Andy Thorn back....

[Brighton Sky Blue]

At the begining of the season BSB, how long did you say AT should have before he should be sacked if it is not happening.

I'm sure you could dig it out Don. You'll also see I've criticised TF/SW plenty of times for the way they handled it and dithering over replacing him.

 

[Sick Boy]

You're obviously quite easily confused

It was a quite reasonable decision to appoint Thorn after the way he turned around a side that had looked destined for relegation (in my view).

The problem was that the Board then decided to drastically cut the playing squad.

The second decision undermined the first.

Perhaps Thorn would have failed with a side that included King, Turner, Juke and a decent player to replace Gunna (who I thought was always going to leave) and perhaps he'd have succeeded. We'll never know.

I am sure that we will soon find out when he if offered his next job in management, I am sure that we won't be waiting too long before someone snaps up a man of such talent. After all, a highly knowledgeable minority on here and Ken Dulieu obviously believe in him....I am just surprised that he hasn't been put in charge for one of the jobs he has applied for so far.

 

[dongonzalos]

I'm sure you could dig it out Don. You'll also see I've criticised TF/SW plenty of times for the way they handled it and dithering over replacing him.

No I can't be bothered, did you think three games was about right. Or were you saying ten.

The way I remember it, Grendel to be fair to him was saying 3 games.

I was suggesting with 9 New signings you would be able to properly judge by Xmas.

I thought you were a ten game man.

Now it seems after 3 games you are able to say MR is doing better than AT with these players.

TBF to AT he had 3 games with them.

I think it is your opinion he us doing better but you can't really say. It's almost impossible to judge a manager on 3 games

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I can't be bothered, did you think three games was about right. Or were you saying ten.

The way I remember it, Grendel to be fair to him was saying 3 games.

I was suggesting with 9 New signings you would be able to properly judge by Xmas.

I thought you were a ten game man.

Now it seems after 3 games you are able to say MR is doing better than AT with these players.

TBF to AT he had 3 games with them.

I think it is your opinion he us doing better but you can't really say. It's almost impossible to judge a manager on 3 games

MR has had considerably more than 3 games. The fact of the matter is that Thorn is long gone now yet people seem to be more behind him than the current manager.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I am sure that we will soon find out when he if offered his next job in management, I am sure that we won't be waiting too long before someone snaps up a man of such talent. After all, a highly knowledgeable minority on here and Ken Dulieu obviously believe in him....I am just surprised that he hasn't been put in charge for one of the jobs he has applied for so far.

Yes, I've noticed you trot out this line on a number of occassions.

I presume that you were dead set against the appointment of Robins given that he'd not been snapped up in the 18 months or so he was out of management - and so was, by your reckoning, obviously not "a man of such talent".

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes, I've noticed you trot out this line on a number of occassions.

I presume that you were dead set against the appointment of Robins given that he'd not been snapped up in the 18 months or so he was out of management - and so was, by your reckoning, obviously not "a man of such talent".

Hardly, I thought that Robins should have been given the job after Boothroyd was sacked.

 

[dongonzalos]

MR has had considerably more than 3 games. The fact of the matter is that Thorn is long gone now yet people seem to be more behind him than the current manager.

I am fully behind MR and really like what he says in interviews. However that dies mean I will not defend AT if I think unfair comments are made on here.

You said AT's replacement is doing a better job than him. I don't see how you can compare. I suppose you could pick 3 games where he won. Or someone else could pick three games where he has done worse than AT.

My point is you can't judge a manager over three games. Not unless it was something like 3, 5 nil defeats.

 

[Sick Boy]

Who has been judged after only three games?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I am fully behind MR and really like what he says in interviews. However that dies mean I will not defend AT if I think unfair comments are made on here.

You said AT's replacement is doing a better job than him. I don't see how you can compare. I suppose you could pick 3 games where he won. Or someone else could pick three games where he has done worse than AT.

My point is you can't judge a manager over three games. Not unless it was something like 3, 5 nil defeats.

But AT had a lot more than 3 games didn't he? Personally I wish Thorn hadn't gone and done a 'please feel sorry for me' radio interview as he frankly has no relevance for discussion as far as we are concerned-but that is the nature of the man. Never acknowledged his own shortcomings as manager even now.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Hardly, I thought that Robins should have been given the job after Boothroyd was sacked.

Yes, I would also have been happy with that - incidentally it was strongly rumoured that RR favoured him too.

I was just thinking that your faith in him must have been tested by him not being "snapped up" by another club over such a long period - given that it seems you hold this measure in such high regard with respect to Thorn.

 

[Nick]

How do we know that half of that interview wasnt bullshit?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Who has been judged after only three games?

True, Thorn was given four games with the new squad.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

How do we know that half of that interview wasnt bullshit?

Sadly over recent years, it seems that much of what is said about CCFC by those in the know (or those who should be in the know) is (choosing his words carefully) open to debate.

 

[dongonzalos]

How do we know that half of that interview wasnt bullshit?

Because there is a right to reply and if it was bullshit on national radio, someone would reply.

Also Karl Pilkington never appeared as bullshit man

 

[dongonzalos]

But AT had a lot more than 3 games didn't he? Personally I wish Thorn hadn't gone and done a 'please feel sorry for me' radio interview as he frankly has no relevance for discussion as far as we are concerned-but that is the nature of the man. Never acknowledged his own shortcomings as manager even now.

Did you say he should have been judged after 10 games.

You seem a rational and intelligent person. I can't believe you would not have considered this season as a
different entity to last season.

Yes you can't completely discount last season. However any rational thinking person would not think.

Bolt on 3 games from last season make your decision.

Please correct me if I an wrong but I am prety sure you said at least 10 games.

If you did that would have been for good reason.

 

[Sick Boy]

Yes, I would also have been happy with that - incidentally it was strongly rumoured that RR favoured him too.

I was just thinking that your faith in him must have been tested by him not being "snapped up" by another club over such a long period - given that it seems you hold this measure in such high regard with respect to Thorn.

I preferred to concentrate what he had actually achieved with Barnsley on a tight budget, as it was obvious that there was going to be more cost-cutting (as has happened every season).

The comments about being 'snapped up' are in reference to some of the wild claims that were posted on here about his ability as a manager...'best since Hill, Sillett', 'the claims about storming the league if he was WHU manager' etc.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Did you say he should have been judged after 10 games.

You seem a rational and intelligent person. I can't believe you would not have considered this season as a
different entity to last season.

Yes you can't completely discount last season. However any rational thinking person would not think.

Bolt on 3 games from last season make your decision.

Please correct me if I an wrong but I am prety sure you said at least 10 games.

If you did that would have been for good reason.

In an ideal situation he would've been dismissed in April, as I've said earlier. That I've also criticised the board's handling of his sacking and replacement is kind of implicit in my thinking that 3 games probably wasn't adequate-but we have no idea of what was going on behind the scenes so his sacking may well have been justified for reasons other than results-we just don't know. What amplified it was faffing around with a new manager whilst the out-of-depth Shaw properly derailed things; regardless of how this season ultimately pans out Fisher/Waggott will draw criticism from me for how they handled things from April through to August.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

No he wasn't. He was allowed 0% of his preferred strike force for example. Hardly freedom of the city, eh?

And his successor's success has been greatly assisted by virtue of one if the players arriving Waggott was unwilling or unable to secure during Thorn's tenure.

As I state, myopic hyperbole

We signed McG when he was a available, Waggott didn't not sign McG because Thorn was our manager. Rediculous.

 

[dongonzalos]

In an ideal situation he would've been dismissed in April, as I've said earlier. That I've also criticised the board's handling of his sacking and replacement is kind of implicit in my thinking that 3 games probably wasn't adequate-but we have no idea of what was going on behind the scenes so his sacking may well have been justified for reasons other than results-we just don't know. What amplified it was faffing around with a new manager whilst the out-of-depth Shaw properly derailed things; regardless of how this season ultimately pans out Fisher/Waggott will draw criticism from me for how they handled things from April through to August.

That bit winds me up no end and their decision to sack a manager they allowed to sign technically 10 players after 3 matches. Followed by 5 defeats whilst they carried out a drawn out recruitiment process.

I have to say if we don't get to the play offs. I hope they are held fully accountable.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That bit winds me up no end and their decision to sack a manager they allowed to sign technically 10 players after 3 matches. Followed by 5 defeats whilst they carried out a drawn out recruitiment process.

I have to say if we don't get to the play offs. I hope they are held fully accountable.

They lacked the courage to dismiss Thorn at a time when a new manager could've had the biggest possible impact-and then when they did, they made a hash of eventually appointing what seems to be the right man. Have to say that play-off chances were dealt a major blow in those first 10 games with the result that a mid-table finish would be a good achievement.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I preferred to concentrate what he had actually achieved with Barnsley on a tight budget, as it was obvious that there was going to be more cost-cutting (as has happened every season).

The comments about being 'snapped up' are in reference to some of the wild claims that were posted on here about his ability as a manager...'best since Hill, Sillett', 'the claims about storming the league if he was WHU manager' etc.

I don't claim to read every post on this site, but I can't recall any "AT is the best since Hill" posts for quite some time - so if I understand you correctly that your posts referred to above are a deliberate overstatement in response to them, perhaps you can drop them now

 

[Nick]

Does anybody actually believe they text him to go to a room but he didnt get the text and when he got there they had gone?

I wouldnt believe a thing either are saying to be fair!

 

[Sick Boy]

Does anybody actually believe they text him to go to a room but he didnt get the text and when he got there they had gone?

I wouldnt believe a thing either are saying to be fair!

It sounds very far-fetched.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I guess the key "fact" was that he was sacked by phone.

Presumably if that wasn't true there would have been a statement from the club refuting it.

 

[Sick Boy]

I don't really see how it is important or any of our concern how he was sacked, what difference does it make to us, Mark Robins and the current players?

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Personally I'm interested in how the club is being run.

I've had to tell a good number of people that they were out of a job. I've never enjoyed it but I always tried to do it so that they kept the most dignity - for the avoidance of doubt this would exclude doing it by phone.

I think these sort of things can give a good insight into the standards of the people who are in charge. Personally, this would make a difference to me, I have no idea if it makes a difference to Mark Robins.

Apparently it is of no interest to you. Fair enough.

 

[Sick Boy]

What do you think about being asked to go to the board room and no one was there? Do you believe that was actually true?

The truth is that none of us know exactly what happened, and we have only heard what Thorn has had to say about it. Didn't he say he went to see Fisher and told him 'exactly what he thought' or something?

Personally I don't see how going on national radio and going for the sympathy vote is very dignified. We all know that he was the given the chance of managing a Championship club here, something which most likely would not have happened under other owners.

If he was able to be critical of the way in which the club was being run, whilst at the same time holding his hands up and admitting that he too made mistakes, I could perhaps have some respect for the man. He has never once admitted to being in any way responsible for anything that happened whilst he was manager, he continually passed the blame onto others, even once blasting younger members of the squad in the media. Listening to the interview made me cringe and personally I am very glad that we are rid of him.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I dont think you should ever sack or discipline an employee by text or phone, it has to be face to face. However i do wonder if there was some reticence on AT's part to have a meeting that weekend...... he didnt get the sack because of 45 minutes against Bury, there were surely other contributing factors. What really compounded it was taking 6 games to replace him and that brings the "3 game only" chorus into focus. Does TF or SISU need to comment on it all ..... not really it is done and dusted. His "truth" and their "truth" is always going to differ and neither truth is likely to be complete or totally accurate. He had his contract settled and it would be sensible for both parties to involve the LMA to ensure that part of things was settled as quickly as possible so the club can move on.

Can i suggest we settle this quickly and move on also ..... it was a job for someone nothing more, and we now have someone else making team decisions - and being reasonably successful at it for a change

 

[Grendel]

I don't claim to read every post on this site, but I can't recall any "AT is the best since Hill" posts for quite some time - so if I understand you correctly that your posts referred to above are a deliberate overstatement in response to them, perhaps you can drop them now

CJ Parker said it

 

[Sick Boy]

The West Ham one would be good for a laugh as well!

 

[Grendel]

The West Ham one would be good for a laugh as well!

Also that the fans were singing "Andy Thorn's Sky Blue Army" at Brentford and that he will come back and save us again like he did 2 years ago.

:claping hands::claping hands:

 

[sky blue john]

I don't really see how it is important or any of our concern how he was sacked, what difference does it make to us, Mark Robins and the current players?

Exactly your right over done with so why are you and others continiously bagging on about it. I can't believe how much hate there is for AT when other recent managers have got away scot free. The likes of Coleman, Dowie and AB all had far more transfer funds and far better players at their disposal and failed to even get close to the championship play offs.

 

[Grendel]

How do we know that half of that interview wasnt bullshit?

Harsh

Next you'll be telling us that Malaga wasn't being chased by a Premier League Club, Cody McDonald won't be top scorer in the League, Alex Nimeley didn't join another Premier League club, Marlon King didn't sign another contract with us and Cody wasn't always our number one target.

The last one probably is true looking at the signings made this season.

 

[dongonzalos]

The West Ham one would be good for a laugh as well!

I said the west ham one, glad I cheered you up.

 

[Grendel]

That bit winds me up no end and their decision to sack a manager they allowed to sign technically 10 players after 3 matches. Followed by 5 defeats whilst they carried out a drawn out recruitiment process.

I have to say if we don't get to the play offs. I hope they are held fully accountable.

There is an assumption the Thorn would have mirrored Robins record he had not been bulleted. Sorry that is trash. Also why keep saying 5 defeats when it was 4?

Can you explain also how Thorn in charge would have beaten Stevenage when the referee cost us the game and are you seriously saying we would have beaten Crewe and Tranmere away? Based on what?

At least stop saying 5 games its 4!