Tommy atkins,torch etc.. (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter valiant15
- Start date
LeamingtonBootBoy
New Member
No mate it wasn't...and on that front, Valiant is wrong.
However, Torchy for one does come across as being more sympathetic/understanding of the hierarchy at this club.
He seems like a decent bloke, but he is quick to verbally attack anyone who criticises Thorn and the owners....even after this shocking season.
Not my issue mate, just trying to balance the discussion with some reality....:thinking about:
However, Torchy for one does come across as being more sympathetic/understanding of the hierarchy at this club.
He seems like a decent bloke, but he is quick to verbally attack anyone who criticises Thorn and the owners....even after this shocking season.
Not my issue mate, just trying to balance the discussion with some reality....:thinking about:
LeamingtonBootBoy
New Member
He seems ok, constructs a good argument, but gets verbally aggressive when anyone disagrees with him...even when he was peddling SISU's bullshit a few months back....or defending AT's 21% win record (which I also admit has some valid mitigating circumstances even though it is the worst in our post-war history).
I don t think you ll find too many disagreeing with that
cloughie
Well-Known Member
tommy atkins is the apologist or should i say the spokes person for sisu, a man who will back them to the confreance league.
He will argue against facts to "win" an argument:jerkit:
Delboycov
Active Member
As far as I'm aware TA was one of the few that warned against SISU on GMK when they took over and has always said SISU could not give 2 shits about us...correct me if I'm wrong TA. If you're looking for someone who has been unstinting in his support for SISU and has never questioned anything they've ever done to this club...step forward Godiva.
You are probably right - I haven't questioned sisu's actions very often. But I have tried to explain their actions to the best of my ability.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
pot kettle black?
TheParsonsHose
Member
Are you buying a ST?
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
But Marillion ARE awful!! (I'll go and get the whip!)
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
The Three Wise Monkeys line was mine(though told i couldn't use it anymore as it was "racist" because HTO was apparently black?)
Raybots another one i was quite proud of, still a few of them about though.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Sterling Archer
Well-Known Member
Yes, I thought that was a great idea as at one point it seemed like the only way to witness just one mind numbingly excruciating minute of David Bell on the pitch.
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
This is the bit I struggle with. I can see and acknowledge that the decline of our football club can be traced long back. Without wishing to apportion blame – as it’s not the trust of my debate - it’s well over a decade.
However, when SISU arrived in December of 2007; Robinson wrote off £20m worth of debt, people handed over shares in the club held for many a generation to give them the best chance possible, and they moved forward with a plan – based on this financial landscape, and with a mantra of Operation Premiership and a route to the land of milk and honey.
As such, I can’t subscribe to the mind-set that our current situation is a demise that began well ahead of SISU’s stewardship. Yes, the fortunes of the club were on a downhill trend long, long before SISU were at the helm. But they secured all the conditions they wanted for their plan to be executed. This was the watershed at which talk of previous regimes, and blame in their direction, stopped.
Surely everything that comes thereafter is wholly SISU’s inability to stick to the plan they devised, based on conditions they designed? :thinking about:
However, when SISU arrived in December of 2007; Robinson wrote off £20m worth of debt, people handed over shares in the club held for many a generation to give them the best chance possible, and they moved forward with a plan – based on this financial landscape, and with a mantra of Operation Premiership and a route to the land of milk and honey.
As such, I can’t subscribe to the mind-set that our current situation is a demise that began well ahead of SISU’s stewardship. Yes, the fortunes of the club were on a downhill trend long, long before SISU were at the helm. But they secured all the conditions they wanted for their plan to be executed. This was the watershed at which talk of previous regimes, and blame in their direction, stopped.
Surely everything that comes thereafter is wholly SISU’s inability to stick to the plan they devised, based on conditions they designed? :thinking about:
TommyAtkins
New Member
Apologies for the delay in replying, valiant but I had a luncheon engagement with friends on Sunday, including a football journalist, who was able to offer some more interesting thoughts about CCFC.
Nevertheless, I don't believe there can be many SISU sympathisers out there. Nor can there be many people who thought we would avoid relegation.
In real terms, what actual damage has been done? If the takeover hadn't happened, we would have been placed in administration 4 years ago and relegated to League One.
We are now in League One, which just goes to show that the takeover only served to delay the inevitable.
It was like giving Junior Dispirin to someone with flu. It tasted nice at first and seemed to have an effect. But in reality, we were treating the symptoms and not the root cause.
The simple realities are that this club is leaking money and that SISU ran out of money (and will power) to continue to prop up the club. Hence, why the plan changed.
Still very few people are able to explain where the money (needed for the squad) was supposed to come from.
Robinson, according to the Times rich list, is worth about £25 million. Perhaps Sir Geoffrey would like to confirm whether or not he wrote off money, how much that money was and confirm how much money he made from CCFC over the years.
It is perfectly possible to write off a sum of money, having already made a profit in the first place. Write-off what is owed doesn't mean losing his initial investment
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lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
That is true, Tommy been pretty consistent, along with myself in not trusting Sisu's intentions or finances(Ray "Debt free" Ranson included).
Unlike many of the "Born again" Sisu haters, who were so far up Sisu's and ranson's arse,not changed our views, but never been hysterical and childish with it either.
You can't say that Thorn is not a particularly good manager, without being accused of being a rabid Sisu lover on here, when the opposite would be the case I'd have thought in supporting their appointment despite all evidence to the contrary that he is a good manager.
TommyAtkins
New Member
delboy - thanks for your post. Cloughie - your inevitable apology is accepted in advance.
I certainly wasn't the first to warn against SISU. I recall Lordsummerisle, Voodayray and possibly GPE expressing concern as soon as SISU's background became clear.
My line was that we had no choice. We had to accept the Ranson/SISU offer because they were the only bidder (apart from Robinson's last minute bid to buy the club from himself).
The alternative was administration and almost certain relegation. My concern at the time was that liquidation would have been a very real likelihood for the administrator. As we can see from the Rangers' situation, liquidation is always a threat.
For these reasons, I welcome the takeover. And I wasn't the only one. I caveated that with caution on the grounds that we had plenty of reason to be wary of any owner, given the way GR abd BR ruined the club.
The phrase I used right from the start was SISU's "intentions are opaque to us".
But I had to place this wider in a wider context. Back in 2007/8, I suspected that the funds were limited and that any money would have to be spent very wisely because I looked at the Championship and saw a division that was getting more competitive every season. I didn't believe that SISU had the money to turn us into challengers. Consequently, I saw we had one small window to become challengers. That would have been Season 2 under SISU. Then I expected a gradual decline to the point where relegation was more likely than promotion and that relegation was highly probable for Season 2011/2012.
You will recall that under SISU, we have struggled every season. But for pretty much every season since 2001, we have struggled anyway. We may have seen ourselves as play-off contenders but most people see us as strugglers.
I have always believed that our relegation in 2001 was the first visible evidence that we are a club in decline. SISU only delayed that decline. It happens in football and we are not immune to market forces. There was only so long that we could exist on borrowed money. Sooner or later, this club would have to face up to its financial responsibilities.
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
I see this as a macabre side-show, Tommy. How ever much Sir Geoffrey wrote off, it was a value attractive enough for SISU to deem sufficient to move forwards with their plan. Thereafter, it's execution becomes SISU's responsibility wholly and entirely in my world. Otherwise - they could have allowed the club to enter administration and make their bid with the administrator. They didn't and therefore - in my view - they take responsibility for the club's affairs
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We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Sorry guys, you are all throwing peoples names about as being SISU supporters and it's getting ridiculous. Please do not make another accusation without a quote or we will have to close this thread.
If someone genuinely has voiced support for SISU then it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Thanks
If someone genuinely has voiced support for SISU then it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Thanks
TheParsonsHose
Member
I think we all know that SISU had an opportunity to sort this mess out a long time ago. It started with the fire sale and we all know we were not good enough as a team this season as a result.
The BR years started the ball rolling and SISU have just pushed it a little further. We got ourselves into a stupid situation of having to choose SISU without choices and all assumed in good faith that they would support the club.
Clearly they had not done their homework on owning a football club and expected it to be a much earlier ride, the rest is now the history of our demise.
The BR years started the ball rolling and SISU have just pushed it a little further. We got ourselves into a stupid situation of having to choose SISU without choices and all assumed in good faith that they would support the club.
Clearly they had not done their homework on owning a football club and expected it to be a much earlier ride, the rest is now the history of our demise.
TommyAtkins
New Member
But when it comes to context, what actual damage has been done?
All that has happened is what should/could/would have happened 4 years.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
Tommy, perhaps you should ask Tim Fisher.
In his interview on Saturday he was asked what the wage budget would be for next year, given the massive loss of revenue due to relegation.
He replied that he was planning for it to be "similar to last year".
This would involve a much greater investment from SISU than the modest "can we please fund a loan striker for 3 months" investment that a number of us were calling for.
Given that TF was appointed by SISU, is their "man on the ground" and that they are "excellent businessmen" - I'm sure they've kept him well informed as to their financial position.
So why does he think that the money is available now?
Tommy,i agree with most of what you are saying. Sisu should of cut costs from the start,if they would of been open and honest with the fans and said we need to cut costs etc to get the club back on a sound financial footing then fair enough,we wouldn't of liked it but I'm sure most fans would of gone along with it.
TheParsonsHose
Member
You SISU sympathiser you....! :facepalm:
TommyAtkins
New Member
Valiant - what is important is the long-term future of Coventry City Football Club.
I know we both agree on that.
In reality, perhaps no damage has been done. We have ended up in League One, which is where we would have been 4 years ago if the takeover had failed.
Was it worth it? I think the takeover was a worthwhile risk, not that we had the choice as fans.
I think we are skirting over the issue of Sisu (hedge fund) or, as it was initially, Sisu (hedge fund) with Ranson ( bloke who knew footy and interface with fans).
The reality of Sisu, their incompetence , lack of sensible strategy, etc. only really became apparent once RR had gone.
The reality of Sisu, their incompetence , lack of sensible strategy, etc. only really became apparent once RR had gone.
lordsummerisle
Well-Known Member
RR's so called knowledge of football meant appointing some of the worst managers we;ve ever had in Coleman and Boothroyd(Thorn too), wasting what resources were available.
His "interface" with the fans mostly seemed to be a rather smug "We are debt free".