Club finances (8 Viewers)

[Lamps]

One of the old favourites where the topic would end up with over 100 pages of replies. These days not spoken too much about. The problem is have is life overtook me for a period of time and I don't know if anything happened then.

Couple of questions.

When Lampard took over had all the money from the sales of Hamer and Gyokeres been spent? If so did we bring in any other large amounts of money?

If not then as well as losses have we found about 8m for the signings since Lampard took over? Could this be anything to do with this mysterious 15m?

On a total guess again. Not going back too many years our squad was worthless. We looked an average League 2 side. We've had a few victories in the transfer market. Squad value now 100m+? Is King taking a little gamble on signing players that will help our quest in promotion as well as gaining in value? KKH is an excellent signing with this view.

Or am I just dreaming and we have already spent the Gyokeres next installment?

 

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[Briles]

One of the old favourites where the topic would end up with over 100 pages of replies. These days not spoken too much about. The problem is have is life overtook me for a period of time and I don't know if anything happened then.

Couple of questions.

When Lampard took over had all the money from the sales of Hamer and Gyokeres been spent? If so did we bring in any other large amounts of money?

If not then as well as losses have we found about 8m for the signings since Lampard took over? Could this be anything to do with this mysterious 15m?

On a total guess again. Not going back too many years our squad was worthless. We looked an average League 2 side. We've had a few victories in the transfer market. Squad value now 100m+? Is King taking a little gamble on signing players that will help our quest in promotion as well as gaining in value? KKH is an excellent signing with this view.

Or am I just dreaming and we have already spent the Gyokeres next installment?

There was a poster on here who sadly passed away who would've been all over these questions!

 

[Bigelvesy]

I know absolutely nothing factual to answer these questions, but i just wanted to say i think there is a common misconception that transfers are paid in upfront lump sums.
In reality they are stretched out and structured over multiple years, and therefore the “budget/pot of cash” goes further.
Additional to that the reported figures are often the total potential amount including performance benchmarks and not the guaranteed money.

The most obvious one i see related to Cov is Ellis Simms, often claimed to have cost us £7-8m but this is the overall value of the transfer, we initially paid 3.5m and the rest is made up of installments and performance (team and personal) milestones.

Personally, and only based on gut feel i think we have so far had all incoming covered by the outgoing, whether there is any left without more outgoings im not sure

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I know absolutely nothing factual to answer these questions, but i just wanted to say i think there is a common misconception that transfers are paid in upfront lump sums.
In reality they are stretched out and structured over multiple years, and therefore the “budget/pot of cash” goes further.
Additional to that the reported figures are often the total potential amount including performance benchmarks and not the guaranteed money.

The most obvious one i see related to Cov is Ellis Simms, often claimed to have cost us £7-8m but this is the overall value of the transfer, we initially paid 3.5m and the rest is made up of installments and performance (team and personal) milestones.

Personally, and only based on gut feel i think we have so far had all incoming covered by the outgoing, whether there is any left without more outgoings im not sure

But does the pot go further, because we're receiving transfer fees in installments too. So swings and roundabouts.

 

[Lamps]

I know absolutely nothing factual to answer these questions, but i just wanted to say i think there is a common misconception that transfers are paid in upfront lump sums.
In reality they are stretched out and structured over multiple years, and therefore the “budget/pot of cash” goes further.
Additional to that the reported figures are often the total potential amount including performance benchmarks and not the guaranteed money.

The most obvious one i see related to Cov is Ellis Simms, often claimed to have cost us £7-8m but this is the overall value of the transfer, we initially paid 3.5m and the rest is made up of installments and performance (team and personal) milestones.

Personally, and only based on gut feel i think we have so far had all incoming covered by the outgoing, whether there is any left without more outgoings im not sure

It's all about balancing the books. All transfer deals are different. You need to make sure what you have coming in with transfers covers what's going out. Otherwise you are going to eat into your playing budget or you need money putting into our club. The major priority is keeping up with payments on transfers.

I thought the Gyokeres and Hamer money was spent when Robins was with us. Since then we have spent about another 8m. The money we have coming from them won't cover it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes we’ll be paying for most signings in instalments, but the money has still been committed without player sales this year.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The last accounts to 31 May 24 show £23.6m profit on player sales. They present transfer fees as debts within one year and over one year totalling £7.3m and £9.7m and refers to spending post the accounting period of an additional £10m. It's a little difficult to follow really. The wage bill went up by £6m / 33%.

King had made a £30m credit facility available to the club, which increased by £24m in year.

 

[Major Tom]

Think it's fair to say it looks and certainly feels that we are in a better position than we have been for some time and we are a lot more secure than some clubs in the EFL. Only overhanging doubt is the stadium and what the future holds for us and the owners in terms of rent and stability.
Increasing attendances and profile can only be good for the club which will help bring in better quality players driving more success.
Feels like a great time to be a city supporter with young family who go up too. Another good year in the championship, a strong start with close to 30,000 attendances is some turn around from where we were. Attendance 5 years ago pre-pandemic start of the 2019/20 season first home game 6,534 home to Southend.

 

[Balli001]

Think it's fair to say it looks and certainly feels that we are in a better position than we have been for some time and we are a lot more secure than some clubs in the EFL. Only overhanging doubt is the stadium and what the future holds for us and the owners in terms of rent and stability.
Increasing attendances and profile can only be good for the club which will help bring in better quality players driving more success.
Feels like a great time to be a city supporter with young family who go up too. Another good year in the championship, a strong start with close to 30,000 attendances is some turn around from where we were. Attendance 5 years ago pre-pandemic start of the 2019/20 season first home game 6,534 home to Southend.

That was at St Andrews though as part mitigation

 

[Major Tom]

That was at St Andrews though as part mitigation

yes good call of course.. seems an age ago in football terms.

 

[Flying Fokker]

There was a poster on here who sadly passed away who would've been all over these questions!

Oldskyblue58. Mark Franklin

 

[shmmeee]

Think it's fair to say it looks and certainly feels that we are in a better position than we have been for some time and we are a lot more secure than some clubs in the EFL. Only overhanging doubt is the stadium and what the future holds for us and the owners in terms of rent and stability.
Increasing attendances and profile can only be good for the club which will help bring in better quality players driving more success.
Feels like a great time to be a city supporter with young family who go up too. Another good year in the championship, a strong start with close to 30,000 attendances is some turn around from where we were. Attendance 5 years ago pre-pandemic start of the 2019/20 season first home game 6,534 home to Southend.

Is that just because the ground is full and we’re spending money? We don’t have a clue how secure we are in reality do we?

 

[bigfatronssba]

Is that just because the ground is full and we’re spending money? We don’t have a clue how secure we are in reality do we?

We’re as secure as any championship club can be.
Our losses are not significant compared to the rest of the division

 

[shmmeee]

We’re as secure as any championship club can be.
Our losses are not significant compared to the rest of the division

OK and how much capacity for losses do we have?

All this stuff is hypothetical really. None of us spotted Sisus exit despite obsessing over the finances. The only person who knows how much the owner is willing to put up with is the owner. All we can do is enjoy the football (or not) really.

 

[chiefdave]

All this stuff is hypothetical really. None of us spotted Sisus exit despite obsessing over the finances. The only person who knows how much the owner is willing to put up with is the owner. All we can do is enjoy the football (or not) really.

I suspect if we hadn't been through all the shit with SISU nobody would be giving a second thought to our finances.

While its good to be aware, and I prefer people to be concerned rather than being like Portsmouth fans who demand ridiculous levels of investment within months of being 'saved', its out of our control and you have to trust King to not get us in a position we can't recover from.

The sad reality is the league is setup so that teams who aren't prepared to throw silly money away are at a disadvantage.

 

[shmmeee]

I suspect if we hadn't been through all the shit with SISU nobody would be giving a second thought to our finances.

While its good to be aware, and I prefer people to be concerned rather than being like Portsmouth fans who demand ridiculous levels of investment within months of being 'saved', its out of our control and you have to trust King to not get us in a position we can't recover from.

The sad reality is the league is setup so that teams who aren't prepared to throw silly money away are at a disadvantage.

It’s why I learned to stop caring. The game is fucked. We aren’t going to change that on our own. Clubs our size tend to find another buyer willing to have a go on the merry go round. Owners will make financial deals and hide money and the first we’ll know will be players not getting paid or transfer embargo’s and even those seem to be tactical from owners rather than forced. Then even if the worst comes to the worst we’ll just go pop and have the same owners as we did before under a new legal entity. Then one day they’ll fuck off and the next guy will have a go. Meanwhile you’ll have experienced the best decade of being a fan in your life on the pitch.

 

[chiefdave]

Clubs our size tend to find another buyer willing to have a go on the merry go round.

Exactly, I mean at some point one won't but hopefully it's not us. It was only really a bigger concern with SISU because a club not playing in its home city with an owner wanting to get all their money back wasn't an easy sell.

 

[shmmeee]

Exactly, I mean at some point one won't but hopefully it's not us. It was only really a bigger concern with SISU because a club not playing in its home city with an owner wanting to get all their money back wasn't an easy sell.

Yeah the club not being able to go bust was a far bigger concern than it going bust tbh.

 

[Major Tom]

OK and how much capacity for losses do we have?

All this stuff is hypothetical really. None of us spotted Sisus exit despite obsessing over the finances. The only person who knows how much the owner is willing to put up with is the owner. All we can do is enjoy the football (or not) really.

I don't disagree, but unless there's full exposure which is extremely unlikely then we will never know. That why said 'it feels like and we are lot more secure that on clubs in the EFL '
Looking at Hull, SWFC, QPR possibly Leicester.
Admittedly it can turn from good to bad overnight for a lot of clubs, but we have to take the good whilst it's here. The signs currently are that we are on for another season where we can challenge for top 6 with a good manager and an owner who is willing to invest.

 

[CCFCAnalysis]

I don't disagree, but unless there's full exposure which is extremely unlikely then we will never know. That why said 'it feels like and we are lot more secure that on clubs in the EFL '
Looking at Hull, SWFC, QPR possibly Leicester.
Admittedly it can turn from good to bad overnight for a lot of clubs, but we have to take the good whilst it's here. The signs currently are that we are on for another season where we can challenge for top 6 with a good manager and an owner who is willing to invest.

QPR are actually very well ran financially. Christian Nourry is an exceptional CEO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hobo]

The thing is an owner can chase success by throwing money at players and potentially just down a black hole. Or they can try and grow the club on and off the pitch. Trying to increase the revenues and develop the commercial incomes. The thing is that sort of growth cannot be achieved overnight and takes time. We were lacking in so many areas at the end of SISU’s reign across the whole infrastructure of the club. But we do seem to be on the right track and showing progress.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I wouldn't say we're that secure. We are dependent on the owner to fund losses and have limited tenure on the stadium. The balance sheet is better though.

 

[shmmeee]

We’ve also had record transfer income and attendances and are likely to continue having it for a few seasons. Which helps a lot. Even if it’s all going back out again. I’d imagine the club is a lot more credit worthy than it once was.

 

[Hobo]

I wouldn't say we're that secure. We are dependent on the owner to fund losses and have limited tenure on the stadium. The balance sheet is better though.

But we seem more stable and showing growth in the right areas. We have to remember how much the backroom staff have grown which will have increased wages. We just seem to be set up more professionally now and in a relatively short space of time in terms of a business.

The lease is the biggest worry but I am sure it will be sorted as both parties need each other.

 

[Bad Boy]

In the Autumn of my life and my dearest wish is to see the club finally own the stadium.