Now THAT, IS a clear and obvious error.
Now THAT, IS a clear and obvious error.
This makes me feel sick, in real time it's on, someone thats on his laptop 150 miles away cancels it off, ref, lino, 4th official all gave it, feel like not bothering with an ST next year if that's the way it's going
Would anyone look at that footage yesterday in the VAR booth and say immediately "Well, that's an clear and obvious error?" No is that answer. Because no-one actually could.
They had to analyse it and go looking for it in depth and if they had to go looking for it, it's not a clear and obvious error is it.
I think the real flaw is that it's been decided that every incident has to be micro analysed within an inch of its life, where at times, common sense should be applied.
Nothing is perfect and mistakes will still get made, but it WOULD be better.
Had that goal been given yesterday no-one would have complained. Even the Man U fans thought it was a goal.
Oh and just for clarification, I am not coming from a position of bitterness or injustice. When it happened yesterday, I believed it was a goal, then they said they were doing a VAR check and I felt it might not be given. When it was confirmed, I just felt sad. I didn't feel anger, or bitterness. I wasn't outraged. I just felt it really sad that it had come down to a line drawn on a screen, that still wasn't totally clear.
I have no chip on my shoulder about it and don't think we should appeal. I think we should write to the FA and tell them we believe it was a mistake.
I wasn't going to mention the offside to be honest, I was so proud of my team, but I then felt I had to defend VAR, because I am pretty certain this is not what it was intended for. If it was, they wouldn't have put in the caveat of "clear and obvious errors".
No-one in the ground yesterday believed there was a clear and obvious error
VAR needs rethinking though, not scrapping. VAR is very often right. It will be absolute carnage if they go back to the old ways, with every manager screaming even more blue murder.
Pretty much every other sport uses technology doesn't it? Cricket, rugby, American Football, racing etc.
We just need to use it properly.
Anyway, that's my tenpence worth and I am going to move on. I want to focus on the team.
Yesterday, I wasn't upset or annoyed, I was just proud of my team.
Anyway, I am done.
On to Wednesday and the rest of the season and the next season to come.
They had to analyse it and go looking for it in depth and if they had to go looking for it, it's not a clear and obvious error is it.
I think the real flaw is that it's been decided that every incident has to be micro analysed within an inch of its life, where at times, common sense should be applied.
Nothing is perfect and mistakes will still get made, but it WOULD be better.
Had that goal been given yesterday no-one would have complained. Even the Man U fans thought it was a goal.
Oh and just for clarification, I am not coming from a position of bitterness or injustice. When it happened yesterday, I believed it was a goal, then they said they were doing a VAR check and I felt it might not be given. When it was confirmed, I just felt sad. I didn't feel anger, or bitterness. I wasn't outraged. I just felt it really sad that it had come down to a line drawn on a screen, that still wasn't totally clear.
I have no chip on my shoulder about it and don't think we should appeal. I think we should write to the FA and tell them we believe it was a mistake.
I wasn't going to mention the offside to be honest, I was so proud of my team, but I then felt I had to defend VAR, because I am pretty certain this is not what it was intended for. If it was, they wouldn't have put in the caveat of "clear and obvious errors".
No-one in the ground yesterday believed there was a clear and obvious error
VAR needs rethinking though, not scrapping. VAR is very often right. It will be absolute carnage if they go back to the old ways, with every manager screaming even more blue murder.
Pretty much every other sport uses technology doesn't it? Cricket, rugby, American Football, racing etc.
We just need to use it properly.
Anyway, that's my tenpence worth and I am going to move on. I want to focus on the team.
Yesterday, I wasn't upset or annoyed, I was just proud of my team.
Anyway, I am done.
On to Wednesday and the rest of the season and the next season to come.
People are forgetting what it was like before. There were huge amounts of injustices and mistakes, players getting away with blatant cheating, and in this age of technology the only people in the whole world who didn’t know a decision was wrong were the officials and players on the pitch. And it wasn’t uncommon for wild celebrations to turn to despair after lengthy conversations between refs and linesmen.
But VAR as implemented is a shitshow, and the way we were robbed yesterday is unacceptable. As I see it, there are three main issues.
1) Spurious accuracy on offsides – especially given the judgement call on when the ball is played. Easily solved by making the lines much fatter. Any overlap and it’s onside (advantage to the attacker), and if you’re offside when you’ve had the leeway of fat lines, you really can’t complain.
2) Slow decision making. If they believe a decision is actually wrong (not if they think it may be wrong) the video guys should be made to flash it up on the screen within 10 seconds, and either overturn the onfield decision or get the ref to look. Any longer than that, it’s not clear and obvious so the ref’s decision stands and can’t be overturned.
3) Sheer incompetence. I cannot believe how many decisions they get wrong from an objective standpoint – like the penalty denied to Forest last night which was definitively a foul. And the line drawn over the player’s foot yesterday is the worst example ever. Surely it’s a provable technical error that the FA have to acknowledge and apologise for? Cold comfort I know.
But VAR as implemented is a shitshow, and the way we were robbed yesterday is unacceptable. As I see it, there are three main issues.
1) Spurious accuracy on offsides – especially given the judgement call on when the ball is played. Easily solved by making the lines much fatter. Any overlap and it’s onside (advantage to the attacker), and if you’re offside when you’ve had the leeway of fat lines, you really can’t complain.
2) Slow decision making. If they believe a decision is actually wrong (not if they think it may be wrong) the video guys should be made to flash it up on the screen within 10 seconds, and either overturn the onfield decision or get the ref to look. Any longer than that, it’s not clear and obvious so the ref’s decision stands and can’t be overturned.
3) Sheer incompetence. I cannot believe how many decisions they get wrong from an objective standpoint – like the penalty denied to Forest last night which was definitively a foul. And the line drawn over the player’s foot yesterday is the worst example ever. Surely it’s a provable technical error that the FA have to acknowledge and apologise for? Cold comfort I know.
How do they decide how long they look into things? Sometimes they spent half a second checking, sometimes 5 minutes. Sometimes they will look back in the lead up for anything they can find to disallow it, sometimes they don't.
Why didn't the ref get to have a look back again?
I reckon Onana waving his hands about would have played on their mind a bit as well.
Why didn't the ref get to have a look back again?
I reckon Onana waving his hands about would have played on their mind a bit as well.
That's what I said, allowing some geek 200 miles away on a computer to cancel it, ref, lino, 4th official saw nothing wrong, against Wolves it took ages why so quick with this
That's what I said, allowing some geek 200 miles away on a computer to cancel it, ref, lino, 4th official saw nothing wrong, against Wolves it took ages why so quick with this
Probably because sometimes they try so hard to rule things out and others they don't.
They used a frame that wasn't when it actually left O'Hares foot.
I'd love it if Doug took it further, not to change the result but to change the rules of VAR
He was massively off and I called it in the thread .. lino not flagging incase its a goal and they can review , obviously a corner is a different phase and deemed not fit to go back to look .. the way we use VAR Is flawed
VAR = match fixing. It's that simple .
The FA cup final will be a huge turn off now. Many neutrals won't watch it .
The exit of Coventry City spells the end of the FA cup this season .
The FA cup final will be a huge turn off now. Many neutrals won't watch it .
The exit of Coventry City spells the end of the FA cup this season .
I think that's how they always do it (moment of striking the ball rather than when it's left the foot). That normally favours the attacker because they are the ones running faster towards goal, but in this case it favoured the United defender.
The issue yesterday was drawing the line in the wrong place.
Same in NHL ice hockey. To overrule a call on the ice the video review has to show conclusive evidence.
Exactly the opposite is true in cricket - the umpire leaves it totally to technology
Doesn’t really suit their narrative though… Keane was wallowing in how far ‘his’ club had fallen.
Imagine the coverage and fixation on VAR had it been Saturday’s game or Man U scored the goal?
Trying not to be tin foil hat man btw, it was convenient timing to bring out the measuring sticks and magnifying glasses.
Release the audio and show us how that decision came to be made.
Cricket has umpires call because there are decisions that are too close to decide with the limitations of the technology so they don't overrule the decision on the field.
I want to hear the audio and see the line drawing process.
But ultimately these are the same arguments we’d be having with not VAR and have been having all season (Southampton handballs anyone?), except it seems the VAR calls piss the average fan off far more as they’re supposed to be more accurate but they get just as much wrong.
Bin the whole thing off and go back to the on field refs with at most a fourth official watching for anything blatantly obvious or where the ref wants to view a replay.
But ultimately these are the same arguments we’d be having with not VAR and have been having all season (Southampton handballs anyone?), except it seems the VAR calls piss the average fan off far more as they’re supposed to be more accurate but they get just as much wrong.
Bin the whole thing off and go back to the on field refs with at most a fourth official watching for anything blatantly obvious or where the ref wants to view a replay.
Name the last time an umpire gave a run out or stumping without referring to the third umpire
If its used for goals over the line, bad fouls or ridiculous offsides then yes use var, o radio 2 earlier it was discussed calling it VaR light
I think I agree with this but unfortunately it’s not going anywhere now, especially with the amount of money involved in the game.
Which ties in to what I said, that desicion goes the other way against united and the scrutiny level is ramped up 10 notches, I can't help but think it plays into the decision making, even if sub consciously.
It’s hard not to believe it’s corrupt at this point but we’d not have got the penalty if that was the case.
To be fair though, a lot of posts on here are dedicated to unjust decisions from the refs.
They hand over responsibility to the third umpire even when it’s obviously in.
In other words they opt out in case they are wrong, no assistant is ever making a decision that tight when someone does it for them
It’s seen as part of the game though. You call the ref shit and move on. It’s the illusion of infallibility that’s the issue.
