The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (49 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

FFS the spin on here, look at the map, speaking very plainly the great majority of the nation in area terms voted for Brexit, the ' Remain ' vote again came from ' We want out Scotland ' and the ' Foreign vote' in and around the big cities, plus a few we are doing very nicely types in the affluent South. Like it or not, ordinary English and Welsh born folk are sending a message.

Or is it that the leavers rallied around one particular party, Brexit, whereas the Remain vote got split between Lib Dem and Green predominantly? The Leave/Remain thing is as divided as it ever was and pretty much split down the middle.

 

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[skybluetony176]

Anyhow. Parties with a clear remain stance far outweigh in share of the votes parties with a clear leave stance. Maybe the country has changed its mind afterall.

 

[djr8369]

What you describe there is pretty much in place. Disenfranchised millions, fed up working full time for a wage that barely covers the high cost of living, whilst they see EU migrants pouring in forcing down wages with their sheer numbers and the nation spunking away billions to the EU when Nanna has to wait months to get a basic operation at the local hospital and the kids classes are teaming with kids whose first language isn't English and we are constantly told pollution and environmental destruction is on the rise whilst it can't possibly have anything to do with 1/4 million more people every year can it ?!

Without immigration the NHS will struggle a lot more as they lower the average age and on average pay more into it. This is the dirty secret politicians don’t want to discuss, as a nation we are on average too old and immigration keeps us going.

The money sent to the EU is far lower than what we’ll lose in trade if we leave, again to supposed solution will exacerbate the problem.


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[skybluetony176]

Or is it that the leavers rallied around one particular party, Brexit, whereas the Remain vote got split between Lib Dem and Green predominantly? The Leave/Remain thing is as divided as it ever was and pretty much split down the middle.

In a referendum it’s one man one vote. On that basis Brexit Ltd had a bad night.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

1) This wasn't a leave vs remain referendum. It was a European election.

2) About 1 million non-UK citizens were registered to vote.

3) The Brexit party still won anyway.

Why are people still trying to twist it? Absolutely pathetic and delusional.

 

[Evo1883]

Last night if you ACTUALLY do the maths

Remain parties got 40%
Brexit parties got 44%

That leaves Labour
I have no idea where them Labour voters lie but let's assume 70% remainers like the referendum

Basically the numbers show another referendum would be split again.

There is no mandate for a second referendum, just more arguing, more bitterness and more hatred.

We honour the ACTUAL referendum and leave the European Union... That's the only way to move forward

I assure you, not honouring the election of 2016 will be FAR more damaging for the future of British politics and the anger currently displayed by people in this country

 

[Evo1883]

Anyhow. Parties with a clear remain stance far outweigh in share of the votes parties with a clear leave stance. Maybe the country has changed its mind afterall.

Nonsense, Labour are a leave party in its 2017 manifesto, tories are leave.. That would equate to 60% leave parties getting the vote.

If you want to be pedantic

Of course I don't believe that's the case, it's probably nion identical to 2016

 

[skybluetony176]

Last night if you ACTUALLY do the maths

Remain parties got 40%
Brexit parties got 44%

That leaves Labour
I have no idea where them Labour voters lie but let's assume 70% remainers like the referendum

Basically the numbers show another referendum would be split again.

There is no mandate for a second referendum, just more arguing, more bitterness and more hatred.

We honour the ACTUAL referendum and leave the European Union... That's the only way to move forward

I assure you, not honour g the election of 2016 will be FAR more damaging for the future of British politics and the anger currently displayed by people in this country

Remain parties got 40.4% of the votes
Leave Parties 34.9% of the votes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes you are right... which means the main parties need to find a way to arrange a sensible exit from the EU. Not the car-crash shite that Farage wants.

Never going to happen. Too many hard Brexiteers like JRM will only accept no deal. Remainers and soft Brexiteers never going to go for no deal vote in parliament.

So Parliament will never reach a consensus. A new PM could try to just push through a deal without parliament, but parliament will block it like they did with May.

Put the deal to a public vote and you'd probably get the same thing. Hard Brexiteers not wanting any deal at all and remainers won't vote for any either.

General election won't solve this either - vote for pro-remain and pro-Brexit is pretty much equal so you'll just get a parliament like this one.

Which leaves the only hope as a second referendum, but with a far more specific question ie do you want to leave the EU and trade under WTO rules (no deal) or remain. Other than that we're going to go round and round in circles, unless the EU decides to just say 'see ya' and force us out with no deal, but they won't wnat that either.

 

[Evo1883]

Remain parties got 40.4% of the votes
Leave Parties 34.9% of the votes.

I've just replied to this, you are missing out the tories and Labour, which is shady at best

Tories and Labour according to their manifestos are leave parties that will honour the referendum... Remember


Even if you take away labour, flat out leave parties are at 44%, how you split the labour vote who knows.
For example my dad and sister voted Labour just because its Labour, they voted leave and still want to leave

 

[martcov]

1) This wasn't a leave vs remain referendum. It was a European election.

2) About 1 million non-UK citizens were registered to vote.

3) The Brexit party still won anyway.

Why are people still trying to twist it? Absolutely pathetic and delusional.

Not true.

„
With 10 of the 12 regions having declared, the total for the Liberal Democrats, Greens and Change UK was 5.95million.


That is compared with 5.79million for the Brexit Party and Ukip.

That is a 51-49 victory for Remain, showing how split the UK still is, three years after the EU referendum.

The remaining results, in Northern Ireland and Scotland, won't be announced until later on Monday.“

 

[Grendel]

Last night if you ACTUALLY do the maths

Remain parties got 40%
Brexit parties got 44%

That leaves Labour
I have no idea where them Labour voters lie but let's assume 70% remainers like the referendum

Basically the numbers show another referendum would be split again.

There is no mandate for a second referendum, just more arguing, more bitterness and more hatred.

We honour the ACTUAL referendum and leave the European Union... That's the only way to move forward

I assure you, not honouring the election of 2016 will be FAR more damaging for the future of British politics and the anger currently displayed by people in this country

30% of SNP voters voted brexit as did the welsh nationalist voters it’s bizarre to state anything has really changed in people’s view on the issue

 

[Grendel]

I've just replied to this, you are missing out the tories and Labour, which is shady at best

Tories and Labour according to their manifestos are leave parties that will honour the referendum... Remember


Even if you take away labour, flat out leave parties are at 44%, how you split the labour vote who knows.
For example my dad and sister voted Labour just because its Labour, they voted leave and still want to leave

63% of labour seats are leave and some with significant leave majorities

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

They have lost Wales for the same reason they lost Scotland.. the Blair legacy of ambivalence towards towards austerity, and not championing investment in areas that desperately need it.

Then investment that Europe has been prioritising for those areas?

 

[Evo1883]

Mart don't forget remainers actually got out to vote and leave voters didn't, as remainers are the people with a point to prove.

So it doesn't even remotely tell a story of what people want

 

[Evo1883]

63% of labour seats are leave and some with significant leave majorities

So the figures still show an almost identical referendum result of 2016 even basing that on the sample turnout we have today

How remain are claiming victory is pretty desperate to say the least, leave area turnout was also down last night, people forget that

 

[skybluetony176]

Nonsense, Labour are a leave party in its 2017 manifesto, tories are leave.. That would equate to 60% leave parties getting the vote.

If you want to be pedantic

If Labour was a leave party then why did the lose votes to brexit Ltd? Same with the Tories? Both also lost votes to the remain parties. Neither have delivered Brexit, neither can agree on what Brexit is, both parties MP’s are split, the Tories version of leave is described as a betrayal, treason and not what we voted for and Labours version of leave doesn’t even go as far as the Tories. The we know what we voted for and out means out mob will not accept a customs union full stop. To try and count either Tories or labour as one thing or the other is clutching at straws to say the least. In fact given that Labours membership overwhelmingly backs a second referendum if you want to go down the route of clutching at straws and lumping either in with leave or remain the weight of evidence makes labour very much remain. Which only widens the gap between leave and remain wider in favour of remain.

 

[Evo1883]

If Labour was a leave party then why did the lose votes to brexit Ltd? Same with the Tories? Both also lost votes to the remain parties. Neither have delivered Brexit, neither can agree on what Brexit is, both parties MP’s are split, the Tories version of leave is described as a betrayal, treason and not what we voted for and Labours version of leave doesn’t even go as far as the Tories. The we know what we voted for and out means out mob will not accept a customs union full stop. To try and count either Tories or labour as one thing or the other is clutching at straws to say the least. In fact given that Labours membership overwhelmingly backs a second referendum if you want to go down the route of clutching at straws and lumping either in with leave or remain the weight of evidence makes labour very much remain. Which only widens the gap between leave and remain wider in favour of remain.

I've just told you leavers still voted Labour last night(in my own family) i'm not clutching, you are.

My word you are Insufferable

 

[skybluetony176]

I've just replied to this, you are missing out the tories and Labour, which is shady at best

Tories and Labour according to their manifestos are leave parties that will honour the referendum... Remember


Even if you take away labour, flat out leave parties are at 44%, how you split the labour vote who knows.
For example my dad and sister voted Labour just because its Labour, they voted leave and still want to leave

I remember. Both their versions of leave are not what we voted for, treasonous, a betrayal etc etc. Remember?

 

[Grendel]

If Labour was a leave party then why did the lose votes to brexit Ltd? Same with the Tories? Both also lost votes to the remain parties. Neither have delivered Brexit, neither can agree on what Brexit is, both parties MP’s are split, the Tories version of leave is described as a betrayal, treason and not what we voted for and Labours version of leave doesn’t even go as far as the Tories. The we know what we voted for and out means out mob will not accept a customs union full stop. To try and count either Tories or labour as one thing or the other is clutching at straws to say the least. In fact given that Labours membership overwhelmingly backs a second referendum if you want to go down the route of clutching at straws and lumping either in with leave or remain the weight of evidence makes labour very much remain. Which only widens the gap between leave and remain wider in favour of remain.

The only one whose straw clutching is you

 

[Ashdown]

The point being the growth of the Far East as an economic powerhouse and the increased use of machinery and a.i. in Europe to remain competitive. Then comes the crash of 2008 which we, normal people, have not yet compensated with our incomes. Loads of reasons to be worried. Easy for populists to point at foreigners as the problem and people of other religions, colours or sexual preferences as being „ morally wrong“ or inferior to the majority population. Splitting Europe will not solve the main problems facing Western Europe. Farage has not offered one tangible, unarguable economic benefit to Brexit. Only nationalistic rhetoric. He has even said that Brexit is not about economics ( since the referendum of course ). If you seriously want to make Europe better for everyone as you claim, you should vote green.

I didn't actually vote Mart, circumstances and disillusion meant I skipped it ! I'm just musing as why people are voting like they are.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Not true.

„
With 10 of the 12 regions having declared, the total for the Liberal Democrats, Greens and Change UK was 5.95million.


That is compared with 5.79million for the Brexit Party and Ukip.

That is a 51-49 victory for Remain, showing how split the UK still is, three years after the EU referendum.

The remaining results, in Northern Ireland and Scotland, won't be announced until later on Monday.“

It's desperate and you're making yourself look silly again.

I don't like the result of the game so I'll forget the result and add in the goals that Huddersfield Town scored in their game to our tally. There we go, we win!

Hahahaha.

 

[Evo1883]

Anti EU parties won last night in Britain, France and Italy

3 of Europe's power 5 countries, let that sink in

 

[skybluetony176]

I've just told you leavers still voted Labour last night(in my own family) i'm not clutching, you are.

My word you are Insufferable

The labour membership has voted unanimously in favour of a second referendum by a margin of 72%. Its as simple as that. You’re family are clearly in a minority. Sorry facts are insufferable.

 

[Evo1883]

The labour membership has voted unanimously in favour of a second referendum by a margin of 72%. Its as simple as that. You’re family are clearly in a minority. Sorry facts are insufferable.

I forgot, everybody that voted Labour is a Labour member... My god it gets worse

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I demand another referendum! Wah wah wah.

 

[Grendel]

The labour membership has voted unanimously in favour of a second referendum by a margin of 72%. Its as simple as that. You’re family are clearly in a minority. Sorry facts are insufferable.

The labour membership accounts for how many people?

 

[skybluetony176]

30% of SNP voters voted brexit as did the welsh nationalist voters it’s bizarre to state anything has really changed in people’s view on the issue

Both parties stood the election on a clear remain referendum.

 

[Grendel]

Both parties stood the election on a clear remain referendum.

That’s not the point - the quote came from the BBC electoral pundit who you frequently quote on here

 

[Ashdown]

Without immigration the NHS will struggle a lot more as they lower the average age and on average pay more into it. This is the dirty secret politicians don’t want to discuss, as a nation we are on average too old and immigration keeps us going.

The money sent to the EU is far lower than what we’ll lose in trade if we leave, again to supposed solution will exacerbate the problem.


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I don't completely agree but even siding with your point then specifically recruit for the NHS then, why the ridiculous open door policies of present ?!...........Oh yes.......it was thought by Blair and Co that all new arrivals would vote Labour on a political note..........and economically the multinationals want the numbers for cheap labour and to keep wages down for the locals. This upward cycle of constant consumerism to support increasing numbers is not the answer for a small overcrowded country is it ?!

 

[djr8369]

I don't completely agree but even siding with your point then specifically recruit for the NHS then, why the ridiculous open door policies of present ?!...........Oh yes.......it was thought by Blair and Co that all new arrivals would vote Labour on a political note..........and economically the multinationals want the numbers for cheap labour and to keep wages down for the locals. This upward cycle of constant consumerism to support increasing numbers is not the answer for a small overcrowded country is it ?!

How will Brexit help constant consumerism if the theory is we will do trade deals with different countries instead?


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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We honour the ACTUAL referendum and leave the European Union... That's the only way to move forward

As I said above, Parliament will block that. Second, specific, referendum saying "no Deal" or "Remain" is only solution. I have no idea who'd win that and I think it'd be very close again.

But part of me wants that to happen so leavers will be made starkly aware of the realities of what they voted for. There will be far more jobs lost with companies leaving than are ever taken by immigrants and the "right to make our own laws" will result in massive deregulation aimed at benefitting the rich and big business while their own standards of living and rights will be eroded. And that's not even going into the things they won't notice like national security and emboldening the likes of Putin. It'll be a shitshow and 5-10 years after leaving there's be a massive surge in returning IMO.

 

[skybluetony176]

The only one whose straw clutching is you

I’m not trying to say that a party who’s membership backs a second referendum overwhelmingly by a margin of 72% is a leave party. I’m actually discounting them as either despite what their membership is demanding. If I am clutching at straws by discounting them it’s in favour of leave. If you look at the results either in terms of vote share or MEP’s elected the Brexit Party hoovered up UKIP’s vote (clearly an indication that Brexit is a racist party with a racist leader going by your posting history on the subject of UKIP) and took a much smaller share of the votes from Labour and the Tories when compared to Lib Dem’s and the Greens especially. Lib Dem’s and Greens success was solely at the loss of the Tories and Labour.

 

[Grendel]

This I assume is where the SNP stat came from

36 of SNP and Labour supporters backed Brexit, finds survey

 

[Grendel]

I’m not trying to say that a party who’s membership backs a second referendum overwhelmingly by a margin of 72% is a leave party. I’m actually discounting them as either despite what their membership is demanding. If I am clutching at straws by discounting them it’s in favour of leave. If you look at the results either in terms of vote share or MEP’s elected the Brexit Party hoovered up UKIP’s vote (clearly an indication that Brexit is a racist party with a racist leader going by your posting history on the subject of UKIP) and took a much smaller share of the votes from Labour and the Tories when compared to Lib Dem’s and the Greens especially. Lib Dem’s and Greens success was solely at the loss of the Tories and Labour.

I’ll try again - how many members are there in the Labour Party

The conservative Party has a manifesto totally committed to leave