Fans allowed in? - Updated! (2 Viewers)

[NorthernWisdom]

There will be attempts at rewriting this .
There are five years to do it .
The bloke sanctioning this is a proven liar almost on a daily basis.
O will stick with the medics and scientists.
There is an age element evident .
Both in terms of effects of the pathogen and perception of tackling it or not.
This age discrepancy is going to pose a huge problem should a secondary lockdown be required .
Unofficially it could represent a policy like euthenasia .
What would the policy become or look like if the 20-40 demographic were the hardest hit.
Trouble ahead potentially .

tbf, older voters usually vote Tory don't they? So really you want to kill off the 20-40yos

 

---

[mark82]

Of course, but what's happened is the government has realised that people have died several weeks after recovery (makes sense anyway as most victims are elderly and most people that die naturally are elderly) but have been recorded as covid 19 on the certificate.. This information is false isn't it

Not sure you read properly. The official government figure isn't people with Covid on their death certificate, it's people who have died following a positive test. It is people who died as a result of Covid. There are others on top of the official number that have Covid on their death certificate but are not included in the official figures.

 

[Evo1883]

Very rough figures and obviously it could take months / years to have the data properly analysed but it looks like around 10% of excess deaths are under 65.

Are you suggesting deaths of anyone over the age of 65 are acceptable? Life expectancy in the UK is over 80 years so drawing a line at 65 seems rather arbitrary.

Of course we have years with excess deaths. I would suggest that when that occurs there is probably a reason for it (harsh winter, flu outbreak, ineffective flu vaccine spring to mind as possibilities) and that is looked into with the hope lessons can be learnt and a repeat avoided.

What seems to be increasingly suggested is that we have a known cause of excess death and we just accept the deaths and go about business as usual.

Apologies, I mean they are more expected as opposed to under 65... I do not believe any death is acceptable

 

[Evo1883]

Not sure you read properly. The official government figure isn't people with Covid on their death certificate, it's people who have died following a positive test. It is people who died as a result of Covid. There are others on top of the official number that have Covid on their death certificate but are not included in the official figures.

I think we can both agree, or hopefully so.. That the way we have gone about recording deaths is a bit poor

 

[wingy]

I think we can both agree, or hopefully so.. That the way we have gone about recording deaths is a bit poor

Absolutely .
Hard to understand such vagueness.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

tbf, older voters usually vote Tory don't they? So really you want to kill off the 20-40yos

BUT....

People supposedly become more right wing/Tory as they age.

So 20-40 are the Tory voters in 10-20 years time. In that time the current older generation will die naturally. So you've lost your future voters for a number of years to come.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Not sure you read properly. The official government figure isn't people with Covid on their death certificate, it's people who have died following a positive test. It is people who died as a result of Covid. There are others on top of the official number that have Covid on their death certificate but are not included in the official figures.

When they do the investigation into how the COVID was handled PHE will come out of it very poorly indeed!!!

 

[Warwickhunt]

If you want to look at counting, Just look at India well over 1million confirmed cases and only 11000 deaths says it all.

 

[mr_monkey]

When they do the investigation into how the COVID was handled PHE will come out of it very poorly indeed!!!

This sums it all up for me:

PHE confirmed that it may be recording deaths from coronavirus even if people have died months after a positive test. Other UK nations only include those who died within 28 days of testing positive.

Utter fucking shambles

 

[The Great Eastern]

Got an email today from Norfolk FA saying, under strict safety conditions, grass roots football can resume in September. I take that as being one step away from crowds returning higher up the football pyramid. Whether that would be allowing full stadiums is another matter of course.

 

[chiefdave]

If you want to look at counting, Just look at India well over 1million confirmed cases and only 11000 deaths says it all.

You'll struggle to get any reliable deaths data for India from before covid-19 let alone now. They routinely fail to register over a quarter of deaths at all and only about a fifth of registered deaths have a cause listed and those that aren't listed are often inaccurate.

 

[chiefdave]

Getting closer. Warwickshire members being allowed into Edgbaston for their friendly against Worcester.

Reduced capacity and you have to reserve your seat.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

If I'm honest, although I'm fit and healthy (I think), I'm edging towards seniority, and whilst I will buy a ST I will probably hold off going to games initially, until I've seen what occurs. In the meantime I'll sign up for whatever that allows me to watch the game (streaming, i follow etc). This is partly because I still have contact with old parents, in-law etc (all vulnerable). Having - like others on here - followed City home and away - we have a significant number of 'older' fans who will be a bit twitchy about setting foot inside a stadium from Day 1 of opening. This could impact on CCFC's income, and whilst I hope others will do similar to me, some won't. Really hope there is some lifting of restrictions re: i follow (anybody know?) so that clubs can benefit from those who are 'unable' to attend due to health concerns. Lot of potential income there.

 

[Magwitch]

Going to depend where we are playing, I think using the four blocks carefully at the Ricoh fifty percent capacity could be okay, not so sure about St Andrews 5000 in the Kop stand there isn’t a lot of social distancing possible I suppose there’s the Tilton Road end but it would still be quiet restricted that’s if it was allowed.

 

[mr_monkey]

Going to depend where we are playing, I think using the four blocks carefully at the Ricoh fifty percent capacity could be okay, not so sure about St Andrews 5000 in the Kop stand there isn’t a lot of social distancing possible I suppose there’s the Tilton Road end but it would still be quiet restricted that’s if it was allowed.

Surely if we are at st Andrews they will just open up more of the stadium for us (as they would have to at the Ricoh based on what we had available last time we were there)

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

There's a lot of talk of on here just using the 'deaths' statistic as the predominant factor in how 'serious' it is. We were sent home from work on March 19th to work from home for the foreseeable future, my manager called me on the journey home saying he had been in bed all day and had developed a temperature and dry cough and was sure he had it, and was wanting to warn me. By 22nd March I lost all sense of taste and smell. Was drinking coffee black (something I would never do) and drinking neat vodka (cant stand the stuff) that was left over from our wedding as there was no point in me drinking beers. Back then this wasn't a symptom, nor could I go and be tested. My taste and smell eventually started to return around 2.5 weeks later. From what has transpired since, it seems almost definite that I had COVID in one of the mildest forms, thankfully. However, I have always been a keen runner, have played football and have remained relatively fit. I would say other than a post holiday binge that might take 2 recovery runs to get to, since going to uni 11 years ago I would have been able to run 10km in at the very slowest around 48 minutes. Since losing my taste and smell, I have tried to get back to running, and have *tried* to run 5km (and I hoped far beyond) 4 or 5 times a week. However, this hasn't been possible. My shortness of breathe is ridiculous when running. I have to stop on most 5kms, and it hasn't remotely improved. It could potentially be something completely separate, but it seems a ridiculous coincidence and is also pretty demoralising. I will eventually go and get checked out at the doctors, but even the mildest of cases appears to have left me with fairly severe long-term issues.

 

[clint van damme]

There's a lot of talk of on here just using the 'deaths' statistic as the predominant factor in how 'serious' it is. We were sent home from work on March 19th to work from home for the foreseeable future, my manager called me on the journey home saying he had been in bed all day and had developed a temperature and dry cough and was sure he had it, and was wanting to warn me. By 22nd March I lost all sense of taste and smell. Was drinking coffee black (something I would never do) and drinking neat vodka (cant stand the stuff) that was left over from our wedding as there was no point in me drinking beers. Back then this wasn't a symptom, nor could I go and be tested. My taste and smell eventually started to return around 2.5 weeks later. From what has transpired since, it seems almost definite that I had COVID in one of the mildest forms, thankfully. However, I have always been a keen runner, have played football and have remained relatively fit. I would say other than a post holiday binge that might take 2 recovery runs to get to, since going to uni 11 years ago I would have been able to run 10km in at the very slowest around 48 minutes. Since losing my taste and smell, I have tried to get back to running, and have *tried* to run 5km (and I hoped far beyond) 4 or 5 times a week. However, this hasn't been possible. My shortness of breathe is ridiculous when running. I have to stop on most 5kms, and it hasn't remotely improved. It could potentially be something completely separate, but it seems a ridiculous coincidence and is also pretty demoralising. I will eventually go and get checked out at the doctors, but even the mildest of cases appears to have left me with fairly severe long-term issues.

that's pretty frightening.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

If I'm honest, although I'm fit and healthy (I think), I'm edging towards seniority, and whilst I will buy a ST I will probably hold off going to games initially, until I've seen what occurs. In the meantime I'll sign up for whatever that allows me to watch the game (streaming, i follow etc). This is partly because I still have contact with old parents, in-law etc (all vulnerable). Having - like others on here - followed City home and away - we have a significant number of 'older' fans who will be a bit twitchy about setting foot inside a stadium from Day 1 of opening. This could impact on CCFC's income, and whilst I hope others will do similar to me, some won't. Really hope there is some lifting of restrictions re: i follow (anybody know?) so that clubs can benefit from those who are 'unable' to attend due to health concerns. Lot of potential income there.

I’m 63 but I would hope to go back to games as soon as we can. Whether the Ricoh or St Andrews, both stadiums are large enough that with a restricted attendance and perhaps no away fans you should be able to distance from other spectators. I would think that refreshments won’t be on sale (doesn’t bother me). The pinch points would be entrance and exit and toilets. I have been thinking that I would arrive early, hang around at the end to let ‘the bulge’ disappear and hopefully have enough bladder control to avoid the toilets. (the latter could be a problem!).

 

[skybluesam66]

I also believe i have had the virus early on, and I believe I contracted it at the Portsmouth game on 11th Feb
be interested to know if any other fans believe they had it at around that time
I would still go to games, can see with face masks and distancing, would be reasonably safe

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

There's a lot of talk of on here just using the 'deaths' statistic as the predominant factor in how 'serious' it is. We were sent home from work on March 19th to work from home for the foreseeable future, my manager called me on the journey home saying he had been in bed all day and had developed a temperature and dry cough and was sure he had it, and was wanting to warn me. By 22nd March I lost all sense of taste and smell. Was drinking coffee black (something I would never do) and drinking neat vodka (cant stand the stuff) that was left over from our wedding as there was no point in me drinking beers. Back then this wasn't a symptom, nor could I go and be tested. My taste and smell eventually started to return around 2.5 weeks later. From what has transpired since, it seems almost definite that I had COVID in one of the mildest forms, thankfully. However, I have always been a keen runner, have played football and have remained relatively fit. I would say other than a post holiday binge that might take 2 recovery runs to get to, since going to uni 11 years ago I would have been able to run 10km in at the very slowest around 48 minutes. Since losing my taste and smell, I have tried to get back to running, and have *tried* to run 5km (and I hoped far beyond) 4 or 5 times a week. However, this hasn't been possible. My shortness of breathe is ridiculous when running. I have to stop on most 5kms, and it hasn't remotely improved. It could potentially be something completely separate, but it seems a ridiculous coincidence and is also pretty demoralising. I will eventually go and get checked out at the doctors, but even the mildest of cases appears to have left me with fairly severe long-term issues.

That's quite scary. I'm guessing you are under 40? (re: University attendance) and if it can impact your lungs like that post virus, you can understand why some people are wary. A (small) perverse part of me would almost like to catch it (assuming I wasn't too adversely affected) to get it out of the way, as it feels a bit like the sword of Damacles waiting to fall. I have stepped up my fitness at home, tried to lose a bit of weight and get myself in a reasonable condition should it hit. My son returns to school in September, and my wife works in a school (again returns in September) so feel we are bound to encounter this at some point. Played football until I was 49, and have always been fairly fit, but at 61 I am mindful of what this virus can do.

 

[GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee]

That's quite scary. I'm guessing you are under 40? (re: University attendance) and if it can impact your lungs like that post virus, you can understand why some people are wary. A (small) perverse part of me would almost like to catch it (assuming I wasn't too adversely affected) to get it out of the way, as it feels a bit like the sword of Damacles waiting to fall. I have stepped up my fitness at home, tried to lose a bit of weight and get myself in a reasonable condition should it hit. My son returns to school in September, and my wife works in a school (again returns in September) so feel we are bound to encounter this at some point. Played football until I was 49, and have always been fairly fit, but at 61 I am mindful of what this virus can do.

Yeah I am 30. Hard to know if its going to be a short-term thing and eventually I will just recover or if this is it for the long-term. Pretty worrying.

 

[Cov kid 55]

If I'm honest, although I'm fit and healthy (I think), I'm edging towards seniority, and whilst I will buy a ST I will probably hold off going to games initially, until I've seen what occurs. In the meantime I'll sign up for whatever that allows me to watch the game (streaming, i follow etc). This is partly because I still have contact with old parents, in-law etc (all vulnerable). Having - like others on here - followed City home and away - we have a significant number of 'older' fans who will be a bit twitchy about setting foot inside a stadium from Day 1 of opening. This could impact on CCFC's income, and whilst I hope others will do similar to me, some won't. Really hope there is some lifting of restrictions re: i follow (anybody know?) so that clubs can benefit from those who are 'unable' to attend due to health concerns. Lot of potential income there.

As a 65 year old, feeling fit and healthy, I’m thinking similarly to you H. I don’t want to bring Covid home to my wife, or to some elderly relatives, so will probably avoid going to games initially. I live near Newcastle and haven’t had a season ticket before, attended 10 games last season, the last being Ipswich away. I will buy a season ticket this year, to support the club financially, and so that when I do feel safe going to matches again, I’ve got a better chance of going to some grounds I’ve never been to before (Fulham, Charlton, Bristol City) and to some grounds that I haven’t been to for many years (Forest, Wednesday, Blackburn). A lot of the above, of course, dependent on this evening’s key matches, and the resultant play-offs.

 

[better days]

There's a lot of talk of on here just using the 'deaths' statistic as the predominant factor in how 'serious' it is. We were sent home from work on March 19th to work from home for the foreseeable future, my manager called me on the journey home saying he had been in bed all day and had developed a temperature and dry cough and was sure he had it, and was wanting to warn me. By 22nd March I lost all sense of taste and smell. Was drinking coffee black (something I would never do) and drinking neat vodka (cant stand the stuff) that was left over from our wedding as there was no point in me drinking beers. Back then this wasn't a symptom, nor could I go and be tested. My taste and smell eventually started to return around 2.5 weeks later. From what has transpired since, it seems almost definite that I had COVID in one of the mildest forms, thankfully. However, I have always been a keen runner, have played football and have remained relatively fit. I would say other than a post holiday binge that might take 2 recovery runs to get to, since going to uni 11 years ago I would have been able to run 10km in at the very slowest around 48 minutes. Since losing my taste and smell, I have tried to get back to running, and have *tried* to run 5km (and I hoped far beyond) 4 or 5 times a week. However, this hasn't been possible. My shortness of breathe is ridiculous when running. I have to stop on most 5kms, and it hasn't remotely improved. It could potentially be something completely separate, but it seems a ridiculous coincidence and is also pretty demoralising. I will eventually go and get checked out at the doctors, but even the mildest of cases appears to have left me with fairly severe long-term issues.

You may be eligible for an antibody test soon
It's not available yet but hopefully will be before too long
There are also some trials going on for people who think the've had it which you could look for
See link

Testing for COVID-19

Find out who can get free NHS tests, how to get tested, and what your test result means.

www.nhs.uk

 

[Saddlebrains]

Willing to wager a pound that Fans will be allowed in in some form or another for season start on 12th September

 

[fernandopartridge]

Willing to wager a pound that Fans will be allowed in in some form or another for season start on 12th September

Yeah, i reckon you're right.

 

[better days]

Talk today that limits recommended by the Sports Grounds Safety Authority are for a maximum of 33% capacity depending on circumstances but could be as low as 17%
Factors include concourse space, exit points and stairways

 

[Liquid Gold]

BUT....

People supposedly become more right wing/Tory as they age.

So 20-40 are the Tory voters in 10-20 years time. In that time the current older generation will die naturally. So you've lost your future voters for a number of years to come.

Yes but that age used to be mid 30s and is now mid 40s heading to 50. It's all around the accumulation of capital, people used to become homeowners and have more assets at a younger age so turned more conservative as a way of self preservation/believing the system works. Now younger people are finding it increasingly difficult to buy homes and save any money they are willing to risk change/think the system is broken.

I'll stop there as I don't want to dump 15,000 words on you like I did to some poor bastard a few years ago.

 

[robbiekeane]

You may be eligible for an antibody test soon
It's not available yet but hopefully will be before too long
There are also some trials going on for people who think the've had it which you could look for
See link

Testing for COVID-19

Find out who can get free NHS tests, how to get tested, and what your test result means.

www.nhs.uk

The thing is the antibody tests are bullshit...or at least the ones readily available in the US.

At the end of March a girl I was seeing and quarantining with started to get sick and had the symptoms especially those around losing sense of taste and smell. Crazy fever. I was literally sleeping in the same bed as her and I started to get this weird fever and was waking up with sweats every 45 minutes or so. I would sleep for like 10-12 hours. Eyes hurt and had these weird aches. Again we were staying in the same tiny apartment and looking after each other.

Both took the antibody test 2/3 weeks later. She had antibodies and I didn’t.

So either I managed to not catch a disease so contagious that the world has shut down and people haven’t been able to leave the house and when they have they have to stay 6 feet away from each other and wear masks like some dystopian novel, whilst staying on the same bed as someone who had it...

...or she had a false positive and neither of us had it and we both had a coincidental flu or it was all mental

...or I had a false negative.

 

[ceetee]

I doubt that the antics at Liverpool will convince the government that football supporters can be trusted to respect any social distancing or other measures that might be introduced.

 

[cc84cov]

17% 33%

How on Earth are they gonna manage that with fans wanting tickets etc

 

[shmmeee]

Yes but that age used to be mid 30s and is now mid 40s heading to 50. It's all around the accumulation of capital, people used to become homeowners and have more assets at a younger age so turned more conservative as a way of self preservation/believing the system works. Now younger people are finding it increasingly difficult to buy homes and save any money they are willing to risk change/think the system is broken.

I'll stop there as I don't want to dump 15,000 words on you like I did to some poor bastard a few years ago.

Generaltheory I’ve seen is age is a proxy for education. So that’s why the changeover age is rising as increases in uni attendance flow up the demographics.

 

[Kieranp96]

BUT....

People supposedly become more right wing/Tory as they age.

So 20-40 are the Tory voters in 10-20 years time. In that time the current older generation will die naturally. So you've lost your future voters for a number of years to come.

How did you all turn it into a debate on politics?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Generaltheory I’ve seen is age is a proxy for education. So that’s why the changeover age is rising as increases in uni attendance flow up the demographics.

Could be the case but I didn't write 15,000 words on that so I'll just say - OK

 

[Saddlebrains]

17% 33%

How on Earth are they gonna manage that with fans wanting tickets etc

Personally dont see how 50% with face masks and no away fans couldnt work.

Takes into account the 1 metre plus rule.

Can still create an atmosphere with 16.5k singing through masks

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

The thing is the antibody tests are bullshit...or at least the ones readily available in the US.

At the end of March a girl I was seeing and quarantining with started to get sick and had the symptoms especially those around losing sense of taste and smell. Crazy fever. I was literally sleeping in the same bed as her and I started to get this weird fever and was waking up with sweats every 45 minutes or so. I would sleep for like 10-12 hours. Eyes hurt and had these weird aches. Again we were staying in the same tiny apartment and looking after each other.

Both took the antibody test 2/3 weeks later. She had antibodies and I didn’t.

So either I managed to not catch a disease so contagious that the world has shut down and people haven’t been able to leave the house and when they have they have to stay 6 feet away from each other and wear masks like some dystopian novel, whilst staying on the same bed as someone who had it...

...or she had a false positive and neither of us had it and we both had a coincidental flu or it was all mental

...or I had a false negative.

One of the most dangerous misconceptions is people assuming that because they’ve had a bout of Covid that they’ve become amune to reinfection. Current research has shown that only a limited time for antibodies remaining in the body.
What we need to be sure of is any adaptions made by the T cells.
Finally, the stats on deaths is variable on both sides of the argument in that some stroke deaths are a bi product of clotting at the base of the spine. This is a side effect of Covid and sometimes not attributed.
Secondly to limit deaths to past 28 days is another variable considering that some patients are tubed for far longer.
Thirdly, as stated there are a lot of people suffering long term impacts of Covid including damaged lungs, so we should consider the quality of life not just the quantity