The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

[Grendel]

The elected representatives don't hold executive power which is in the hands of an unelected old woman and superseded by a building overflowing with unelected peers. It's amazing how you perform these mental gymnastics to justify the Prime Minister acting in this way

You should go on question time and word for word repeat that - I think you need a lie down you’ve lost your mind

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why are Tony, Brighton and co avoiding this simple basic fact?

Because Corbyn cannot command enough MPs who would back a government led by him and if another election is called it will essentially be a Brexit referendum with the Remain vote split between Labour and the Libs which will hand Johnson a supermajority. Much better to just have a referendum outright and put your preference to the test

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You should go on question time and word for word repeat that - I think you need a lie down you’ve lost your mind

Are you saying that a bill passed in the Commons automatically becomes law?

 

[skybluetony176]

“The prime minister controls the timetable” and this article purely focuses on the normal protocol prior to the Parliament Act. There are several commentators who actually say the act was hastily put together and the government can delay further due to a constitutional loophole in the wording

Even if the prior legislature is accepted as fact there is zero doubt that the prime minister can organise an election in November

The fact this has been abandoned as a plan by the usual suspects tells you something

Is it too late to hold an election before Brexit?

Try reading your own link. It says “If nothing is resolved after 14 days, a general election is automatically triggered.” “AUTOMATICALLY”. That means it’s out of Boris’ hands and a GE will be happening 25 days later regardless of what Boris says.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why are Tony, Brighton and co avoiding this simple basic fact?

Where have I avoided it?

 

[skybluetony176]

The elected representatives are in parliament and 83% of the public voted for parties committed to delivering an exit from the European Union

Based on a deal. Not no deal. No one stood on no deal and got voted in .

 

[CovInEssex]

Supermajority? Do we have a senate now

 

[djr8369]

Why are Tony, Brighton and co avoiding this simple basic fact?

Why do you keep banging on about a VoNC? It doesn’t legitimise what Johnson is attempting and in fact reduces his motive for trying to force no deal through in this manner.

Again, please stop deflecting.


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[Grendel]

Because Corbyn cannot command enough MPs who would back a government led by him and if another election is called it will essentially be a Brexit referendum with the Remain vote split between Labour and the Libs which will hand Johnson a supermajority. Much better to just have a referendum outright and put your preference to the test

Well with respect Johnson was elected very clearly by the MPs and his members to leave on Oct 31

There is and always has been a clear way to avoid this. According to you a hard Brexit is Armageddon - so the green Mp, the welsh and Scottish nationalists, the undems and austerity Anna and her motley bunch will all back Corbyn as this is a national crises and not time to play party politics.

So is it a national crises or are we playing party politics? I hate to break it to you but Sturgeon wants a hard Brexit as she wants power. Swinson wants to just revoke article 50. Corbyn has rejected the most moderate leave arrangement possible as he wanted the top job

Now as all these people are as bad as Mr Johnson you somehow want the queen to run the country

It’s hysterical

 

[Grendel]

Why do you keep banging on about a VoNC? It doesn’t legitimise what Johnson is attempting and in fact reduces his motive for trying to force no deal through in this manner.

Again, please stop deflecting.


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Because if they don’t they should accept the government is the constitutional elected government and not try and prevent them acting as the government by means that threaten our democratic processes

 

[Ian1779]

Because Corbyn cannot command enough MPs who would back a government led by him and if another election is called it will essentially be a Brexit referendum with the Remain vote split between Labour and the Libs which will hand Johnson a supermajority. Much better to just have a referendum outright and put your preference to the test

Then there can’t be enough MP’s that want to stop a No-Deal. The Lib Dems want a place at the table more than they want to stop a No-Deal.

 

[Grendel]

Then there can’t be enough MP’s that want to stop a No-Deal. The Lib Dems want a place at the table more than they want to stop a No-Deal.

Exactly!

 

[djr8369]

Because if they don’t they should accept the government is the constitutional elected government and not try and prevent them acting as the government by means that threaten our democratic processes

Still deflecting


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[SIR ERNIE]

Corbyn’s route of VONC and temp government is actually the ONLY route to stop a no-deal Brexit if Boris wants to pursue it - in this parliament at least.

So it come down to those who say he can’t command a majority - what do you want more?

Exactly.

 

[djr8369]

Well with respect Johnson was elected very clearly by the MPs and his members to leave on Oct 31

There is and always has been a clear way to avoid this. According to you a hard Brexit is Armageddon - so the green Mp, the welsh and Scottish nationalists, the undems and austerity Anna and her motley bunch will all back Corbyn as this is a national crises and not time to play party politics.

So is it a national crises or are we playing party politics? I hate to break it to you but Sturgeon wants a hard Brexit as she wants power. Swinson wants to just revoke article 50. Corbyn has rejected the most moderate leave arrangement possible as he wanted the top job

Now as all these people are as bad as Mr Johnson you somehow want the queen to run the country

It’s hysterical

Nobody wants the queen to run the country. Stop trying to twist things. It’s your man Johnson who is forcing the queen to be involved


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Then there can’t be enough MP’s that want to stop a No-Deal. The Lib Dems want a place at the table more than they want to stop a No-Deal.

I don't disagree but the question was why doesn't Corbyn form an alternative government-the answer is he couldn't with the MPs available

 

[Ian1779]

I don't disagree but the question was why doesn't Corbyn form an alternative government-the answer is he couldn't with the MPs available

Which means that party manoeuvres are more important than stopping a No Deal.

Swinson, Soubry and the so-called Tory rebel’s all claim to want to stop no deal at all costs. It’s not true is it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well with respect Johnson was elected very clearly by the MPs and his members to leave on Oct 31

There is and always has been a clear way to avoid this. According to you a hard Brexit is Armageddon - so the green Mp, the welsh and Scottish nationalists, the undems and austerity Anna and her motley bunch will all back Corbyn as this is a national crises and not time to play party politics.

So is it a national crises or are we playing party politics? I hate to break it to you but Sturgeon wants a hard Brexit as she wants power. Swinson wants to just revoke article 50. Corbyn has rejected the most moderate leave arrangement possible as he wanted the top job

Now as all these people are as bad as Mr Johnson you somehow want the queen to run the country

It’s hysterical

Yes Johnson a man not elected by the people either, but by a few hundred thousand Tory party members. A man who thought it was an outrage when Gordon Brown inherited his position without having to win an election. I want the Queen to prevent Boris' abuse of power-no more, no less. She either has a purpose or she doesn't and if she does let's simply elect a ceremonial leader instead.

The answer is another referendum-No Deal vs Remain, and let the outcome be binding. That is how to fix a mess that Parliament, Corbyn included, evidently can't

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which means that party manoeuvres are more important than stopping a No Deal.

Swinson, Soubry and the so-called Tory rebel’s all claim to want to stop no deal at all costs. It’s not true is it.

Because they are all scrambling for their own bits of power. They would however back another referendum with a Brexit extension to allow the vote to take place. If the Brexiters think they have enough support they won't shy away from a second vote.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Johnson wants a VONC. He wants an election run on “these bastards are stopping Brexit”

Yes, he'd be happy with one because he knows he'd have a good chance of winning a GE.
...that's democracy for you.

On the other hand Corbyn's been telling us for the last year that he wants one, so it's got to be VONC now or never.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Because they are all scrambling for their own bits of power. They would however back another referendum with a Brexit extension to allow the vote to take place. If the Brexiters think they have enough support they won't shy away from a second vote.

Labour policy is GE is preferable to 2nd referendum.
Put up or shut up Corbyn.

 

[Grendel]

Still deflecting


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No I’m not. Do you accept the opposition action was more anti democratic than suspending parliament?

 

[djr8369]

No I’m not. Do you accept the opposition action was more anti democratic than suspending parliament?

No I don’t accept that as that’s ridiculous.


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[Grendel]

No I don’t accept that as that’s ridiculous.


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Based on what?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You should go on question time and word for word repeat that - I think you need a lie down you’ve lost your mind

But what he wrote is completely true. Constitutionally the queen has final say and veto - it's just she would never use it because it would be the end of the monarchy when civil war started. The HoL can strike down anything the HoC does, but again it rarely does so because it brings into focus the Lords reform.

So in terms of legal constitutional power its Monarch, Lords, Commons.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Labour policy is GE is preferable to 2nd referendum.
Put up or shut up Corbyn.

I don't know how many times I have to say I don't want another GE and I think Labour would be suicidal to push for one now.

 

[djr8369]

Based on what?

Based on the fact the commons is there to discuss and vote on legislation and removing its right to do so is, by definition, anti democratic as the commons is the voice of the people.




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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Based on what?

Says that the Commons is our democracy, supports stifling it through suspension. No contradictions at all

 

[SIR ERNIE]

I don't know how many times I have to say I don't want another GE

Corbyn does though.

...Or at least he did last week: "Brexit must go back to the people in a General Election"

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Corbyn does though.

...Or at least he did last week: "Brexit must go back to the people in a General Election"

I know that and I don't agree-I've been criticising him for it for months. It must go back to the people...in a referendum without a split Remain vote

 

[fernandopartridge]

So it's 5 weeks from 9th September (presumably some of this is the traditional party conference season)

 

[Sick Boy]

So it's 5 weeks from 9th September (presumably some of this is the traditional party conference season)

Yep and after a nice long summer holiday

 

[Grendel]

Based on the fact the commons is there to discuss and vote on legislation and removing its right to do so is, by definition, anti democratic as the commons is the voice of the people.




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Bollocks. When was the last time such a motion has been allowed in parliament to forced government to act against policy without a no confidence motion?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Bollocks. When was the last time such a motion has been allowed in parliament to forced government to act against policy without a no confidence motion?

When was the last time a Prime Minister sought to prorogue Parliament to force through a shit policy

 

[Grendel]

When was the last time a Prime Minister sought to prorogue Parliament to force through a shit policy

Shit policy is subjective - 1948 on the prologue question. 1707 on queens being involved - never to my knowledge on the remainer idea