Coventry city centre (1 Viewer)

[wingy]

Still think Hydrogen is the way to go
See on the news last night a Scaled prototype train being tested out down at Long Marston .
Same piece had a full size one up and running on a line in a German City .

 

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[Otis]

The notion all cars will be electric by 2040 is a joke. As a driving machine they are fine but the logistical and infrastructure issues are enourmous

Yeah and of course in 22 years time technology won't have moved on a single jot and will be frozen in time.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah and of course in 22 years time technology won't have moved on a single jot and will be frozen in time.

It has zero to do with technology.

There are several issues.

Issue 1. Charging ability - can you perhaps explain to me how you will have a charging point in a 10th floor flat and you have no garage space?

 

[Otis]

It has zero to do with technology.

There are several issues.

Issue 1. Charging ability - can you perhaps explain to me how you will have a charging point in a 10th floor flat and you have no garage space?

No idea. Who's to say there won't be a removable battery that you can just take out and plug in at home.

Just saying none of us know how different things will be in the world in 20 years time.

Look now how graphene is going to change the world now.

2040 and the world will be a different place once again.

 

[wingy]

No idea. Who's to say there won't be a removable battery that you can just take out and plug in at home.

Just saying none of us know how different things will be in the world in 20 years time.

Look now how graphene is going to change the world now.

2040 and the world will be a different place once again.

Batteries are a large part of the expense I think .
Two Batteries ,one at home ready, the other in the vehicle, or a garage with pre charged exchange ones .

 

[Grendel]

No idea. Who's to say there won't be a removable battery that you can just take out and plug in at home.

Just saying none of us know how different things will be in the world in 20 years time.

Look now how graphene is going to change the world now.

2040 and the world will be a different place once again.

A removable battery? Do you know the dangers of lithium batteries and the issues with them?

Also what implications will this have for the retail industry?

 

[fernandopartridge]

It has zero to do with technology.

There are several issues.

Issue 1. Charging ability - can you perhaps explain to me how you will have a charging point in a 10th floor flat and you have no garage space?

How is the national grid going to produce the energy needed to charge millions of cars at once? Electric cars do nothing to solve reliance on fossil fuels.

 

[Grendel]

Batteries are a large part of the expense I think .
Two Batteries ,one at home ready, the other in the vehicle, or a garage with pre charged exchange ones .

Batteries are thousands of pounds - apparently soon according to Otis we will have some AA Duracell’s and you just put them in

 

[Otis]

Batteries are thousands of pounds - apparently soon according to Otis we will have some AA Duracell’s and you just put them in

If you bothered to read (which I know from experience that you don't) you will see that I said I had no idea and just took a guess off the top of my head.

Which part of 'no idea' don't you get exactly?

Well done though once again for totally misreading what someone has posted.

Batteries are thousands of pounds. What are the batteries of the future going to be? You seem to be able to read into the future that nothing will have changed in 20 years.

I suggest you look back 20 years and see how things have changed since then.

 

[Grendel]

If you bothered to read (which I know from experience that you don't) you will see that I said I had no idea and just took a guess off the top of my head.

Which part of 'no idea' don't you get exactly?

Well done though once again for totally misreading what someone has posted.

Batteries are thousands of pounds. What are the batteries of the future going to be? You seem to be able to read into the future that nothing will have changed in 20 years.

I suggest you look back 20 years and see how things have changed since then.

It’s clear you know nothing about it. On the other hand I do.

 

[Otis]

 

[skybluetony176]

How is the national grid going to produce the energy needed to charge millions of cars at once? Electric cars do nothing to solve reliance on fossil fuels.

I think that the idea is that you charge overnight when there’s an overcapacity in the National Grid. Power stations by their very nature don’t have on/off switches so they have to keep producing even when there’s no demand for energy.

 

[Otis]

I think that the idea is that you charge overnight when there’s an overcapacity in the National Grid. Power stations by their very nature don’t have on/off switches so they have to keep producing even when there’s no demand for energy.

With Graphene tech they reckon you will be able to charge a phone in 10 seconds.

2040 is a long way away.

 

[skybluetony176]

With Graphene tech they reckon you will be able to charge a phone in 10 seconds.

2040 is a long way away.

Graphene is amazing and definitely the future. It will undoubtedly improve battery technology once it’s been perfected.

This new battery can be fully charged in just five minutes

 

[Grendel]

In the end we are walking into a situation where car ownership in this country for future generations will become a luxury afforded by the few and not the many

 

[Grendel]

Graphene is amazing and definitely the future. It will undoubtedly improve battery technology once it’s been perfected.

This new battery can be fully charged in just five minutes

Charging time is low down on the issues and that article is a very optimistic view compared to reality when you are actually designing and engineering a product that will sell.

 

[Otis]

In the end we are walking into a situation where car ownership in this country for future generations will become a luxury afforded by the few and not the many

You might well be right.

Could well be public transport is the way forwards.


Studies have already been done to show that traffic could grind to a halt in 20 years due to the volume of vehicles that could well be on the road.

 

[wingy]

In the end we are walking into a situation where car ownership in this country for future generations will become a luxury afforded by the few and not the many

Although I don't think anything should be the preserve of a privileged few
It may well be preferable to go that route
Where can the employment be directed to in place of motor production?

 

[skybluetony176]

Charging time is low down on the issues and that article is a very optimistic view compared to reality when you are actually designing and engineering a product that will sell.

Charge time is everything. The problem with a battery based on current technology is it isn’t 100% efficient on recharge so you have to put in not only the energy that you’ve taken out you have to put in more than you’ve taken out to overcome its inefficiencies. When a material as conductive as graphing comes along the inefficiencies are diminished. That means shorter recharge times making the battery more practical. It also means less hydrogen is made as a by product of the charging inefficiencies is hydrogen and hydrogen is explosive, meaning safer charging. One of the issues with lithium is that as well as hydrogen it also produces oxygen when burning which is why when a Tesla catches fire it burns and burns and burns. Something else graphene might overcome. That’s before you even get into weight saving etc.

The only thing that might fight of the rise of the graphene battery in electric cars will be if someone masters the hydrogen powered car. Even then there could well be a market for graphene batteries. You would be surprised how many applications use batteries and you wouldn’t even know they’re there.

 

[Grendel]

Charge time is everything. The problem with a battery based on current technology is it isn’t 100% efficient on recharge so you have to put in not only the energy that you’ve taken out you have to put in more than you’ve taken out to overcome its inefficiencies. When a material as conductive as graphing comes along the inefficiencies are diminished. That means shorter recharge times making the battery more practical. It also means less hydrogen is made as a by product of the charging inefficiencies is hydrogen and hydrogen is explosive, meaning safer charging. One of the issues with lithium is that as well as hydrogen it also produces oxygen when burning which is why when a Tesla catches fire it burns and burns and burns. Something else graphene might overcome. That’s before you even get into weight saving etc.

The only thing that might fight of the rise of the graphene battery in electric cars will be if someone masters the hydrogen powered car. Even then there could well be a market for graphene batteries. You would be surprised how many applications use batteries and you wouldn’t even know they’re there.

Charge time isn’t everything and isn’t even top of the list in consumer research on their concerns. Also Tesla have attempted to use graphene in a prototype with less than positive consequences.

How many electric cars have you driven out of interest? I’ve driven two.

 

[Sick Boy]

In the end we are walking into a situation where car ownership in this country for future generations will become a luxury afforded by the few and not the many

Hard to disagree with that.

 

[skybluetony176]

Charge time isn’t everything and isn’t even top of the list in consumer research on their concerns. Also Tesla have attempted to use graphene in a prototype with less than positive consequences.

How many electric cars have you driven out of interest? I’ve driven two.

Graphene batteries are in their infancy. Graphene itself is in its infancy for that matter. Never said that they are perfected and ready for market, pretty much said the opposite actually.

How many electric cars have I driven? More than you as it turns out. Not sure why that’s important though.

 

[Sick Boy]

You might well be right.

Could well be public transport is the way forwards.


Studies have already been done to show that traffic could grind to a halt in 20 years due to the volume of vehicles that could well be on the road.

It's cheaper to drive than get public transport, can't see that changing long term either.

 

[Grendel]

Graphene batteries are in their infancy. Graphene itself is in its infancy for that matter. Never said that they are perfected and ready for market, pretty much said the opposite actually.

How many electric cars have I driven? More than you as it turns out. Not sure why that’s important though.

Which have you?

 

[Otis]

It's cheaper to drive than get public transport, can't see that changing long term either.

It is, but this study showed cars actually gridlocked and literally not moving at all!


Complete standstill.

 

[skybluetony176]

Which have you?

Again. Not sure why it’s important but I’ve driven an I3 a mate owned. Done a track day in an I8 as a Xmas present (thank you wifey) not strictly electric but hybrid. And a couple of years ago I assisted a battery manufacturer that we distribute for do a solar trade show at the NEC. Tesla were also exhibiting as they do a solar storage system but they also exhibited their model S and roadster, one of the benefits of being an exhibitor was you got a place on the road tests they were also doing at the show so I had a go in both. You’re point?

 

[Grendel]

Again. Not sure why it’s important but I’ve driven an I3 a mate owned. Done a track day in an I8 as a Xmas present (thank you wifey) not strictly electric but hybrid. And a couple of years ago I assisted a battery manufacturer that we distribute for do a solar trade show at the NEC. Tesla were also exhibiting as they do a solar storage system but they also exhibited their model S and roadster, one of the benefits of being an exhibitor was you got a place on the road tests they were also doing at the show so I had a go in both. You’re point?

Well it’s clearly havent under normal road conditions as I was interested in your principal concerns regarding them when you are driving on a motorway halfway through it’s battery life.

 

[wingy]

It's cheaper to drive than get public transport, can't see that changing long term either.

They will have to incentivise us to switch instead of rinsing us .
The current modus of matching it or worse to an individuals cost per mile will not cut it.
That outrage has to end and economies of scale applied rather than feathering the likes of Branson the philanthropists space tourism project for more privileged tourists.

 

[skybluetony176]

Well it’s clearly havent under normal road conditions as I was interested in your principal concerns regarding them when you are driving on a motorway halfway through it’s battery life.

Similar to driving a traditional car driving halfway through a tank of petrol. Which again is why battery efficiency and recharge time is important. If you can recharge your car in five minutes it improves product confidence. Graphene also has the ability to increase energy density. Graphene is amazingly strong even when one molecule thick. This means that you can manufacture a cell of higher capacity in an identical case to other technologies as you can make the positive and negative plates so thin you can fit many many more in the same physical space and greatly increase the working surface of the plates within a cell, giving you more capacity. This means that you can either use the same space as the current lithium technology but greatly increase capacity giving you the flexibility of greater range or longer periods between recharge. The other possibility is that you can make the battery so compact that as Otis has suggested you can remove it from your car and charge it in your home, workspace etc. Remember when mobile phones were a briefcase and battery life was shit? That technology was compacted and improved based on technology that’s was already discovered, lithium batteries have been around since the 70’s. We now have a completely new technology with infinitely more possibilities and more motivation to develop it to the max than we had with lithium batteries until the mobile phone revolution happened. We’ll make the gains with graphene far quicker than we did with lithium for the simple reason that we need it now so the development is already commercially viable. A scenario lithium wasn’t in until it was a 20 to 30 year old technology.

 

[Grendel]

Similar to driving a traditional car driving halfway through a tank of petrol. Which again is why battery efficiency and recharge time is important. If you can recharge your car in five minutes it improves product confidence. Graphene also has the ability to increase energy density. Graphene is amazingly strong even when one molecule thick. This means that you can manufacture a cell of higher capacity in an identical case to other technologies as you can make the positive and negative plates so thin you can fit many many more in the same physical space and greatly increase the working surface of the plates within a cell, giving you more capacity. This means that you can either use the same space as the current lithium technology but greatly increase capacity giving you the flexibility of greater range or longer periods between recharge. The other possibility is that you can make the battery so compact that as Otis has suggested you can remove it from your car and charge it in your home, workspace etc. Remember when mobile phones were a briefcase and battery life was shit? That technology was compacted and improved based on technology that’s was already discovered, lithium batteries have been around since the 70’s. We now have a completely new technology with infinitely more possibilities and more motivation to develop it to the max than we had with lithium batteries until the mobile phone revolution happened. We’ll make the gains with graphene far quicker than we did with lithium for the simple reason that we need it now so the development is already commercially viable. A scenario lithium wasn’t in until it was a 20 to 30 year old technology.

Do you work in an EV project for a motor manufacturer and have seen futuring analysis Tony?

Also again you are obsessed with hypothetical technology advancement and ignoring infrastructure

 

[skybluetony176]

Do you work in an EV project for a motor manufacturer and have seen futuring analysis Tony?

Also again you are obsessed with hypothetical technology advancement and ignoring infrastructure

I work in an industry that is heavily reliant on batteries and battery technology. You seem to be fixated on an idea that the motor industry is the only industry that has a interest in batteries and future development. You couldn’t be further from the truth. Have you ever been to a building that needs critical power back up such as a data centre, power station or hospital? I have many times. Some of the battery rooms are immense. Quite often the complete basement so the entire footprint of the building. You’ll have rows upon rows of either lead acid or nickel cadmium batteries all connected in series and parallel to give them both the nominal voltage and capacity to support the buildings load until back up generators kick in. Then in the corner you’ll have 3 or four cabinets that are about 600 x 600 x 1800H that is the UPS or the brains. It costs a huge amount of money to build these facilities for the hardware and the software is a cabinet or two or three depending on the requirements. The industry is crying out for a compact, safe, reliable solution to replace this that can be mounted in n a cabinet something more akin to the size of an industrial UPS that will fit in a room not an entire basement. The need for the development of graphene and graphene batteries goes well beyond electric vehicles and mobile phones too for that matter.

When a product is stronger than steel, more conductive than copper and can be manufactured one molecule thick it’s a gift to any company involved in the development and manufacturing of batteries as it’s benefits are a gain for any industry reliant on battery technology.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

They will have to incentivise us to switch instead of rinsing us .
The current modus of matching it or worse to an individuals cost per mile will not cut it.
That outrage has to end and economies of scale applied rather than feathering the likes of Branson the philanthropists space tourism project for more privileged tourists.

I'd be quite happy to get public transport if they made it practical. Despite moving inside the city's boundaries, not one bus near me goes direct to the train station.

 

[Otis]

Coventry named sixth best UK city for a night out - yes really

6th, just behind Nottingham.

 

[martcov]

I work in an industry that is heavily reliant on batteries and battery technology. You seem to be fixated on an idea that the motor industry is the only industry that has a interest in batteries and future development. You couldn’t be further from the truth. Have you ever been to a building that needs critical power back up such as a data centre, power station or hospital? I have many times. Some of the battery rooms are immense. Quite often the complete basement so the entire footprint of the building. You’ll have rows upon rows of either lead acid or nickel cadmium batteries all connected in series and parallel to give them both the nominal voltage and capacity to support the buildings load until back up generators kick in. Then in the corner you’ll have 3 or four cabinets that are about 600 x 600 x 1800H that is the UPS or the brains. It costs a huge amount of money to build these facilities for the hardware and the software is a cabinet or two or three depending on the requirements. The industry is crying out for a compact, safe, reliable solution to replace this that can be mounted in n a cabinet something more akin to the size of an industrial UPS that will fit in a room not an entire basement. The need for the development of graphene and graphene batteries goes well beyond electric vehicles and mobile phones too for that matter.

When a product is stronger than steel, more conductive than copper and can be manufactured one molecule thick it’s a gift to any company involved in the development and manufacturing of batteries as it’s benefits are a gain for any industry reliant on battery technology.

They are going to test electric lorries powered by overhead cables on the autobahn here near me as from 2019. My small business cannot exist without vehicles. I don’t have the option of taking the bus

 

[clint van damme]

Coventry named sixth best UK city for a night out - yes really

6th, just behind Nottingham.

as a proud Coventrian I have to say that is absolute bollocks!
There is a lot to like about Cov, it's nightlife isn't one I'm afraid.
OK for an old fucker like me who's happy to stumble around the pubs of Earlsdon and Chapelfields until 9 at night until it's time to go home but for younger people there are many many better places.

Leeds and Brighton not in there FFS!!

And how Swansea is top is beyond me. Have only been once and had a great weekend again, there are many better.