Another day, another murder (2 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

Bullshit, a lot of the time it is the parents and how the kids are brought up.

There is plenty of options and opportunities for kids if they want to take them, the issue is that people are far more self-entitled nowadays and expect everything given to them on a plate without having to get off their arse.

They want the lifestyle of being a drug dealer or in that sort of environment. When you hear from the parents afterwards they will near enough always give it the "They were an angel" type speech when a lot of the time the violence was to do with drugs, gangs or revenge attacks from one of the first two.

Have a look at the guy from the specials grandson who was stabbed in town, he had previous for holding somebody up with a gun and robbing them but the family didn't think to interject then and get him out of the lifestyle.

I have a daughter, she won't be hanging around with drug dealers and roadmen. I'd do my upmost to stop that from happening even if it killed me, I wouldn't just sit on my arse expecting everybody else to fix it for me and blaming the lack of youth clubs or some shit like that.

Utter nonsense, the work in the communities that identifies the kids at risk of falling into that lifestyle have been cut and thus less kids get the support they need to keep them away from gangs.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

formerly of Ellacombe, there was always a veneer of violence around the place.

I grew up in Henley Green and it was never anything on this level. It wasn't full of displaced families from London then though. The council once again has a lot to answer...

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Bullshit, a lot of the time it is the parents and how the kids are brought up.

There is plenty of options and opportunities for kids if they want to take them, the issue is that people are far more self-entitled nowadays and expect everything given to them on a plate without having to get off their arse.

They want the lifestyle of being a drug dealer or in that sort of environment. When you hear from the parents afterwards they will near enough always give it the "They were an angel" type speech when a lot of the time the violence was to do with drugs, gangs or revenge attacks from one of the first two.

Have a look at the guy from the specials grandson who was stabbed in town, he had previous for holding somebody up with a gun and robbing them but the family didn't think to interject then and get him out of the lifestyle.

I have a daughter, she won't be hanging around with drug dealers and roadmen. I'd do my upmost to stop that from happening even if it killed me, I wouldn't just sit on my arse expecting everybody else to fix it for me and blaming the lack of youth clubs or some shit like that.

Wow, what a misguided post that is..

 

[David O'Day]

I grew up in Henley Green and it was never anything on this level. It wasn't full of displaced families from London then though. The council once again has a lot to answer...

aye, it was never this stabby but you could quite easily get your head kicked in

 

[Nick]

Utter nonsense, the work in the communities that identifies the kids at risk of falling into that lifestyle have been cut and thus less kids get the support they need to keep them away from gangs.

As I said, parents expecting somebody else to do it for them.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

As I said, parents expecting somebody else to do it for them.

You don't really understand life for some people, do you?

 

[Nick]

You don't really understand life for some people, do you?

I understand life for a wide range of people.

I just don't buy the expecting somebody else to do things for them mentality.

 

[David O'Day]

As I said, parents expecting somebody else to do it for them.

In a world where parents or parent singular may have to be working 2 jobs to get by there isn't always the ability for them to be there all the time. That's why youth and community groups are so important.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I understand life for a wide range of people.

I just don't buy the expecting somebody else to do things for them mentality.

I don't think you do.

To say that the parents are totally culpable when there are a whole range of other things going on is massively blinkered. Patronising & pig ignorant too for parents who spend every hour god sends trying to make ends meet.

 

[Nick]

In a world where parents or parent singular may have to be working 2 jobs to get by there isn't always the ability for them to be there all the time. That's why youth and community groups are so important.

It still isn't an excuse though, is it?

I am not saying it is solely the parents fault, of course it isn't. People running the county lines and paying these kids to do their dirty work should also be punished severely. Police should also be given a lot more power with stop and search and there should be much harsher punishment for people carrying knives.

It's not just the parents but they need to start taking responsibility rather than this nonsense that their kid is an angel type shit that always seems to happen. I'd have been begging the police to take me rather than if my parents found out I was carrying a knife about, they certainly wouldn't be gobbing off at the police defending me like you get nowadays.

 

[David O'Day]

It still isn't an excuse though, is it?

I am not saying it is solely the parents fault, of course it isn't. People running the county lines and paying these kids to do their dirty work should also be punished severely. Police should also be given a lot more power with stop and search and there should be much harsher punishment for people carrying knives.

It's not just the parents but they need to start taking responsibility rather than this nonsense that their kid is an angel type shit that always seems to happen. I'd have been begging the police to take me rather than if my parents found out I was carrying a knife about, they certainly wouldn't be gobbing off at the police defending me like you get nowadays.

You've just heard the words county lines haven't you. Coventry isn't really a county lines operation as it's about 9th biggest city in England and has had long standing criminal gangs already.

It's not an excuse, in the past there were things like community support workers and youth centres to help kids but these aren't there any more. There is no evidence stop and search brings down knife crime. The Met tried this and it still went up.

You really need to get out more

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It still isn't an excuse though, is it?

I am not saying it is solely the parents fault, of course it isn't. People running the county lines and paying these kids to do their dirty work should also be punished severely. Police should also be given a lot more power with stop and search and there should be much harsher punishment for people carrying knives.

It's not just the parents but they need to start taking responsibility rather than this nonsense that their kid is an angel type shit that always seems to happen. I'd have been begging the police to take me rather than if my parents found out I was carrying a knife about, they certainly wouldn't be gobbing off at the police defending me like you get nowadays.

Well that is a slightly different point and I would agree with you. But its also true that not every parent knows what their child is up to at all times- you think you do but you don't.

Bottom line is, while there is so much money to be made in crime, there will be a constant flow of young kids willing to turn to it. The people further up don't give a shit, another one will be along to replace them if someone is killed. It is massively exacerbated by the lack of opportunities they see, made worse by the fact that so many initiatives to take them off the streets have been scrapped, and to top it all off the police have been cut so much they can't do what they need to.

This is more of a society problem, as opposed to a parenting issue.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You've just heard the words county lines haven't you. Coventry isn't really a county lines operation as it's about 9th biggest city in England and has had long standing criminal gangs already.

It's not an excuse, in the past there were things like community support workers and youth centres to help kids but these aren't there any more. There is no evidence stop and search brings down knife crime. The Met tried this and it still went up.

You really need to get out more

That is true- stop and search is useless. Its just the easiest fall back to come out with when police come under pressure

 

[Nick]

You've just heard the words county lines haven't you. Coventry isn't really a county lines operation as it's about 9th biggest city in England and has had long standing criminal gangs already.

It's not an excuse, in the past there were things like community support workers and youth centres to help kids but these aren't there any more. There is no evidence stop and search brings down knife crime. The Met tried this and it still went up.

You really need to get out more

Yes but there will be kids going out taking the drugs, no idea if it's related in this instance but I meant with drugs in general.

Youth Centres aren't going to stop shit like this from happening. It isn't bored kids just getting up to no good and knocking on doors and running, they are out willing to stab or shoot each other or 20 of them jump onto one person. There are no fucks given.

Why don't they all go down to their local boxing gym? There are loads about who will take kids in and train them and have funding / grants to do that as well.

There are plenty of options but as I said, people are far too self-entitled and think everything should be on a plate for them. Add that in with their lack of morals and respect and you get these little cunts.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yes but there will be kids going out taking the drugs, no idea if it's related in this instance but I meant with drugs in general.

Youth Centres aren't going to stop shit like this from happening. It isn't bored kids just getting up to no good and knocking on doors and running, they are out willing to stab or shoot each other or 20 of them jump onto one person. There are no fucks given.

Why don't they all go down to their local boxing gym? There are loads about who will take kids in and train them and have funding / grants to do that as well.

There are plenty of options but as I said, people are far too self-entitled and think everything should be on a plate for them. Add that in with their lack of morals and respect and you get these little cunts.

A boxing gym for a few hours per week while having no other opportunities, or 'earning' £000s per week.

These people are a product of society and a product of their reality. The cuts to facilities, having no real opportunities & policing being stripped to the bone will have had much more impact than "bad parenting", which is a ridiculous place to put the blame, there will be some wrong'uns who didn't give a shit, but to blanket them all with the blame is pretty offensive to a lot of them.

 

[Nick]

A boxing gym for a few hours per week while having no other opportunities, or 'earning' £000s per week.

These people are a product of society and a product of their reality. The cuts to facilities, having no real opportunities & policing will have had much more impact than "bad parenting", which is ridiculous.

So what makes you think they are going to go to a youth club or use community workers if they are earning 1000's a week? If I was 15 earnings 1000's a week my parents would have noticed something was dodgy.

As I said, there should be zero tolerance on those and those further up the chain. So many of the little cunts are feral with no respect for anything or anybody. To think parenting has nothing to do with that is just passing the blame.

 

[hill83]

Can't we just say it's a bit of all of the above?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So what makes you think they are going to go to a youth club or use community workers if they are earning 1000's a week?

As I said, there should be zero tolerance on those and those further up the chain. So many of the little cunts are feral with no respect for anything or anybody. To think parenting has nothing to do with that is just passing the blame.

I said its a combination of things. But parenting is not the most important.

It is no coincidence that the reduction in police resources meant an increase in dealing, increases in dealing means more kids getting sucked in & becoming intoxicated by that 'way of life', while at the same time opportunities & things to do were also being cut. That there is the perfect storm to create a society where the bigger criminals make hay & end up sucking in more kids who end up killing each other on a regular basis. And when all this happens at once, I don't care what kind of parent you are, you are fighting a losing battle to take them away from that world.

You are properly failing to understand the reality of life for a whole load of kids, not just in Wood End but in every major city right now. It is an epidemic, not caused by what the parents are up to- its a documented fact there is a correlation between policing & youth initiatives and gang crimes, are you saying that the increase in this stuff has exactly coincided with a decrease in parenting levels?

 

[David O'Day]

So what makes you think they are going to go to a youth club or use community workers if they are earning 1000's a week? If I was 15 earnings 1000's a week my parents would have noticed something was dodgy.

As I said, there should be zero tolerance on those and those further up the chain. So many of the little cunts are feral with no respect for anything or anybody. To think parenting has nothing to do with that is just passing the blame.

Mate your average 15 year old "fofer" isn't earning 1000's a week.

Once agin you need to brush on the brief before you chat bubbles about it

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Mate your average 15 year old "fofer" isn't earning 1000's a week.

Once agin you need to brush on the brief before you chat bubbles about it

you mean the "fofers" that you said didn't exist a minute ago? Righto

 

[Nick]

I said its a combination of things. But parenting is not the most important.

It is no coincidence that the reduction in police resources meant an increase in dealing, increases in dealing means more kids getting sucked in & becoming intoxicated by that 'way of life', while at the same time opportunities & things to do were also being cut. That there is the perfect storm to create a society where the bigger criminals make hay & end up sucking in more kids who end up killing each other on a regular basis. And when all this happens at once, I don't care what kind of parent you are, you are fighting a losing battle to take them away from that world.

You are properly failing to understand the reality of life for a whole load of kids, not just in Wood End but in every major city right now. It is an epidemic, not caused by what the parents are up to- its a documented fact there is a correlation between policing & youth initiatives and gang crimes, are you saying that the increase in this stuff has exactly coincided with a decrease in parenting levels?

Of course policing will have a massive impact but a lot of the kids aren't even bothered about going to prison any more because they can make just as much money when they are inside (if not more) than they do outside.

As I said, if my daughter got involved with that sort of thing I'd move away if I had to so she wasn't in that environment any more. Yes there's the chance of it happening again wherever we moved to but if she wasn't around the same gangs etc it would be less likely.

I think it might have been the 14 year old lad in London who was on a moped and drug dealing, I think his mum said they had moved to London from Derby for a "fresh start". This is where a bit of common sense should be applied, don't move somewhere where that issue is rife.

Of course it doesn't solve the epidemic but in their case it would have avoided it.

The people at the top of the chains using the kids should of course be punished and made priority, people glamourising the lifestyle should be as well. You only have to see some of the gangs "rapping" on youtube at each other to see the type of pricks they are.

My point is more the parents who take no responsibility and expect everybody else to parent their kids. Whether its schools, police, social workers etc.

How much of it in Coventry is down to people moving from London and down south up to here and bringing their beef with them?

 

[Nick]

Mate your average 15 year old "fofer" isn't earning 1000's a week.

Once agin you need to brush on the brief before you chat bubbles about it

I was just quoting what was said to me

 

[David O'Day]

I was just quoting what was said to me

Anecdotal evidence, the best kind

 

[shmmeee]

As I said, parents expecting somebody else to do it for them.

A lot of parents have never seen decent parenting. You’d be amazed. Fact is we can’t stop them reproducing and it’s not the kids fault they were born to shit parents so what do you do?

 

[Houchens Head]

All this shit society started when teachers were told they couldn't use a cane anymore. Police can't lay a finger on the "little darlings" for fear of being accused of god knows what. Parents aren't allowed to slap their kids anymore, without the vile little bastards screaming "abuse"! Bring it all back! Let's have some backbone in our society!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

All this shit society started when teachers were told they couldn't use a cane anymore. Police can't lay a finger on the "little darlings" for fear of being accused of god knows what. Parents aren't allowed to slap their kids anymore, without the vile little bastards screaming "abuse"! Bring it all back! Let's have some backbone in our society!

I’d bring back the cat o’ninetails personally

 

[Houchens Head]

I’d bring back the cat o’ninetails personally

That as well!

 

[Gazolba]

It's been bad around there for a long time.
Even when I was a young boy and we drove past the Live and Let Live pub my Dad would say he never went there for a drink any more becvause of the trouble he saw in there.
That was more than 50 years ago.

 

[Houchens Head]

It's been bad around there for a long time.
Even when I was a young boy and we drove past the Live and Let Live pub my Dad would say he never went there for a drink any more becvause of the trouble he saw in there.
That was more than 50 years ago.

50 years ago eh? Around the time when I worked behind the bar there!

 

[wingy]

I grew up in Henley Green and it was never anything on this level. It wasn't full of displaced families from London then though. The council once again has a lot to answer...

You mustn't forget inducements from central government and the gentrification of the Capital here FP .
Not saying they're white Knights .
Bit of Social cleansing about it
And reducing the burden financially on benefits to all of those buy to let private shisters.

 

[wingy]

You mustn't forget inducements from central government and the gentrification of the Capital here FP .
Not saying they're white Knights .
Bit of Social cleansing about it
And reducing the burden financially on benefits to all of those buy to let private shisters.

Hell some of them are elected members.

 

[fernandopartridge]

You mustn't forget inducements from central government and the gentrification of the Capital here FP .
Not saying they're white Knights .
Bit of Social cleansing about it
And reducing the burden financially on benefits to all of those buy to let private shisters.

That's a good point. My general theory is that basically every social and economic problem is linked back to the rentier society we live in.

 

[RedSalmon]

Was he from Coventry?

 

[ccfctommy]

All this shit society started when teachers were told they couldn't use a cane anymore. Police can't lay a finger on the "little darlings" for fear of being accused of god knows what. Parents aren't allowed to slap their kids anymore, without the vile little bastards screaming "abuse"! Bring it all back! Let's have some backbone in our society!

Lol, bring back the cane. Haha.

 

[ccfctommy]

I think people forget the kid who died was only 15.

If he was involved, he was merely a pawn.