Wasps current finances & hope (2 Viewers)

Forums New posts
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
9,697
7,608
313
Coventry
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2016
6,956
7,089
263
oldskyblue58 said:
took a look at the wasps forum. I disagree with some of the thoughts on there - dont disagree with the wish that they had never turned up and bought in. However they have.

It is the rugby side of the operation that makes the biggest loss. The evidence is in the accounts which state the holding company made a profit of £6.2m however the exceptional profits £16.8m relates to the rugby side alone. So the real annual result of the rugby operation is a £10.6m loss. That leaves a loss for the rest of the business at £2.6m and the way i read it is much of that is to do with closing the Compass contract down and taking on Delaware. Ignore the depreciation (it isnt money spent), and reduce staff levels, increase the ACL income and the non rugby side would at least break even. How you get the rugby club to run profitably i have no idea but it isnt the stadium pulling the group down

Crowds are a factor of the team success, wasps have not been very successful of late

To my mind ACL is over staffed and there are savings to be made there - apparently already being done. Under the previous ownership turnover was higher and staff numbers and costs much lower. However ACL is not responsible for staffing the Casino, and it is Delaware North that staffs the stadium & hotel recharging costs to wasps through IEC

To sell the stadium and move may at first sight seem a good idea. The proceeds would be applied to the bond debt £35m first. However the sale value is unlikely to be the £51m for the lease because part of the lease value is based on wasps being there (rugby club have a 50 year lease) - if they are not going to be there no one would pay full value stated in the financials. If they dont clear the bond then they would in effect be bust, there would be no funds for a ground near the Stoop. The move would be costly, to buy a freehold or long lease would be more expensive the nearer to London you are, but there are the hidden costs of relocating staff and players etc let alone the obvious ones of building a smaller "rugby arena". Who is going to pay for that?

Moving might also mean actually paying out a rent. At the moment any rent charge stays within the group because its paid to ACL. Move to someone elses ground it wouldnt

Cant comment on player savings, not really interested.

Selling up and moving out doesnt solve their problem

Often companies do sell their main asset however to lease it back. Could this be an option? Gets full value on the long lease, clears the bond, maybe other debts too, could contribute to training ground ? Might mean a cost for access to other incomes though and the rent paid to 3rd party not internally. Does mean that wasps stay at the ricoh though
Click to expand...
Isn’t that why the council wouldn’t sell to SISU and assured us wasps wouldn’t do it?
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2014
18,865
9,248
313
Nuneaton
So not only do they steal our ground they have started stealing the work that Osb does for us on here. You should send them an invoice for the work done Osb
 
  • Like
Reactions: duffer and oldskyblue58
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Feb 25, 2008
137,783
56,624
1,063
Coventry
Many London and Bucks supporters remained loyal because the homegrown players stuck with the club. It was still the same players and the same team just playing in a different stadium. But as those players have left the bonds of loyalty and interest have weakened. Watching Gloucester v Wasps last weekend I actually wanted Gloucester to win. Or more accurately Simpson and Cipriani. Very strange. The 2015-18 was a fun and very entertaining side whilst it lasted. Sadly that team has now gone.
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
  • Like
Reactions: ccfchoi87 and fernandopartridge
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
36,107
37,496
313
oldskyblue58 said:
took a look at the wasps forum. I disagree with some of the thoughts on there - dont disagree with the wish that they had never turned up and bought in. However they have.

It is the rugby side of the operation that makes the biggest loss. The evidence is in the accounts which state the holding company made a profit of £6.2m however the exceptional profits £16.8m relates to the rugby side alone. So the real annual result of the rugby operation is a £10.6m loss. That leaves a loss for the rest of the business at £2.6m and the way i read it is much of that is to do with closing the Compass contract down and taking on Delaware. Ignore the depreciation (it isnt money spent), and reduce staff levels, increase the ACL income and the non rugby side would at least break even. How you get the rugby club to run profitably i have no idea but it isnt the stadium pulling the group down

Crowds are a factor of the team success, wasps have not been very successful of late

To my mind ACL is over staffed and there are savings to be made there - apparently already being done. Under the previous ownership turnover was higher and staff numbers and costs much lower. However ACL is not responsible for staffing the Casino, and it is Delaware North that staffs the stadium & hotel recharging costs to wasps through IEC

To sell the stadium and move may at first sight seem a good idea. The proceeds would be applied to the bond debt £35m first. However the sale value is unlikely to be the £51m for the lease because part of the lease value is based on wasps being there (rugby club have a 50 year lease) - if they are not going to be there no one would pay full value stated in the financials. If they dont clear the bond then they would in effect be bust, there would be no funds for a ground near the Stoop. The move would be costly, to buy a freehold or long lease would be more expensive the nearer to London you are, but there are the hidden costs of relocating staff and players etc let alone the obvious ones of building a smaller "rugby arena". Who is going to pay for that?

Moving might also mean actually paying out a rent. At the moment any rent charge stays within the group because its paid to ACL. Move to someone elses ground it wouldnt

Cant comment on player savings, not really interested.

Selling up and moving out doesnt solve their problem

Often companies do sell their main asset however to lease it back. Could this be an option? Gets full value on the long lease, clears the bond, maybe other debts too, could contribute to training ground ? Might mean a cost for access to other incomes though and the rent paid to 3rd party not internally. Does mean that wasps stay at the ricoh though
Click to expand...
Indeed, I thought the same that despite the previous poor results there is no evidence at all of them taking a grip on costs
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldskyblue58
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
36,107
37,496
313
It is funny to see what's happening. They're morphing into CCFC with the same statements being made. Ultimately though the stadium is not the issue like OSB says, Rugby Football has followed Association Football down the same financially unsustainable path with clowns like Richardson (B & D) driving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: oldskyblue58
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
36,107
37,496
313
No. Wasps' real problems started when the professional side was split from Wasps FC and the professional side lost control of their real estate in the mid 1990s. Before being asset stripped by Loftus Road plc. Unlike clubs which retained control of the primary asset. Leicester, Gloucester, Quins, Northampton etc. Exeter sold their old ground to buy a new one. Wasps RFC has been an economic basket case ever since it become divorced from its real estate inheritance from the amateur era.×
Click to expand...
Sounds familiar
 
  • Like
Reactions: CanadianCCFC
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Apr 16, 2010
9,697
7,608
313
Coventry
fernandopartridge said:
Indeed, I thought the same that despite the previous poor results there is no evidence at all of them taking a grip on costs
Click to expand...

indeed, cant work out if that is pure bad management, sheer arrogance or a mixture of the two. Probably the latter but they have been massively over spending since they got here, and compared to other clubs they regularly make the biggest losses.
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2014
18,865
9,248
313
Nuneaton
fernandopartridge said:
It is funny to see what's happening. They're morphing into CCFC with the same statements being made. Ultimately though the stadium is not the issue like OSB says, Rugby Football has followed Association Football down the same financially unsustainable path with clowns like Richardson (B & D) driving.
Click to expand...


They have brought the team to the wrong city as well the paying fans really aren’t interested, they came in and gave tickets away which means people looked at it and thought it costs nothing so it’s not bad now they have to pay they still see the original value of zero and think it’s quite expensive now.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Feb 25, 2008
137,783
56,624
1,063
Coventry
Terry Gibson's perm said:
They have brought the team to the wrong city as well the paying fans really aren’t interested, they came in and gave tickets away which means people looked at it and thought it costs nothing so it’s not bad now they have to pay they still see the original value of zero and think it’s quite expensive now.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's the thing. They set the tone hammering the free tickets, everybody I knew who jumped on the freebies wouldn't pay for tickets if they had to and only went because it was free and they could have a beer in the sun at their seat.

They won't hand £20 over to go and watch as they don't see it as worth it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
Oct 23, 2016
2,550
2,184
163
fernandopartridge said:
Indeed, I thought the same that despite the previous poor results there is no evidence at all of them taking a grip on costs
Click to expand...

My personal take and many I speak with are saying the same thing that the move to Coventry isn't working out as planned. No ones going to pay to watch them unless they get a freebie even if there doing well.

So where does that leave them with nearly everything going against them and going to get worse? I can’t believe they haven’t thought about an exit strategy as I would be at this moment as there future existence is approaching them fast.

SISU are cunning here and waiting till Wasps go pop or cry for CCFC to come back so will be interesting how this pans out.
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
Oct 23, 2016
2,550
2,184
163
chiefdave said:
Only the Telegraph could find a way to make such appalling accounts a positive.
Click to expand...
Hence why I asked are the telegraph or sports reporters getting free tickets or season tickets to give wasps such an easy time with such awful accounts.
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2014
18,865
9,248
313
Nuneaton
That is a rather large amount of interest Richardson charges on his loans.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
32,861
23,351
413
Coventry
CCFC54321 said:
What tripe. What’s a training base got to do with profitability? If anything it’s a further drain on resources.
Click to expand...
How dense do you have to be to see a club go from the promise of a brand new state of the art facility, to a full redevelopment of Higgs, to a joint project with Old Leamingtonians to moving into an existing college facility and view it as a positive?!
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Mar 17, 2014
18,865
9,248
313
Nuneaton
With the price of that horrible kit I hope he has declared it as a gift to the taxman.

He is the stereotypical rugger bugger, beard unkept look a look that seems to be ok for Male or female there
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2011
36,107
37,496
313
The Drunken Wasps lot are realistic and pessimistic. If you go on their Once a Wasp forum (inhabited by the Johnny come lately types) they all think it's great. CCFC legal costs at £1m being blamed by one clown
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2008
32,861
23,351
413
Coventry
fernandopartridge said:
The Drunken Wasps lot are realistic and pessimistic. If you go on their Once a Wasp forum (inhabited by the Johnny come lately types) they all think it's great. CCFC legal costs at £1m being blamed by one clown
Click to expand...
At least they've sorted the pitch out
every game huge squares of it lift up like carpet tiles in an office, and somebody runs on, drags it back in to place and jumps up and down on it.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: ccfchoi87
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Top Bottom