Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
There’s a video of at least part of the arson attempt in the report. Good goalpost moving though.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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Nick
Administrator
So people who signed up to do a poll. It's not all of the public.
Also you're merging rioters with protesters aren't you?
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Just a clown show really isn't it
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Im saying all the people who go out for the day to get pissed and wave an England flag about in the name of not liking foreigners are of a piece and are nothing like the majority in this country, yeah.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Methodology | YouGov
YouGov conducts its public opinion surveys online using something called Active Sampling for the overwhelming majority of its commercial work, including all nationally and regionally representative research. The emphasis is always on the quality of the sample, rather than the quantity of...
yougov.co.uk
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I spent the first 18 months trying to sort out my Dads care with the local C&W NHS before it was decided we needed ICBs, whose main role seemed to be withdrawing funding from as many people as possible.
The process with them was ongoing until I received a letter saying there's going to be another reorganisation, under Starmers instruction, and at some unspecified point in the future I will be contacted by this new entity to continue the appeals process. In the meantime I'm paying out 4 figures a month that I can't afford.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Just to throw a grenade, both direct action with no violence? Either both should be allowed or neither.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No violence? Police were attacked and injured.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
“We just care about kids innit?”
www.southwalesargus.co.uk
Scouts heading for camp suffer racist abuse after being mistaken for asylum seekers
A ‘racially aggravated incident’ involving young Scouts under 18 has occurred in Gwent.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
As the public were by Palestine action. But that wasn’t their main intent so it’s OK, no?
mmttww
Well-Known Member
Are you talking about the break in at Elbit in Bristol last Aug? because comparing that to the riots after Southport is a stretch however you look at it.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Im saying if we took property damage out of the equation for proscribing groups then you’d have the same argument against both. The only difference is PA is an organised group and not a random bunch of piss heads organised over a WhatsApp.
There’s been cases of burning down buildings with no one in. There’s been violence towards the police and public as an aside to that. Both are actions designed to change government policy the people doing them disagree with and to make existing government policy more expensive and less tenable.
Other than one being a cause you agree with and one not (and one being an organised group that can be proscribed) what’s the difference?
Again I’ve been a member of a direct action group though not an arrestable. I strongly believe in the cause they are campaigning for. But if we say it’s OK to stop businesses an damage property as a form of protest then the hotel protest and the building burnings etc are all valid direct action. That feels wrong and the only thing I can ascribe it to is hypocrisy that I agree with one side and not the other.
In the grand scheme of things I’m not convinced as I was that direct action is effective and like the hotel stuff it’s mostly about people getting an adrenaline rush from breaking the law under the guise of doing good.
So on balance I think saying direct action isn’t appropriate in a modern democracy is the right answer.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Are you considering the people who tried to burn the hotel last year to be terrorists in that case?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think so, except you can’t proscribe “people drinking Stella with their tops off outside Wetherspoons”
But they’re aiming to change government policy through serious property damage. Fits the bill for me.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
You know details of PA's past actions, I've been playing catch-up, I hear what you're saying, just doesn't convince me that their listing wasn't a rushed, politically driven decision rather than 'must protect the public!'.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I suspect there’s something else in the upcoming trials as all the govt have said is that their actions are escalating. Ultimately going after military targets is a very quick way for the government to stop seeing you as a cute innocent protester. They obviously saw the entire RAF as a valid target and we are at a more heightened global war state than for a long time, so there’s a bit of play stupid games win stupid prizes at play here IMO.
I don’t think Starmer is the type to use the justice system to exact grudges TBQH. Whatever cartoon villain he’s been made out to be he’s a man of the justice system and of process. I think he sees the 2011 riots (which he was involved in at the CPS) the 2024 riots, more extreme protest actions, be they Palestine or asylum seekers, all of a piece of antisocial behaviour that the public doesn’t want. And generally he’s right the public don’t like that sort of protest. He’s a cop at the end of the day.
Really? Was Susan from Tunbridge Wells planning to behead an airman in the street?
mmttww
Well-Known Member
and I don't think that's what's happened. I think pressure from Israel and its lobby groups led to them being placated and PA being listed.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
and I don't think that's what's happened. I think pressure from Israel and its lobby groups led to them being placated and PA being listed.
Im not convinced that’s how our security services work.
I also can’t imagine Israel give a shit tbh.
mmttww
Well-Known Member
and I think if groups like this are bothered enough to intervene in the low-level bits they have been, it's not wild to think Israel would apply pressure on the government to take action on something more high profile.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Yeah TBF Israel absolutely could give a shit I’d forgotten this is Israel were talking about.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
More they don’t give a shit about a specific group. Though if today government insiders are claiming funding from Iran then why wouldn’t Israel also want to stop them?
No, I’m saying there have been terror groups in this country who really did see the “entire” armed forces as a valid target, to the extent that one serviceman was murdered on the street. Are Palestine Action in the same category for you now?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Are we arguing for second and third degree terrorism here it something? If PA saw every Jewish business as a valid target as is claimed is that fair game? If the equipment they took out is needed to save a life in a conflict abroad and isn’t available is that life a fair trade to make a point? I’m really not as sure it’s as morally cut and dried as you seem to think it is. At least with climate action you can claim the other side of the scale is literally all known life.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Hahahahahaha of course your on BlueSky
Grendel
Well-Known Member
and I don't think that's what's happened. I think pressure from Israel and its lobby groups led to them being placated and PA being listed.
It would seem a somewhat incredulous view. Starmer has now stated the group deliberately target Uk Jewish businesses. By definition a racist action. It’s a stretch to say he’s fabricating this to preserve arms sales to Israel
mmttww
Well-Known Member
I've not said anything about arms sales or how Starmer chooses to justify the decision to list them. I'm saying it's not mad to think Israel would try to shut down dissent by leaning on our government.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How can they lean on them? Either they are targeting Jews or not.