That's it. No one is claiming Thorn has not contributed at all to our downward spiral. He is a rookie manager, in his first post, he has made mistakes. As I say, I don't think these crop up as often as stated by some, but that is by the by. I hold SISU responsible for our current plight. I think experienced pros should be doing more to help out the kids. I think we have a weak squad within the League. I think Thorn will have achieved a miracle if we stay in the division. I was never naive enough to expect his tenure to be perfect in his first ever job under such stretched circumstances. But I remember the toss we used to watch under Boothroyd and the fact he came in and immediately changed things for the better. I remember having a chat with ROD about the difference in the camp and the opinion of the lads about Thorny (I think it is wildly too simplistic to talk about his man management skills as regards Eastwood - which manager did get the best out of him, do you know his BMI or attitude, etc.). Things have not gone well and there are some disputable decisions, but I remember plenty of those under Dowie, Coleman and Boothroyd. Thorn has had the least to play with of a list of our ever growing list of hired and fired managers (we have had far too many managers in my lifetime), and probably the least to play with in the Championship. I think he deviates from the diamond on occasion, but, as all the players are congregated in roughly the same area of the park, it bypasses the acknowledgment of some fans (who are, as we all do, seeing things how they see it). I think that for every iffy substitution, there is at least one I would agree with, probably more. You say he needs to earn his crust and that he is not doing so and should be sacked. Ok, SISU, who else would earn a comparable crust and improve our current plight, given the playing staff and finances available..? (I know it is the argument of a gobshite, but isn't it the only relevant argument here?)