The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (27 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

But you call people thick for not knowing everything. So maybe you should hold off with your insults.

Most opinion polls are done on the street or online these days. Is a passport/voting right ever shown when answering questions on a poll?

Insults. If you don’t like it when someone points out that a question mark at the end of the sentence means it’s a question not a statement how’s that an insult?

I’ve never been asked to take part in a political opinion poll so I couldn’t tell you how they work exactly. Hence the question. The only opinion poll I would say with any certainty that is done on the street is the exit polls.

 

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[martcov]

Little changes. Letter to newspaper 1918.

Indeed.

I wondered why you were quoting Balfour.

Anything to do with this?:

It’s time to admit that Arthur Balfour was a white supremacist — and an anti-Semite, too

Still it got a like from Dutchman.

 

[The Lurker]

Only 3000 for Tommy.

bullshit more lies from you!

Here’s the truth. so you and your cronies like Owen look very silly

I was doing the security on the march and police estimated 15000 for the brexit march

here’s a video. Waiting for your reply

 

[The Lurker]

Only a few arrests. Also, not many turned up and they were completely outnumbered by people opposed to them. A total humiliation for the far right and a disaster for leave supporters. Hundreds of thousands turned up for remain and a couple of thousand for Brexit.

do you really believe that? no one arrested in the brexit march yet the counter protest had multiple arrests. what does that tell you? do you really think only two thousand people were on the brexit march? really?

 

[martcov]

do you really believe that? no one arrested in the brexit march yet the counter protest had multiple arrests. what does that tell you? do you really think only two thousand people were on the brexit march? really?

No. It was reported 3000. But, I‘d say there were probably more looking at the photos. 3 arrests were reported.

 

[The Lurker]

No. It was reported 3000. But, I‘d say there were probably more looking at the photos. 3 arrests were reported.

reported by who? you come here bragging only 3,000 turned up and it was a disaster. clearly bullshit. as for arrests all on the ‘counter demo’ the left wing showed there true colours Sunday whereas normal folk who attended the march were peaceful and well behaved. yet none of this is reported. shows you had bad main stream media are

 

[The Lurker]

And just to prove my point. who were the real thugs and violent people Sunday. not the brexit marchers but the left wing. Owen Jones hasn’t condemned this. wonder why?

 

[Ashdown]

No. It was reported 3000. But, I‘d say there were probably more looking at the photos. 3 arrests were reported.

There was a damn sight more than 3000, probably at least double that I'd say but still Owen Jones made himself look the clown that he has become. He may have some valid points as regarding the super rich on other occasions but he let himself down badly with that diatribe of bullshit.

 

[Sick Boy]

My mini rant?

Yes my words. If they do their polls somewhere like London they will have a good chance of asking a lot of people not allowed to vote.

But you can look at it other ways. We will ignore the chance of asking those not allowed to vote. If they did their polls in Ireland or Scotland they would most probably get a remain result. Especially in Scotland as remain was a landslide there. Both of them voted to remain. If they ask the same question in England they would most probably get a leave result. More than 52% of England voted leave. It was 53.4%. Nearly 2m more people voted leave than remain in England.

But why should Scotland have to leave when 62% voted remain?

But there again why should England have to remain because Scotland wants to leave? The largest amount of population to vote was England. 73% of those able to vote did.

Look at the map of those who voted leave or remain. All of Scotland is yellow. Every area voted remain. Then look at England. Only London and a few other places are yellow. Nearly everywhere voted leave.

EU Referendum Results

Yet the polls before the referendum said we wanted to remain. So what are your thoughts on why the polls were so wrong? Because you 100% disagree that it could be down to who they ask.

I’ve already said, a lot of people who previously hadn’t voted went out and voted leave, or perhaps not large enough samples across a variety of places.

How do you explain how they got the General Election polls so wrong?

 

[Ashdown]

Those previous referendum results when looked at again show to me that there is a huge disparity in the haves and have nots in the vote. The wealthier and more foreign born areas of the UK voted Remain but the people who feel they have been let down and have been marginalised by the inequality in the country voted Leave. That is obviously a generalisation and many had all sorts of reasons for voting either way.
What it does highlight however, is the potential for unrest if the vote was simply overturned to suit the political classes, the wealthy and the academics of the South.

 

[clint van damme]

Those previous referendum results when looked at again show to me that there is a huge disparity in the haves and have nots in the vote. The wealthier and more foreign born areas of the UK voted Remain but the people who feel they have been let down and have been marginalised by the inequality in the country voted Leave. That is obviously a generalisation and many had all sorts of reasons for voting either way.
What it does highlight however, is the potential for unrest if the vote was simply overturned to suit the political classes, the wealthy and the academics of the South.

I think you're right. Which is why, in my opinion, we're now in the ludicrous position where no deal would probably be less damaging long term.
The Director general of the WTO recently gave a football analogy to describe the UK leaving with no deal, he said it would be like dropping from the first to fourth division.
So there's the choice, an economic basket case or massive civil unrest. It beggars belief.

 

[Sick Boy]

Those previous referendum results when looked at again show to me that there is a huge disparity in the haves and have nots in the vote. The wealthier and more foreign born areas of the UK voted Remain but the people who feel they have been let down and have been marginalised by the inequality in the country voted Leave. That is obviously a generalisation and many had all sorts of reasons for voting either way.
What it does highlight however, is the potential for unrest if the vote was simply overturned to suit the political classes, the wealthy and the academics of the South.

There were plenty of wealthy areas down south that voted leave too though. I’m not sure how the people left behind by the rich will benefit from Brexit either, which is going to make people angry too

 

[martcov]

Those previous referendum results when looked at again show to me that there is a huge disparity in the haves and have nots in the vote. The wealthier and more foreign born areas of the UK voted Remain but the people who feel they have been let down and have been marginalised by the inequality in the country voted Leave. That is obviously a generalisation and many had all sorts of reasons for voting either way.
What it does highlight however, is the potential for unrest if the vote was simply overturned to suit the political classes, the wealthy and the academics of the South.

The thing is that if you are right that the marginalized people voted leave, it is not them that will profit by leaving. They have been told that the EU controls us and that’s why we are where we are. It isn’t.

The USA and Russia also have millions of marginalised people and they are not in the EU.

It is not just an EU thing and leaving the EU won’t make the poor any richer. Davis going straight to the Heritage Foundation or Mogg‘s investment firm opening EU funds in Dublin are not signs of helping the marginalised.

The whole debate has now put the poorer people to the back for over 2,5 years.

That is the irony. They should be asking how people like Rees Mogg are so much richer than working people?

His deregulation plans would put them at the mercy of investors like his clients.

There must be a backlash against the leaders of Brexit at some time.

 

[martcov]

reported by who? you come here bragging only 3,000 turned up and it was a disaster. clearly bullshit. as for arrests all on the ‘counter demo’ the left wing showed there true colours Sunday whereas normal folk who attended the march were peaceful and well behaved. yet none of this is reported. shows you had bad main stream media are

I don’t write the reports. I am not bragging about anything, although it was not a massive march by any standards.

 

[Ashdown]

I think you're right. Which is why, in my opinion, we're now in the ludicrous position where no deal would probably be less damaging long term.
The Director general of the WTO recently gave a football analogy to describe the UK leaving with no deal, he said it would be like dropping from the first to fourth division.
So there's the choice, an economic basket case or massive civil unrest. It beggars belief.

No deal would be disruptive for sure but not the armageddon some would have you believe and it would save the country a lot of money to be able to deal with it wouldn't it ?! I E circa £39 billion Pounds to start with. In this event it would quickly motivate the big exporters to the UK to get some bureaucracy in place pronto hence frustrating the EU and their middle men all powerful status.

 

[Captain Dart]

I think you're right. Which is why, in my opinion, we're now in the ludicrous position where no deal would probably be less damaging long term.
The Director general of the WTO recently gave a football analogy to describe the UK leaving with no deal, he said it would be like dropping from the first to fourth division.
So there's the choice, an economic basket case or massive civil unrest. It beggars belief.

An analogy that made no sense whatever.

 

[Ashdown]

The thing is that if you are right that the marginalized people voted leave, it is not them that will profit by leaving. They have been told that the EU controls us and that’s why we are where we are. It isn’t.

The USA and Russia also have millions of marginalised people and they are not in the EU.

It is not just an EU thing and leaving the EU won’t make the poor any richer. Davis going straight to the Heritage Foundation or Mogg‘s investment firm opening EU funds in Dublin are not signs of helping the marginalised.

The whole debate has now put the poorer people to the back for over 2,5 years.

That is the irony. They should be asking how people like Rees Mogg are so much richer than working people?

His deregulation plans would put them at the mercy of investors like his clients.

There must be a backlash against the leaders of Brexit at some time.

You're not going to convince ordinary people that your class war is the only way. Besides if those types are then seen to be the problem after we have disposed of the EU then those types will be the next to be targeted aggressively.

 

[Ashdown]

I don’t write the reports. I am not bragging about anything, although it was not a massive march by any standards.

It wasn't a massive march for the fact that the people voted for Brexit and the people are waiting for it to be implemented......if its not however.......

 

[martcov]

You're not going to convince ordinary people that your class war is the only way. Besides if those types are then seen to be the problem after we have disposed of the EU then those types will be the next to be targeted aggressively.

I am not advocating class war. I am pointing out the irony of the poorest following the richest

 

[clint van damme]

No deal would be disruptive for sure but not the armageddon some would have you believe and it would save the country a lot of money to be able to deal with it wouldn't it ?! I E circa £39 billion Pounds to start with. In this event it would quickly motivate the big exporters to the UK to get some bureaucracy in place pronto hence frustrating the EU and their middle men all powerful status.

I have asked several times on here for someone to tell me why trading soley under the WTO wouldn't be a disaster.
I haven't had one salient answer.

Your post sounds along the lines of Liam Fox's assertion that we would sign dozens of trade deals the day after leaving. I don't think even he is trotting that one out any more seen as the average trade deal takes 18 months to negotiate and 4 years to implement.
Even if we can half that it's 9 months and 2 years.
And there can't be any thwarting under WTO rules, nor favours either, although it does go on and lead to disputes but they can take decades to resolve. You trade in line with your schedules until you agree a trade deal so the line about powerful EU middle men is empty rhetoric. They can allow us something which I think is called unilateral contingency and Barnier has indicated they will which will help in the case of a no deal but I think this only applies to service industries.

You'll notice there's a lot of I thinks in there so as I've always said, happy to be corrected on anything I've said.

 

[martcov]

It wasn't a massive march for the fact that the people voted for Brexit and the people are waiting for it to be implemented......if its not however.......

Here they claim 5000, which after seeing the RT video is more likely than 3000 reported elsewhere.

Three arrests as Tommy Robinson 'Brexit Betrayal' protest and counter-protest flood central London | JOE.co.uk

 

[skybluetony176]

I have asked several times on here for someone to tell me why trading soley under the WTO wouldn't be a disaster.
I haven't had one salient answer.

The simple answer is that if WTO was so good you wouldn’t have countries seeking trade deals with other countries outside of WTO.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Those previous referendum results when looked at again show to me that there is a huge disparity in the haves and have nots in the vote. The wealthier and more foreign born areas of the UK voted Remain but the people who feel they have been let down and have been marginalised by the inequality in the country voted Leave. That is obviously a generalisation and many had all sorts of reasons for voting either way.
What it does highlight however, is the potential for unrest if the vote was simply overturned to suit the political classes, the wealthy and the academics of the South.

The irony being that the inequality will continue to exponentially increase and the poor and marginalised will be made more poor and be marginalised more coming out of the eu. Certainly by any Tory government

 

[Ashdown]

I have asked several times on here for someone to tell me why trading soley under the WTO wouldn't be a disaster.
I haven't had one salient answer.

Your post sounds along the lines of Liam Fox's assertion that we would sign dozens of trade deals the day after leaving. I don't think even he is trotting that one out any more seen as the average trade deal takes 18 months to negotiate and 4 years to implement.
Even if we can half that it's 9 months and 2 years.
And there can't be any thwarting under WTO rules, nor favours either, although it does go on and lead to disputes but they can take decades to resolve. You trade in line with your schedules until you agree a trade deal so the line about powerful EU middle men is empty rhetoric. They can allow us something which I think is called unilateral contingency and Barnier has indicated they will which will help in the case of a no deal but I think this only applies to service industries.

You'll notice there's a lot of I thinks in there so as I've always said, happy to be corrected on anything I've said.

I did say things would be very disruptive and perhaps chaotic for a while and I think you probably know more than me about the nitty gritty of trade deals........all that said this would be a very unique situation and for the good of all, people would have to pull fingers out of arses for a change.

 

[Sick Boy]

I did say things would be very disruptive and perhaps chaotic for a while and I think you probably know more than me about the nitty gritty of trade deals........all that said this would be a very unique situation and for the good of all, people would have to pull fingers out of arses for a change.

Yeah can see it now, we all have to work harder and make sacrifices to put the great back into Great Britain...goodbye current working regulations

 

[Ashdown]

'unilateral contingency and Barnier has indicated they will which will help in the case of a no deal but I think this only applies to service industries'.
This is precisely the sort of option I can see being expanded and rolled out. Look, at the end of the day once the EU have been finally pushed aside the industrialists and money men will want this shit sorted out. The EU's problem of course will be trying to stop others opting out which has always been their biggest fear.

 

[Ashdown]

Yeah can see it now, we all have to work harder and make sacrifices to put the great back into Great Britain...goodbye current working regulations

Yeah we will......you pal on the other hand are pegging it to Italy !!:woot:

In fairness I may be spending more time in Spain too soon !

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just been advised by a colleague that the people voted to leave and we should just leave. The world won’t end. Oh well I’m convinced

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Have another friend convince me that we became great on our own and we can do so again. Mmmmmm I’m convinced again

 

[Ashdown]

The irony being that the inequality will continue to exponentially increase and the poor and marginalised will be made more poor and be marginalised more coming out of the eu. Certainly by any Tory government

I think we are going down the road of hung parliaments for some time......they're all frigging useless and not to be trusted. No one will surely trust Corbyn as he sits on that proverbial fence like a vulture while Rome burns !

 

[clint van damme]

I did say things would be very disruptive and perhaps chaotic for a while and I think you probably know more than me about the nitty gritty of trade deals........all that said this would be a very unique situation and for the good of all, people would have to pull fingers out of arses for a change.

To be honest I know little about trade deals but have been trying to understand what going under WTO rules will mean and it's a minefield and very complex.

So look at how the politicians have handled Brexit and can they be trusted to negotiate the trade deals we need? I think it takes a great deal of faith to have any confidence in them.
I don't know if you saw the BBC fly on the wall documentary the Foreign office but they were talking to a senior civil servant and he said Britain is seen to be in a weak position and the sharks are circling.
We're sending Liam fox in to deal with those sharks, let that sink in.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Ultimately this will be a matter of whether the government is prepared to betray the leave vote and risk not only the inevitable civil unrest but also alienating millions of their supporters.

Of the options currently available, a WTO Brexit is the only one that honours the result.

A strong leader with a sensible negotiating strategy would have focussed minds on a WTO Brexit from day one and would almost certainly have achieved considerably better than that by now.

 

[clint van damme]

'unilateral contingency and Barnier has indicated they will which will help in the case of a no deal but I think this only applies to service industries'.
This is precisely the sort of option I can see being expanded and rolled out. Look, at the end of the day once the EU have been finally pushed aside the industrialists and money men will want this shit sorted out. The EU's problem of course will be trying to stop others opting out which has always been their biggest fear.

I don't think the EU will fall apart, I think it's wishful thinking.
If Brexit turns out as bad as I fear it could it might be better for us if it did.

 

[clint van damme]

Ultimately this will be a matter of whether the government is prepared to betray the leave vote and risk not only the inevitable civil unrest but also alienating millions of their supporters.

Of the options currently available, a WTO Brexit is the only one that honours the result.

A strong leader with a sensible negotiating strategy would have focussed minds on a WTO Brexit from day one and would almost certainly have achieved considerably better than that by now.

The referendum should have had an option on the type of deal people wanted.
No deal, Norway etc.
This whole process would have been clearer from the start and we wouldn't be in this mess.
Plenty of leavers didn't vote to leave under no deal, that would have cleared it up one way or another.

 

[martcov]

Ultimately this will be a matter of whether the government is prepared to betray the leave vote and risk not only the inevitable civil unrest but also alienating millions of their supporters.

Of the options currently available, a WTO Brexit is the only one that honours the result.

A strong leader with a sensible negotiating strategy would have focussed minds on a WTO Brexit from day one and would almost certainly have achieved considerably better than that by now.

If he were focused on WTO from the start, which is the worst case scenario, we would get WTO. WTO is the base line. It is the equivalent of imposing trade sanctions on ourselves.