of right wing policy causing financial meltdown.

I've pretty much accepted that at some point we're going to end up with a far-right government and I expect that to be Reform at the next GE barring the party (well, Farage) doing something monumentally insane. So let's just get it over with, realise that they're grifters and fascists without an idea and the quicker we can get rid of them and get back to some sense of sanity as parties stop trying to pander to them.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Possibly the biggest contradiction known to man there… Vote labour and want a functioning economy.

When have labour ever left the economy in a better position than it was when the came to power?

Bigger contradiction is voting Conservative and wanting a functioning country. It's all built on bullshit metrics that don't mean anything meanwhile in reality everything is getting worse.

 

[rob9872]

Well for many years the Conservatives have been considered the only right wing option for government. So shouldn't people thinking of voting Reform vote for the Tories because they're the only realistic option?

Starmer trying to appeal to section of the Reform support is a disaster waiting to happen. It moves the Overton window to the right as a supposedly left wing party enacts more right wing policy, enabling the likes of Reform to be even more batshit. And no matter what he does there a too many on the right who will never, ever vote for Labour no matter how much they move to the right purely because of the way the party is perceived by them. No matter what they do they'll think they're socialist/commie/woke losers who will ruin the economy even though there's far more instances of right wing policy causing financial meltdown.

I've pretty much accepted that at some point we're going to end up with a far-right government and I expect that to be Reform at the next GE barring the party (well, Farage) doing something monumentally insane. So let's just get it over with, realise that they're grifters and fascists without an idea and the quicker we can get rid of them and get back to some sense of sanity as parties stop trying to pander to them.

Start with Reform, realise they're mental and shift slightly to the left with the more moderate Conservatives for 20 years of everyone agreeing they weren't that bad after all

 

[chiefdave]

I've pretty much accepted that at some point we're going to end up with a far-right government and I expect that to be Reform at the next GE barring the party (well, Farage) doing something monumentally insane. So let's just get it over with, realise that they're grifters and fascists without an idea and the quicker we can get rid of them and get back to some sense of sanity as parties stop trying to pander to them.

Problem is when Trump got in for his first time we all thought that would be the wake up call and people would realise he was a grifter and fascist but then they voted him in again despite the fact that under Biden pretty much every measurable metric improved.

 

[SBT]

Driving up from London yesterday, never seen so many England and Union flags draped over the flyovers on the A40. I wonder why? Women’s Rugby World Cup?

 

[shmmeee]

Well for many years the Conservatives have been considered the only right wing option for government. So shouldn't people thinking of voting Reform vote for the Tories because they're the only realistic option?

Starmer trying to appeal to section of the Reform support is a disaster waiting to happen. It moves the Overton window to the right as a supposedly left wing party enacts more right wing policy, enabling the likes of Reform to be even more batshit. And no matter what he does there a too many on the right who will never, ever vote for Labour no matter how much they move to the right purely because of the way the party is perceived by them. No matter what they do they'll think they're socialist/commie/woke losers who will ruin the economy even though there's far more instances of right wing policy causing financial meltdown.

I've pretty much accepted that at some point we're going to end up with a far-right government and I expect that to be Reform at the next GE barring the party (well, Farage) doing something monumentally insane. So let's just get it over with, realise that they're grifters and fascists without an idea and the quicker we can get rid of them and get back to some sense of sanity as parties stop trying to pander to them.

Disgusting weak attitude to fascism. I’m glad my grandparents didn’t have it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Disgusting weak attitude to fascism. I’m glad my grandparents didn’t have it.

But despite sane people spending decades/lifetimes warning against the likes of Farage, Trump and numerous others around the world it falls on deaf ears and the harder you seem to warn against it the more they move towards them.

I've long believed that if we educate people enough then they'll be able to see it for what it is, but it increasingly feels like bashing your head against a brick wall. It really does feel the only way to get through to them and stop it is for them to actually see what it's like.

I fucking hate the thought of it, and what they'll do to suppress people if they do, but what we're doing to prevent it isn't working anymore.

 

[chiefdave]

We should all unite behind Starmer to stop the Tories / Reform getting in just as the Labour Party united behind Corbyn to ensure the Tories didn't win