Hoffman- Plenty of free time now. (1 Viewer)

[lordsummerisle]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...se-as-Lloyds-agrees-terms-with-the-Co-op.html

Should be able to dedicate his time to getting the Chinese investors on board now.

 

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[Danceswithhorses]

Especially as he was apparently paid £2.8m...that should tide him over his period of unemployment

 

[Otis]

That should tide him over until he uses said £2.8 million towards buying the club himself.

 

[SkyBlueJohnso]

could this not of been a way for hoffman to raise funds for part of his takeover plan? could be looked upon both ways i guess!

 

[Sick Boy]

could this not of been a way for hoffman to raise funds for part of his takeover plan? could be looked upon both ways i guess!

hahahahahaha!!!

 

[SkyBlueJohnso]

hahahahahaha!!!

tomrrows CET headlines 'Hoffman pulls out of CCFC takeover deal due to failed bank bid'

 

[lordsummerisle]

Especially as he was apparently paid £2.8m...that should tide him over his period of unemployment

Lost £23million last year, and only 40% of investment going back to it's investors apparently.

 

[Sick Boy]

Lost £23million last year, and only 40% of investment going back to it's investors apparently.

He was highly successful when he was on the board here though, Hoffman & Ranson were kept in the dark the whole time.

 

[lordsummerisle]

He was highly successful when he was on the board here though, Hoffman & Ranson were kept in the dark the whole time.

They do have a lot of similarities, both trousered a load of money from companies that they ran that lost a lot of money.

 

[dadgad]

MAYBE not.
According to today's Guardian he is 2-1 (Ladbrokes) to take over at Barclays. ?

 

[skybluedan]

he aint doing fuck all for us, he is full of wank

 

[BurbageSkyBlues]

Nice.......

 

[mark82]

he aint doing feck all for us, he is full of wank

Classy. Give the guy a break. He has tried, he cannot afford to do it on his own. SISU don't actually want to sell & you cannot force them to do so.

 

[ashbyjan]

Hoff has tried and tried real hard and we should be grateful for his efforts but, unfortunately, no one in their right mind wants to go near this financial disaster of a club nor do business with those fine trustworthy upstanding professionals from SISU.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Hoff has tried and tried real hard and we should be grateful for his efforts but, unfortunately, no one in their right mind wants to go near this financial disaster of a club nor do business with those fine trustworthy upstanding professionals from SISU.

Hoffman did,for three years, not in his right mind?


You never did say Jan who told you that if the SOC had any dealings with the club whatsover then Hoffman and Elliott would have nothing to do with you?

 

[Godiva]

Hoff has tried and tried real hard and we should be grateful for his efforts but, unfortunately, no one in their right mind wants to go near this financial disaster of a club nor do business with those fine trustworthy upstanding professionals from SISU.

Hoffman did,for three years, not in his right mind?

And if somebody needs proof of how hard he tried, they just need to look at the newly published accounts. They are an exact testiment to what he and Ranson and Elliott achieved over the three years they ran the club.

 

[skybluedan]

how do you no he has tried and tried? none of us no fuck all,if he was gonna takeover it would of been along time ago, these things take time but ffs your having a laugh,I am not hoffman lover or hater and would love for him to save us from these utter cunts but for me its all bollox mate

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

And if somebody needs proof of how hard he tried, they just need to look at the newly published accounts. They are an exact testiment to what he and Ranson and Elliott achieved over the three years they ran the club.

And all that time the nice people at SISU (who,after all, controlled the club) had no idea what was going on..............

 

[Godiva]

And all that time the nice people at SISU (who,after all, controlled the club) had no idea what was going on..............

Yes, but they couldn't control it as they only had one vote at the board.
Sisu's job was to provide funding within the businessplan - Ranson's (and the rest of the board whereof only one member was a sisu appointee) job was to run the club, keep within the budgets and live on the agreed financing. Three years down the line the money was gone, the funding used up and the losses bleeding the club to death. The holy trinity left the board, but the newly published accounts is their legacy.

 

[theprince]

Takes time, a buyers market and say what you like about GH and his various banking ventures SISU are dealing with a pro. who has clout, contacts and experience. He said, one of the few things he has said on this issue. When there is something to say possitive or negative he will say it. For me at this moment in time Silence is Golden, b-side of Rag Doll and a number one for the Tremeloes.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, but they couldn't control it as they only had one vote at the board.
Sisu's job was to provide funding within the businessplan - Ranson's (and the rest of the board whereof only one member was a sisu appointee) job was to run the club, keep within the budgets and live on the agreed financing. Three years down the line the money was gone, the funding used up and the losses bleeding the club to death. The holy trinity left the board, but the newly published accounts is their legacy.

For the first few years, it actually went to plan with the huge profits garnered from Fox and Dann, a young and competitive squad with a (supposedly) young and talented manager. But for a horrendous late season collapse we would conceivably have made the play-offs in 2009. Another late season debacle shot us down the table in 2010 too. The model Ranson wanted to apply was a sound one, but when reinvestment of the profits didn't come, it fell apart very quickly to the current state of affairs. His ProZone business generated us a nice profit over the years, too.

 

[theprince]

GRENDEL ? Strange name where did that come from ? Now Grenden is a suburb of Leicester !!

 

[Sick Boy]

GRENDEL ? Strange name where did that come from ? Now Grenden is a suburb of Leicester !!

It is from Beowulf, you uneducated buffoon.

 

[Grendel]

It is from Beowulf, you uneducated buffoon.

He probably thinks Beowulf is near Wolverhampton,

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Yes, but they couldn't control it as they only had one vote at the board.
Sisu's job was to provide funding within the businessplan - Ranson's (and the rest of the board whereof only one member was a sisu appointee) job was to run the club, keep within the budgets and live on the agreed financing. Three years down the line the money was gone, the funding used up and the losses bleeding the club to death. The holy trinity left the board, but the newly published accounts is their legacy.

So you are honestly suggesting that they would provide the funding but would allow themselves to be outvoted at the Board. If so, then they are even more stupid than I thought.

 

[TommyAtkins]

He was highly successful when he was on the board here though, Hoffman & Ranson were kept in the dark the whole time.

Absolute nonsense.

This was Ranson's plan, backed by SISU.

SISU pulled the plug, wisely, when Ranson's plan delivered no improvement on the pitch. All we had were relegation battles and continual operating losses

 

[Godiva]

Yes, but they couldn't control it as they only had one vote at the board.
Sisu's job was to provide funding within the businessplan - Ranson's (and the rest of the board whereof only one member was a sisu appointee) job was to run the club, keep within the budgets and live on the agreed financing. Three years down the line the money was gone, the funding used up and the losses bleeding the club to death. The holy trinity left the board, but the newly published accounts is their legacy.

So you are honestly suggesting that they would provide the funding but would allow themselves to be outvoted at the Board. If so, then they are even more stupid than I thought.

Missed your response Tommy, but now I've seen it so let me explain:

You cannot believe sisu didn't set up the show initially holding full control themself.
Well, you need to remember that there were actually two parties injecting values at the take over - sisu and Ranson.
It would be a dealbreaker for Ranson to inject Prozone and then leave every decision open to a potential veto by sisu. Think about for a minute - would you do it?
On the other hand, sisu didn't know anything about football (think of them as bankers), so their usual practice is to have a board with professionels running the operation within the budgets and financial plans.
Both investors (sisu and Ranson) agreed to the plans and the budgets before they put their marks on the take over documents and it's within the budgets you find sisu's means of control.

As long as the board ran the operation within the budgets, they triggered the planned financial installments (tranching). But when the income failed and costs wasn't control'ed accordingly sisu were no longer obliged to pump in more funds - and then they used their only real power: Stopped the funding.

So in the daily operation sisu had nothing to offer and therefore didn't require majority vote. They happily relied on the professionals like Ranson, Hoffmann, Elliott and who else was on the board.

 

[Godiva]

... and Tommy, can I turn your attention to FAQ-1, The Beginning?
The second post in that thread:

Based on the 'facts' above I would like to point out a few things.

SISU tried to do what investors normally do - provide the money and then sit back and let 'the professionals' run the operation.
They did it knowing that if the professional ... aka Ranson ... failed, he stood to lose more than just his pride.
SISU had 1 rep at the board and with a simple voting system they couldn't block/veto any decision within the business operation.

Ranson (Chairman), Hoffman (Vice Chairman) and Elliott could act as a unit and outvote SISU at any point.
This changed this year when Ken Dulieu and Len Brody replaced Elliott and Parkin. From that point Ranson lost his majority as seen in the decision to let Thomas go out on loan at Liverpool. That vote resulted in a 3-2 decision (Igwe, Brody, Dulieu vs Ranson, Hoffman).

My point is this, many on this board blame SISU for all the strange and bad decisions made the past three years, yet they hope for Hoffman and Elliott to come back in a hostile takeover.
Be carefull what you wish for ....

 

[skybluejack10]

would be amazing if he did invest into cov!
joe elliot was saying the other day that he had 3 different groups of investors each pondering an investment into the club but elliot is a bit of a billy bullshitter 90% of the time!

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Missed your response Tommy, but now I've seen it so let me explain:

You cannot believe sisu didn't set up the show initially holding full control themself.
Well, you need to remember that there were actually two parties injecting values at the take over - sisu and Ranson.
It would be a dealbreaker for Ranson to inject Prozone and then leave every decision open to a potential veto by sisu. Think about for a minute - would you do it?
On the other hand, sisu didn't know anything about football (think of them as bankers), so their usual practice is to have a board with professionels running the operation within the budgets and financial plans.
Both investors (sisu and Ranson) agreed to the plans and the budgets before they put their marks on the take over documents and it's within the budgets you find sisu's means of control.

As long as the board ran the operation within the budgets, they triggered the planned financial installments (tranching). But when the income failed and costs wasn't control'ed accordingly sisu were no longer obliged to pump in more funds - and then they used their only real power: Stopped the funding.

So in the daily operation sisu had nothing to offer and therefore didn't require majority vote. They happily relied on the professionals like Ranson, Hoffmann, Elliott and who else was on the board.

I have a feeling that we're never going to agree on this, but what the hell.....

Your position appears to be (and I apologise in advance for the paraphrase) that SISU provided the finance and left all operational matters to the "football experts" and that therefore all (or at least, pretty much all) the blame for our current predicament lies with RR, GH and JE.

So I find myself trying to imagine the conversation that SISU would have had with their investors:

SISU - We've got this great idea to invest in a football club
Investors - Sounds a bit risky. Easy to lose some pretty large sums there. What's your plan?
SISU - We've found some football experts to run it for us.
Investors - Sounds good. What's their experience?
SISU - Well the main guy used to be a footballer.
Investors - That's good and how many clubs has he run since he stopped playing.
SISU - Err, none - but he's been involved in insurance and he's run some sort of sports science company.
Investors - Hmmmm. So the experience comes from the other guys then.
SISU - Oh they're perfect. The first one - admittedly he'll only be a NED - he's had some senior banking roles.
Investors - And his experience in running football clubs?
SISU - Well not exactly in running them, but he watches this club a lot and he's even got a season ticket.
Investors - And the other one?
SISU - Great guy. Made his money selling motor parts. Loves the club - been involved with them for years and he's even been on the Board the last few years.
Investors - That sounds more promising. So he's got a track record of success with them then.
SISU - well not exactly, if we don't buy them, they'll be in administration.
Investors - This is sounding a bit worrying. Your going to have to exert some pretty serious control over all this.
SISU - Don't worry we have a plan.
Investors - Which is?
SISU - We're going to set up the Board so that they can outvote us on all issues and we've decided not to bother with any of those messy controls that companies like us normally insist on in investors' agreements.
Investors - Well sounds great to me. Would you like a cheque for £30m?

 

[Godiva]

Tommy, that really made me laugh! Great humor!

But no, we will probably never agree and it is unlikely they will show us their shareholder agreement (maybe somebody could ask Hoffman at the next game?).

Let me just add, that the 'simple voting' system is the most used system when more shareholders are involved.
It is much more uncommon votes are distributed to reflect the amount of shares, and then it is mostly when the investors are private individuals or if the setup is a co-orperation between industrial partners.

You argue that sisu's investors would not be happy with this system, but I don't think they know how the club is run ... they have placed an amount in sisu's care and a small percentage was put into one of the funds that owns the club. And even if they were presented with a plan, budget and everything before they put in their money, they would probably feel more safe with Ranson at the helm than sisu's investment managers.

And again, sisu's ultimate control was in the budgets. If Ranson had kept the financials within the agreed budgets he would still be here.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Tommy, that really made me laugh! Great humor!

But no, we will probably never agree and it is unlikely they will show us their shareholder agreement (maybe somebody could ask Hoffman at the next game?).

Let me just add, that the 'simple voting' system is the most used system when more shareholders are involved.
It is much more uncommon votes are distributed to reflect the amount of shares, and then it is mostly when the investors are private individuals or if the setup is a co-orperation between industrial partners.

You argue that sisu's investors would not be happy with this system, but I don't think they know how the club is run ... they have placed an amount in sisu's care and a small percentage was put into one of the funds that owns the club. And even if they were presented with a plan, budget and everything before they put in their money, they would probably feel more safe with Ranson at the helm than sisu's investment managers.

And again, sisu's ultimate control was in the budgets. If Ranson had kept the financials within the agreed budgets he would still be here.

I promise not to write again on this - honest....

However, as we've corresponded before, we seem to have different experience of how PE companies work.

In my experience, whilst Board meetings go on a straight vote and whilst the budget is the key instrument of control - the shareholders' agreement sets out a (usually very comprehensive) list of matters that require "main investor" sign off.

In the context of a football club, I'd be genuinely amazed if this didn't include transfers (both in and out) and all new contract offers to the playing staff.

The first deal I was involved in was an MBO for £176m - but all capex or new hires above £50k had to be signed off by the PE house. Every one always went through on the nod - but it gave them the option to step in at a detailed level if they ever felt the need.

If SISU don't/didn't work that way, then more fool them.

Anyway, on a more positive note - after the unmitigated disaster that was last year, this summer has been much better than I feared.

All the departures were expected (except perhaps Bigi) and I was very unsurprised to see rumours that Wood may be on his way. I could still see Murphy going as well - but we've brought in more players than I'd expected and next year looks like it won't be the relegation battle that I'd braced myself for.

Let's hope we have something to smile about!

 

[Godiva]

Yes, let's put it down to different personal experiences.

Last season was always going to be hard and though we probably had a squad able to acheive at least a mid-table position, the off field turmoil got us relegated.
Let's hope this year will see us gain some stability off field and momentum on the play field.