Centre Forward (13 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Haji and Simms scored 19 goals a piece in 23/24, the pair were utilised well that season. They’ve not become bad players overnight imo.

Let's focus on the league because really thats where we need him to perform

Ellis has scored in 14 matches in 2 seasons .

However we spin this we need more consistency because even last season he had a huge barron spell and we cant afford that ever year

 

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[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Haji and Simms scored 19 goals a piece in 23/24, the pair were utilised well that season. They’ve not become bad players overnight imo.

What specifically about the tactics under FL are so detrimental to Wright and Simms then?

Haji has had 4 months out though this season. Which you keep on weirdly discounting. Signs of Simms' regression were apparent at the back end of last season which carried through to the beginning of this season under Robins.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Morris has some of the highest aerials won in the division this season and in general its something we struggle with from both Simms and wright .. but i agree we probably won't be signing carlton morris

You’re comparing apples and pears. Aerials win % doesn’t necessarily correlate to headed goals scored. Rudoni has 6 headed goals alone and if we played him upfront, he wouldn’t have a strong aerial win %. Likewise, Carlton Morris would have more goals than he does. He’s scored 2 headers this season.

It’s quite funny seeing you go all in on Morris because his stats are terrible, versus Simms:
- Total minutes played: 3,301 v 2,426
- Total goals: 8 v 7
- Penalty goals: 2 v 0
- Headed goals: 2 v 4
- MPG: 412 v 346
- Age: 29 v 24

Even if you knock off Simms’ cup goal (v Bristol), his MPG is still better. Bearing in mind Morris has only scored 6 open play goals, it’s not looking good.

All in all, I’m not convinced even if we’d sign Morris, it’d be a good signing. Haji Wright is also just a better player than of them.

 

[Evo1883]

You’re comparing apples and pears. Aerials win % doesn’t necessarily correlate to headed goals scored. Rudoni has 6 headed goals alone and if we played him upfront, he wouldn’t have a strong aerial win %. Likewise, Carlton Morris would have more goals than he does. He’s scored 2 headers this season.

It’s quite funny seeing you go all in on Morris because his stats are terrible, versus Simms:
- Total minutes played: 3,301 v 2,426
- Total goals: 8 v 7
- Penalty goals: 2 v 0
- Headed goals: 2 v 4
- MPG: 412 v 346
- Age: 29 v 24

Even if you knock off Simms’ cup goal (v Bristol), his MPG is still better. Bearing in mind Morris has only scored 6 open play goals, it’s not looking good.

All in all, I’m not convinced even if we’d sign Morris, it’d be a good signing. Haji Wright is also just a better player than of them.

Ofcourse Morris played in a team that was relegated, ive already stated hes had a bad season and i have stated i dont think we will sign him

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Let's focus on the league because really thats where we need him to perform

Ellis has scored in 14 matches in 2 seasons .

However we spin this we need more consistency because even last season he had a huge barron spell and we cant afford that ever year

If we’re doing this… Now do the same exercise Morris and Keiffer Moore. Spoiler: it’s not looking good.

Both players have scored penalties as well. I’m all up for hearing alternatives but when you and others keep landing on these two players, it’s jarring.

 

[jto123]

I'm not having this Wright not turning up for big games bollocks. He's just out of form. He's played well in big games for us before, Wolves Away for example. The guy had a shit injury, the type that lingers, who knows it was probably adrenaline that got him that hatrick in his return.

Let's not pretend that Vik made much impact in the 3 playoffs games he played either. Shit happens, bad timing for the form of our strikers that's all.

I'm not against always looking to upgrade but Wright is a fine player who is out of form/unfit that is all

I think it’s all relative to the amount he cost. I suppose where I have changed my mind from his form at the end of the season is that if a good enough offer came in, I would be keen to take and find a better alternative. Previously, I would have said we should not sell him under any circumstances.

 

[Evo1883]

If we’re doing this… Now do the same exercise Morris and Keiffer Moore. Spoiler: it’s not looking good.

Both players have scored penalties as well. I’m all up for hearing alternatives but when you and others keep landing on these two players, it’s jarring.

Well talking about players as an idea is just forum talk , reality is though for US is that ellis simply hasn't been good enough , he offers nothing outside of goals really and frank clearly doesnt rate him .

We have scouts and data driven databases that will identify other players , not Evo1883 on SBT

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What specifically about the tactics under FL are so detrimental to Wright and Simms then?

Haji has had 4 months out though this season. Which you keep on weirdly discounting. Signs of Simms' regression were apparent at the back end of last season which carried through to the beginning of this season under Robins.

I’m not an expert but comparing the goals we scored (specifically Simms & Wright) on the counter under Robins last season versus the goals we’ve scored under Lampard… last season, we put a lot more balls behind defences for players to run into and this season we’ve scored a lot of goals from crosses and set pieces. Hence why we’re top scorers of headed goals in Europe.

Haji Wright, BTA and Simms have all scored most of their goals playing in a formation that played 2 strikers. After all, most of Haji’s goals were under Robins/Carr. Under Lampard, BTA and Simms have yet to score a goal when we’ve played 4-2-3-1 which suggests to me there’s something fundamental we need to change tactically to get the most of our strikers.

At the end of last season, both Simms and Haji scored v Leeds. In the final 6 games of the season, Haji scored 1 goals and Simms 0. Was the song’s Haji was regressing there also?

Or alternatively, was it the team floundering as a whole? Yes, imo.

It’s not ‘weirdly discounting’ his injury at all. He’s been back playing since March so how long does he get a pass? It is factual to say that in the games since he and Simms have played together, Wright has missed more big chances than Simms.

More fundamentally, my point is that the issue is tactical. The same group of players who scored 50 goals last season have only mustered 25 between them is concerning. Haji Wright’s decreased production is probably down to missing 20+ games but his post-Lampard stats are concerning.

Just as Lampard deserves heaps of praise for how he’s developed players like JDS, Rudoni and others, the questions around the strikers need to be asked.

 

[Evo1883]

I’m not an expert but comparing the goals we scored (specifically Simms & Wright) on the counter under Robins last season versus the goals we’ve scored under Lampard… last season, we put a lot more balls behind defences for players to run into and this season we’ve scored a lot of goals from crosses and set pieces. Hence why we’re top scorers of headed goals in Europe.

Haji Wright, BTA and Simms have all scored most of their goals playing in a formation that played 2 strikers. After all, most of Haji’s goals were under Robins/Carr. Under Lampard, BTA and Simms have yet to score a goal when we’ve played 4-2-3-1 which suggests to me there’s something fundamental we need to change tactically to get the most of our strikers.

At the end of last season, both Simms and Haji scored v Leeds. In the final 6 games of the season, Haji scored 1 goals and Simms 0. Was the song’s Haji was regressing there also?

Or alternatively, was it the team floundering as a whole? Yes, imo.

It’s not ‘weirdly discounting’ his injury at all. He’s been back playing since March so how long does he get a pass? It is factual to say that in the games since he and Simms have played together, Wright has missed more big chances than Simms.

More fundamentally, my point is that the issue is tactical. The same group of players who scored 50 goals last season have only mustered 25 between them is concerning. Haji Wright’s decreased production is probably down to missing 20+ games but his post-Lampard stats are concerning.

Just as Lampard deserves heaps of praise for how he’s developed players like JDS, Rudoni and others, the questions around the strikers need to be asked.

If the strikers were more clinical we dont have this chat full stop .. they are as much to blame as any system

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Riis and Salech signing as our 2 centre forward options would be fantastic business and a big upgrade.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Well talking about players as an idea is just forum talk , reality is though for US is that ellis simply hasn't been good enough , he offers nothing outside of goals really and frank clearly doesnt rate him .

We have scouts and data driven databases that will identify other players , not Evo1883 on SBT

Simms is on a 4 year contract, his first season was, overall, a success. Second season, we will agree (overall), has not been good enough. I doubt the club will give up on him because as I’ve laid out in a previous post, when we’ve played 4-2-3-1, we’ve struggled to get our strikers scoring.

Simms and BTA have literally failed to score under Lampard when we’ve not played 5-3-2. Haji Wright has scored 5 in 14 which looks better than it actually is since he got a hattrick v Sunderland.

The club can’t take losses on 3 strikers and more pertinently, if multiple players are struggling in the same position, the first port of call needs to be our tactical approach.

My optimistic view is that Lampard will get the chance to work on this in preseason and bring in some players to operate more effectively in the final third.

 

[Evo1883]

Simms is on a 4 year contract, his first season was, overall, a success. Second season, we will agree (overall), has not been good enough. I doubt the club will give up on him because as I’ve laid out in a previous post, when we’ve played 4-2-3-1, we’ve struggled to get our strikers scoring.

Simms and BTA have literally failed to score under Lampard when we’ve not played 5-3-2. Haji Wright has scored 5 in 14 which looks better than it actually is since he got a hattrick v Sunderland.

The club can’t take losses on 3 strikers and more pertinently, if multiple players are struggling in the same position, the first port of call needs to be our tactical approach.

My optimistic view is that Lampard will get the chance to work on this in preseason and bring in some players to operate more effectively in the final third.

Haji hasn't played every game through the middle either , haji plays wide like sakamoto some games .

I do feel you are going around every other reason that ellis is playing poor rather than the actual reason that he simply isnt a consistent goalscorer and probably never will be

In 2 seasons the most consistent thing are the barron spells

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

If the strikers were more clinical we dont have this chat full stop .. they are as much to blame as any system

If Gyokeres only had 1 big chance a game, chances are he wouldn’t have scored as many as he had in 22/23.

Good strikers will miss big chances and we really need to be giving them 2-4 big chances a game. Our xG has taken a bit of a hit in the past weeks which tells me we’re creating less.

 

[Evo1883]

If Gyokeres only had 1 big chance a game, chances are he wouldn’t have scored as many as he had in 22/23.

Good strikers will miss big chances and we really need to be giving them 2-4 big chances a game. Our xG has taken a bit of a hit in the past weeks which tells me we’re creating less.

Gyokeres offered so so so much more than goals , ellis has never and will never be on that level

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Haji hasn't played every game through the middle either , haji plays wide like sakamoto some games .

I do feel you are going around every other reason that ellis is playing poor rather than the actual reason that he simply isnt a consistent goalscorer and probably never will be

In 2 seasons the most consistent thing are the barron spells

You’re making this about it Simms. I’m talking more generally about Wright, Simms and BTA.

Based off what you’ve seen from Wright when he’s played as the lone striker are convinced he’ll be a 15-20 goal a season striker? If the answer is no, it should concern you because he is at that level and proved it last year and this season under Robins/Carr.

 

[Evo1883]

You’re making this about it Simms. I’m talking more generally about Wright, Simms and BTA.

Based off what you’ve seen from Wright when he’s played as the lone striker are convinced he’ll be a 15-20 goal a season striker? If the answer is no, it should concern you because he is at that level and proved it last year and this season under Robins/Carr.

But wright doesn't always play through the middle for us , hence why im suggesting wright cant be judged in the same way

He missed a big chance on 92 last night to take us to Wembley though , so had the chance

 

[Grendel]

I’m not an expert but comparing the goals we scored (specifically Simms & Wright) on the counter under Robins last season versus the goals we’ve scored under Lampard… last season, we put a lot more balls behind defences for players to run into and this season we’ve scored a lot of goals from crosses and set pieces. Hence why we’re top scorers of headed goals in Europe.

Haji Wright, BTA and Simms have all scored most of their goals playing in a formation that played 2 strikers. After all, most of Haji’s goals were under Robins/Carr. Under Lampard, BTA and Simms have yet to score a goal when we’ve played 4-2-3-1 which suggests to me there’s something fundamental we need to change tactically to get the most of our strikers.

At the end of last season, both Simms and Haji scored v Leeds. In the final 6 games of the season, Haji scored 1 goals and Simms 0. Was the song’s Haji was regressing there also?

Or alternatively, was it the team floundering as a whole? Yes, imo.

It’s not ‘weirdly discounting’ his injury at all. He’s been back playing since March so how long does he get a pass? It is factual to say that in the games since he and Simms have played together, Wright has missed more big chances than Simms.

More fundamentally, my point is that the issue is tactical. The same group of players who scored 50 goals last season have only mustered 25 between them is concerning. Haji Wright’s decreased production is probably down to missing 20+ games but his post-Lampard stats are concerning.

Just as Lampard deserves heaps of praise for how he’s developed players like JDS, Rudoni and others, the questions around the strikers need to be asked.

Last season Simms scored 2 goals against QPR which was his only contribution in 25 games under the system deployed by Robins

This season he scored 3 (2 in the league) in the 14 games Robins played him

Its a dire record

 

[Evo1883]

I would bet money on wright scoring 15 goals through the middle across 46 league games , yes .. I wouldnt bet money on simms doing the same

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Gyokeres offered so so so much more than goals , ellis has never and will never be on that level

That’s not the point and again, you’re making this about Simms.

If we only created one or 2 big chances a game for Vik, he wouldn’t have scored 23 goals in 22/23 and we wouldn’t have got the money for did for him.

As great as Vik was that season, he had a 10 game barren spell and had the highest ‘big chances missed’ by quite a distance.

You’re right, he offered so much more than goals, but if that team wasn’t so lethal on the counter to create so many good chances for him… he wouldn’t have been as great for us.

Simms has already proved he can score 15-20 goals down the middle for us last season.

 

[TomRad85]

Riis and Salech signing as our 2 centre forward options would be fantastic business and a big upgrade.

I knew Salech was good just from the eye test but his individual stats are incredibly impressive when you start looking into them.

 

[Evo1883]

That’s not the point and again, you’re making this about Simms.

If we only created one or 2 big chances a game for Vik, he wouldn’t have scored 23 goals in 22/23 and we wouldn’t have got the money for did for him.

As great as Vik was that season, he had a 10 game barren spell and had the highest ‘big chances missed’ by quite a distance.

You’re right, he offered so much more than goals, but if that team wasn’t so lethal on the counter to create so many good chances for him… he wouldn’t have been as great for us.

I'm making it about simms because wright is a better player than simms and simms is the one we need to replace as priority

I doubt wright's bad form would last 3 quarters of a season

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I'm making it about simms because wright is a better player than simms and simms is the one we need to replace as priority

I doubt wright's bad form would last 3 quarters of a season

It’s not happening and Wright will almost definitely start the season as a lone striker if he stays this season.

 

[Evo1883]

It’s not happening and Wright will almost definitely start the season as a lone striker if he stays this season.

And id feel pretty confident he would score 15 plus in 46 games

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Last season Simms scored 2 goals against QPR which was his only contribution in 25 games under the system deployed by Robins

This season he scored 3 (2 in the league) in the 14 games Robins played him

Its a dire record

It’s a dire record when you willingly airbrush the part of the season he scored 17 goals…

 

[Connorcov_00]

If we got our money back on haji and Wycombe stayed down wouldn't go amiss us having a go at getting richard kone only 21 and league 1 player of the season, very hungry player given his background and could end up being to us what the toney signing was to Brentford when they were trying to get over the hump.

Sent from my SM-S911B using Tapatalk

 

[Evo1883]

It’s a dire record when you willingly airbrush the part of the season he scored 17 goals…

Mate we need our strikers to perform in the league our bread and butter not against Maidstone

You fiercely defend the indefensible

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

And id feel pretty confident he would score 15 plus in 46 games

I hope you’re right but his post-Lampard numbers concern me, just as they do with all of our strikers.

 

[Grendel]

I'm making it about simms because wright is a better player than simms and simms is the one we need to replace as priority

I doubt wright's bad form would last 3 quarters of a season

Exactly - I cannot defend Hajis performances over those games but you know he can and will perform again

Simms as a number 9 is never the answer whatever formation. Awful touch, terrible back to goal and poor in the air. Despite his physical presence he offers no physicality at all. A strange player and we need better.

 

[Grendel]

I hope you’re right but his post-Lampard numbers concern me, just as they do with all of our strikers.

He scored 2 in his first 25 under Robins!

 

[Evo1883]

I hope you’re right but his post-Lampard numbers concern me, just as they do with all of our strikers.

Hes scored 4 in his last 6 centre forward appearances

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Hes scored 4 in his last 6 centre forward appearances

At this point though is it not worth considering the Sunderland game as an anomaly in those stats?

 

[Evo1883]

At this point though is it not worth considering the Sunderland game as an anomaly in those stats?

Ok let's give him 1 goal its 2 in his last 6 cf appearances whilst being out of form

Thats still 15 goals in a season

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He scored 2 in his first 25 under Robins!

I was talking about Wright here…

 

[Grendel]

I was talking about Wright here…

I am talking about Simms - how is it tactical when he has scored in one game in 25 under another manager?

Explain

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

It might help Simms and to a lesser extent weight if the wingers could cross the ball with their other foot instead of always coming inside to cross as they will be able to run onto the ball instead of flicking it on, Rudoni starts deeper so it doesn’t matter as much to him.

I want Simms to succeed but he hasn’t got the killer instinct if he knocked the keeper over he would picking him up I want my strikers standing on his hands.