The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (7 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

Otis

Well-Known Member
So what’s the question on the ballot paper then?
Now that IS s tough one. No idea how you word it, but I don't think you can have too many options on the ballot paper, it would be too confusing.

Think I will leave that to the experts.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
So what’s the question on the ballot paper then?

The question should be the same as last time, after all Remainers have been telling us that people are allowed to change their minds.

If that’s the case, just ask the same question again, let's see if they have.

But the problem with that is that Leave would probably win, so they will need to prevent that by putting May’s shocking deal up against Remain. Job done.

You gotta laugh, stinks doesn’t it.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
The question should be the same as last time, after all Remainers have been telling us that people are allowed to change their minds.

If that’s the case, just ask the same question again.

But the problem with that is that Leave would probably win, so they will need to prevent that by putting May’s shocking deal up against Remain. Job done.

You gotta laugh, stinks doesn’t it.
You can't just have leave/remain.

If it results in leave we are just back to where we are now.

Needs to be more specific.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
Would have thought most of the 17.4m who voted to leave No deal assumed the 2 main parties would honour their commitment to respect the referendum and subsequent manifesto promises from 2017 election to work to deliver an acceptable leave deal.
None come out with any credit - No deal element for refusing to compromise, May running down the clock in an attempt to manipulate a deal through, may and Corbyn failing to properly try and see if they could find a consensus, Corbyn dithering then blowing with the wind on issues like 2nd referendums whilst going on about general elections, those that keep insisting EU will change their position if we wait long enough despite constant statements from EU for last 6 months that there was little wriggle room.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
You can't just have leave/remain.

If it results in leave we are just back to where we are now.

Needs to be more specific.
problem is you go past leave or remain and try and qualify the questions then less likely to have a clear majority. (ie over 50%).
 

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
problem is you go past leave or remain and try and qualify the questions then less likely to have a clear majority. (ie over 50%).
Guess it depends how you do it. Implicitly leave = May's deal (or no deal) really, doesn't it? So you could have a straightforward yes or no - but I assume legally you'd have to incorporate that into the question.

Pretty much as if the EU say we can't have an extension, I'd reckon a leave vote would suddenly see a commons majority for May's deal as least worst option for just about everybody, bar ERG and DUP!
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
I’ve got it

Do you want everything you want and none of what you don’t want?

Yes or no

That’s the reality of what was voted on before

Do you want the richest country in the world where we don’t have to work?

Yes or no

Do you want no immigration and the best free at point of need health service without paying salaries that people can’t live on?

Yes or no

Ffs it’s so infantile.

We can’t just bloody leave that’s the point. Anyone who said it would be easy and we wouldn’t have any negative consequences is a complete idiot

Anyone who thinks nothing needs changing and that the eu is working really well for all 28’countries is a complete idiot
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Would have thought most of the 17.4m who voted to leave No deal assumed the 2 main parties would honour their commitment to respect the referendum and subsequent manifesto promises from 2017 election to work to deliver an acceptable leave deal.

There is zero evidence that most of the 17.4M voted for no deal, none at all.
 

SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
You can't just have leave/remain.

If it results in leave we are just back to where we are now.

Needs to be more specific.

Do you seriously imagine that once the 2016 leave vote gets overturned, as it inevitably will, that'll be the end of it?

It's a certainty that the whole thing will start again but by then there'll be a leave majority of MPs and things will turn out differently.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
There is zero evidence that most of the 17.4M voted for no deal, none at all.
sorry that was a typo. No Deal was part of a second sentence that wasn't completed :)
Would have thought most of the 17.4m who voted to leave assumed the 2 main parties would honour their commitment to respect the referendum and subsequent manifesto promises from 2017 election to work to deliver an acceptable leave deal.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
13.03 Barnier..."I would like to simply recall to everybody : if the United Kingdom still wants to leave the European Union and leave it in an orderly fashion, then this treaty that we negotiated with Theresa May's government over the past year and a half remains the only treaty available."

So, the deal cannot be changed. JC is blowing smoke out of his ass, & misleading people if he is to persist with his alternative deal & saying he will go back to the EU with it. Unless we think Barnier is lying.

So, TM is right to put it back to Parliament - we have to accept the deal or just leave, or just ignore the 17.4m majority vote & stay & get steamrollered by the EU idealists.

At the moment I am thinking it is all such a mess, simply stucking to 29th March 'we leave' is the best plan. Deal or no deal. Then if the EU want a deal, maybe they will need to reconsider the deal together with us.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


Where do you get the 17.4 million majority from? You seem to forget the over 16 million who voted for remain.

What is an EU idealist? How do EU idealists steam roller things through?

It seems to be the ERG and DUP who would like steam roller May‘s deal by refusing to compromise. They are the idealists.

Remainers want a second referendum on the deal or remain. Hardly a steam roller. Leavers would be free to vote against remain.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
You can't just have leave/remain.

If it results in leave we are just back to where we are now.

Needs to be more specific.

Lol
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
sorry that was a typo. No Deal was part of a second sentence that wasn't completed :)
Would have thought most of the 17.4m who voted to leave assumed the 2 main parties would honour their commitment to respect the referendum and subsequent manifesto promises from 2017 election to work to deliver an acceptable leave deal.

How do you get an acceptable leave deal when leavers support/ want different versions of possible leave deals and half the country doesn’t want to leave anyway? Not possible.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Do you seriously imagine that once the 2016 leave vote gets overturned, as it inevitably will, that'll be the end of it?

It's a certainty that the whole thing will start again but by then there'll be a leave majority of MPs and things will turn out differently.

I don’t think it will be the end of it whatever happens. A bit like this thread.

I don’t think there will be a majority of leave MPs either. But, if there were, I think they should put leave to parliament and not to a referendum.

Parliament would have to agree on what leave is and negotiate on what they have agreed. Do it in the right order. Have a plan and try to obtain that result in the negotiations. Not as May did by setting her own red lines without having had a vote on what the red lines should be.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Personally I’d like the PM to show some real leadership, scrap her red lines she didn’t need to draw in the first place, gain cross party/parliament consensus on what brexit will/should look like, go to Brussels with this, renegotiate on that basis not her red lines, bring it back to parliament and vote on that. If she had done that in the first place I doubt we would be where we are today. If she doesn’t do that what other choice is there other than give the decision of her deal to the people. Either way we’re looking at an extension of article 50.

Just to recap. Renegotiate based on parliamentary consensus not her red lines or put her red line agreement to the people.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
sorry that was a typo. No Deal was part of a second sentence that wasn't completed :)
Would have thought most of the 17.4m who voted to leave assumed the 2 main parties would honour their commitment to respect the referendum and subsequent manifesto promises from 2017 election to work to deliver an acceptable leave deal.

I am sure a lot of them also believed the leading leavers that the UK could continue to enjoy the beneficial aspects of the single market without being in it. Then again Farage also kept going on about the Norway option which would have meant staying the Single Market.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
How do you get an acceptable leave deal when leavers support/ want different versions of possible leave deals and half the country doesn’t want to leave anyway? Not possible.
That's what nobody explained at the time.
Have to accept at the time over half wanted to leave.
Don't think anybody foresaw how divisively the leave camp was going to be split. Let's be honest go through that process again and May would never have been elected to replace cameron anyway.
Opinion polls as to where it stands atm have to be taken with caution as pre-referendum remain was ahead and the last General election polls were not particularly accurate. It was the don't knows that swayed it. Enough of those atm that could push the result in either direction. As many "Brexit no deal supporters" as those "remain supporters until we can get a good deal"? Simple leave or remain polls are misleading as they lack sufficient detail
Let's face it the most damning polls atm are the ones about whether Parliament is doing a good job on this issue
Lot of people just tired of it atm due to lack of a clear direction and want it to go away. Harsh but true.
How do we get through a 2nd referendum campaign which can be clearly understood by all voters? Who is going to objectively simplify the 580 odd page deal that the EU are prepared to offer? Do most voters understand what a Norway deal even is?
Election not the answer as have to figure constituencies with strong feelings either away are going to replace candidates that went against the particular wishes of constituents - possibly increasing the ERG which no-one wants. Are parties really brave enough to deal with backlash from those who voted to leave bring ignored? Why isn't the one proper remain party LibDems picking up supporters?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
That's what nobody explained at the time.
Have to accept at the time over half wanted to leave.
Don't think anybody foresaw how divisively the leave camp was going to be split. Let's be honest go through that process again and May would never have been elected to replace cameron anyway.
Opinion polls as to where it stands atm have to be taken with caution as pre-referendum remain was ahead and the last General election polls were not particularly accurate. It was the don't knows that swayed it. Enough of those atm that could push the result in either direction. As many "Brexit no deal supporters" as those "remain supporters until we can get a good deal"? Simple leave or remain polls are misleading as they lack sufficient detail
Let's face it the most damning polls atm are the ones about whether Parliament is doing a good job on this issue
Lot of people just tired of it atm due to lack of a clear direction and want it to go away. Harsh but true.
How do we get through a 2nd referendum campaign which can be clearly understood by all voters? Who is going to objectively simplify the 580 odd page deal that the EU are prepared to offer? Do most voters understand what a Norway deal even is?
Election not the answer as have to figure constituencies with strong feelings either away are going to replace candidates that went against the particular wishes of constituents - possibly increasing the ERG which no-one wants. Are parties really brave enough to deal with backlash from those who voted to leave bring ignored? Why isn't the one proper remain party LibDems picking up supporters?

To sum up: we’re up shit creek. Anyone got a paddle?
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Which is what I have been saying for ages. Yet I was supposed to be anti Labour for saying so.

He has been forced into a corner. Yet he seems to have put what he wants before what is best.

I think you tacked in quite a few other dubious points in the process...but yes I am really not impressed with what he’s doing. Yet I don’t know who should take on the mantle as clearly most Labour MPs want a return to Tory-lite
 

IrishSkyBlue

Facebook User
Jesus your MPs are a bunch of clowns, they rejected every tabled idea in the commons, the eu wont negotiate a new deal so why extend article 50, only thing left is to leave on a hard exit dont know what else they can try get out all this flaffing about!
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Omg part XXVI




Eurocunts.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
There is zero evidence that most of the 17.4M voted for no deal, none at all.
.....
No way have all leavers got what they think they voted for. Just look at the insults May gets from leavers, including Farage himself.....
There is/was so much spin from both sides before the vote that you can accuse all of them to spin the truth and pluck magic numbers from the air to sway people to their view point. But previous years of media hype and a discruntled pubilc, I would argue you can boil it down to three main factors that the 17.4M were most likely to be annoyed about:

- Immigration
- Spunking money to the EU
- Making our own laws

Thats the crux and I would imagine thats what all leavers would think thats what they were voting for. If those three bases are covered, most of that 17.4M aren't fussed about the details - leave that to the MPs to sort out.
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="RegTheDonk,

most of that 17.4M aren't fussed about the details - leave that to the MPs to sort out.[/QUOTE]
Actually this last bit should sum it up.
We vote Conservative because we want lower taxes. We understand the concept but aren't qualified to implement it. We expect the people we elected to sort it.
We vote Labour because we want a better NHS and fairer system. Again we understand the concepts but really aren't qualified to work out the details. Again that's why we voted for you so sort it out.
People voted Brexit because they assumed the people they normally vote for would deliver it for them.
 
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