General Election 2019 thread (14 Viewers)

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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
It's a reasonably elegant way of complying with the radicals, whilst really maintaining the status quo.
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That’s politics baby.

See also commitment to renew Trident. Clearly against Corbyns personal beliefs, but the unions don’t want to lose the jobs.

This is why I’d worry about cutting the working class loose and just having the activist base involved in policy. You get a good balance right now.

Nothing in that manifesto is particularly radical.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Then the independent report will come back and not recommend integration won’t it?

Very bizarre take to withhold your vote because someone wants a report writing.
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Because from where I'm standing all the major voices in the party are in favour but they haven't had time to flesh out the details of how it would be implemented. Looks to me like an effort to get it through by the back door.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Fully. Costed. Manifesto.

It’s not the poor people that have the money Dom. Head out of the rich peoples arses.

As of next month I’m a higher rate tax payer. I approve of Labours tax plans.

BTW the most regressive tax is VAT and the Tories hiked that. Most of their tax cuts are aimed at the rich. They’ve paid for them through borrowing. Your nightmare has already happened.
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The plans aren’t fully costed though. It’s suggesting the nationalisation plans are fiscally neutral and so are excluded and from what I’ve read so is the transformational fund (450bn - 250bn over ten years and 150bn over five).

I do like some of the proposed policies though such as increased jobseekers for carers and free social care (far better than broadband for all which I think weakens their credibility). I also haven’t got an issue with corp tax being a little higher (within reason) for larger businesses and it’s good that they are retaining lower rate for some businesses - id have had this £1m t/o rather than £300k though or even better had it based on profit level which is far more relevant

The tax the billionaires and tax google etc are great soundbites that pretty much the whole country agrees with, however, are also unrealistic. Im not even sure there is a specific tax billionaire policy in the manifesto is there ??? If there was, Billionaires would chose not to be UK domicile and they will only end up properly taxing large tech a lot more with international co-operation on tax. I also see little to incentivise investment and help business ?

Finally, taxing people on £80k is not taxing the rich. I’d imagine a single earner family in the south east wont consider themselves ‘rich’. If anyone saw what happened to France when they tried to be more aggressive with taxing business and the rich they will know how much they struggled to repair the damage even years later. It’s a very fine balance and if you get it wrong the ordinary man/woman on the street will end up plugging the gap !

Ps I also thought they planned to scrap private schools ? Have I missed something or is that not happening now ? (Hopefully not, the additional financial burden of these pupils returning to state schools would be massive).
 
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C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Also I see both major parties embarrassing themselves again. Tories childishly linking labour manifesto and hundreds (or more) students being illegally registered to vote in labour marginals

I mean WTF ?!!
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Given his apparent success in the last leadership debate it seems strange that Boris has pulled out of the C4 one.

#runningscared #darenotopenmymouthinpublicbecauseillputmyfootinit.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Given his apparent success in the last leadership debate it seems strange that Boris has pulled out of the C4 one.

#runningscared #darenotopenmymouthinpublicbecauseillputmyfootinit.
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I don’t think was never planning on being involved in that Tony. If it’s anything like the shouty mess of previous party leader debates probably a good call.

Very little to gain when you are likely to be shot at from all sides
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I don’t think was never planning on being involved in that Tony. If it’s anything like the shouty mess of previous party leader debates probably a good call.

Very little to gain when you are likely to be shot at from all sides
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The C4 Tory Leadership debate that Boris also ducked out off, was by far the best of them. Controlled and to the point. Krishnan Guru-Murphy was excellent. Not sure if he was lined up to do this but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the reason he’s ducked out again.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Because from where I'm standing all the major voices in the party are in favour but they haven't had time to flesh out the details of how it would be implemented. Looks to me like an effort to get it through by the back door.
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You think someone involved in left wing politics their entire life hasn’t had time to think through a fairly standard left wing position?
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
The C4 Tory Leadership debate that Boris also ducked out off, was by far the best of them. Controlled and to the point. Krishnan Guru-Murphy was excellent. Not sure if he was lined up to do this but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the reason he’s ducked out again.
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that was decent to be fair. The bbc one was a disgrace !
 
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
The plans aren’t fully costed though. It’s suggesting the nationalisation plans are fiscally neutral and so are excluded and from what I’ve read so is the transformational fund (450bn - 250bn over ten years and 150bn over five).

I do like some of the proposed policies though such as increased jobseekers for carers and free social care (far better than broadband for all which I think weakens their credibility). I also haven’t got an issue with corp tax being a little higher (within reason) for larger businesses and it’s good that they are retaining lower rate for some businesses - id have had this £1m rather than £300k though.

The tax the billionaires and tax google etc are great soundbites that pretty much the whole country agrees with, however, are also unrealistic. Billionaires will chose not to be UK domicile and they will only end up properly taxing large tech a lot more with international co-operation on tax. I also see little to incentivise investment and help business ?

Finally, taxing people on £80k is not taxing the rich. I’d imagine a single earner family in the south east wont consider themselves ‘rich’. If anyone saw what happened to France when they tried to be more aggressive with taxing business and the rich they will know how much they struggled to repair the damage even years later. It’s a very fine balance and if you get it wrong the ordinary man/woman on the street will end up plugging the gap !

Ps I also thought they planned to scrap private schools ? Have I missed something or is that not happening now ? (Hopefully not, the additional financial burden of these pupils returning to state schools would be massive).
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I agree that some high net worth individuals will leave although I think that as with any policy, this one is more to do with 'we are going in the right direction'. So rather than significant increases in taxation, they'll probably begin with seriously clamping down on, for instance, tax evasion.

I think they've realised that the scrapping of private schools is too controversial so they will stick to scrapping their charitable status which in my opinion is a good first step, as this status makes a mockery of true charity.

As more funding is channelled to state education, particularly sixth form colleges (which have faced imo an indefensible level of cuts), the opportunity for all to advance themselves will improve. I am a bit sceptical about the quality of adult education that would be provided under their 6 year plan but the principle is good. It is only right for education to be the treadmill that Corbyn speaks off, and not the beginning of life experience which disproportionately advantages those who are born into families with the means to pay for a good education/get into the catchment area of a good school.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I don’t think was never planning on being involved in that Tony. If it’s anything like the shouty mess of previous party leader debates probably a good call.

Very little to gain when you are likely to be shot at from all sides
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A lot of commentators are saying the seven way debates are good for the PM cos they get to stand there looking PM’y and above the chaos of the smaller parties. Not sure myself.

Are we sure that’s what he pulled out of? Tweet reads like it was a head to head with Corbyn.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
A lot of commentators are saying the seven way debates are good for the PM cos they get to stand there looking PM’y and above the chaos of the smaller parties. Not sure myself.

Are we sure that’s what he pulled out of? Tweet reads like it was a head to head with Corbyn.
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It’s the head to head he’s pulling out of. I don’t think that the 7 way is leaders.
 
W

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
All the BBC politics shows have gone to shit. Not a decent moderator anywhere in the BBC it seems.
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The most objective correspondent at the moment is probably Emily Maitlis. No particular bias (or if she does have one, then she does a very good job of disguising it), and very interrogating of anyone she interviews. None of the clickbaitism typical of Julie Etchingham
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Walsgrave said:
The most objective correspondent at the moment is probably Emily Maitlis. No particular bias (or if she does have one, then she does a very good job of disguising it), and very interrogating of anyone she interviews. None of the clickbaitism typical of Julie Etchingham
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There’s some decent interviewers still Andrew Neil has his moments when he can be arsed. It’s more the Dimbleby type they’re missing for panels and debates. I can’t stomach QT or AQ any more.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
Also I see both major parties embarrassing themselves again. Tories childishly linking labour manifesto and hundreds (or more) students being illegally registered to vote in labour marginals

I mean WTF ?!!
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So a clear action by the Tories and an unsubstantiated claim are equal?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
So a clear action by the Tories and an unsubstantiated claim are equal?
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It’s local authorities and unis doing what they’ve always done before the law change in 2014. Nothing to do with Labour.

Yet more Tory fake news. And Steve and his ilk will file it under “they all lie”.

Fuck this particular brand of the Tory party. Fuck them right in the ear. Not even a political point. Democracy can’t function with these trolls in it. Straight out of the Putin/Trump playbook.
 
Philosorapter

Philosorapter

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
That’s politics baby.

See also commitment to renew Trident. Clearly against Corbyns personal beliefs, but the unions don’t want to lose the jobs.

This is why I’d worry about cutting the working class loose and just having the activist base involved in policy. You get a good balance

Nothing in that manifesto is particularly radical.
Click to expand...

I'm all for it, if Scotland gets Independence and goes nuke free, let's widen the Coventry canal basin et al and park the nukes and submarines in there.

I am sure the NIMBY's would literally be up to their necks in arms.

Imagine the job opportunities for Coventry.
 
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stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
There’s some decent interviewers still Andrew Neil has his moments when he can be arsed. It’s more the Dimbleby type they’re missing for panels and debates. I can’t stomach QT or AQ any more.
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Fiona Bruce is shockingly bad.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
It’s local authorities and unis doing what they’ve always done before the law change in 2014. Nothing to do with Labour.

Yet more Tory fake news. And Steve and his ilk will file it under “they all lie”.

Fuck this particular brand of the Tory party. Fuck them right in the ear. Not even a political point. Democracy can’t function with these trolls in it. Straight out of the Putin/Trump playbook.
Click to expand...

I think the Tory internet stuff is just an embarrassment and reflects badly on them. The fact that the truth comes out within hours just makes them look idiotic as well.

But is the illegal student registration fake news ? The electoral commission previously found that Plymouth CC had broken rules in the council elections in May (labour councillor resigned). It now happens again

Shouting ‘fake news’ because it doesn’t suit your side of the argument is what trump does !
 
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