Lucy Letby (4 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Definitely a Cluster B personality disorder at play. She was said to be infatuated with a much older male doctor and was harming babies to get closer to him

The doctor gave evidence against her at trial but has anonymity

It sounds like she was a strangely mollycoddled child herself, I mean her Dad turned up at her disciplinary FFS. The Countess Trust completely lost the plot here and the senior accountable people should all be removed from post. It's a huge failure of safeguarding.

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[fernandopartridge]

Definitely a Cluster B personality disorder at play. She was said to be infatuated with a much older male doctor and was harming babies to get closer to him

The doctor gave evidence against her at trial but has anonymity

It sounds like she was a strangely mollycoddled child herself, I mean her Dad turned up at her disciplinary FFS. The Countess Trust completely lost the plot here and the senior accountable people should all be removed from post. It's a huge failure of safeguarding.

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[jimmyhillsfanclub]

fernando "2 times" partridge.....

 

[fernandopartridge]

fernando "2 times" partridge.....

Hey de fuckin WiFi in this joint whaddayaknow

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[Hertsccfc]

Strangely enough I don’t see the Wild West of El Salvador as especially relevant

Your response to Pete suggested to me, maybe incorrectly, that you don't support the sort of liberal approaches successful adopted in Norway and that you feel a more repressive/punitive approach can be more successful. El Salvador is an extreme example of this which in terms of crime reduction has been a outstandingly successful. It has gone from having the highest homicide rate in the world to becoming a relatively safe country in a short period and by far the safest in the region. As a result the President is genuinely one of the world's most popular leaders.

This has been achieved through a highly punitive approach and at the expense of peoples' human rights. Many people have been imprisoned just on suspicion of being involved in criminality, especially the drug trade.

For the avoidance of doubt I don't support such an approach but it is an interesting example. Most people in El Salvador say they are content to have lost their rights and not overly concerned that innocent people are incarcerated as they now feel safe going about their daily lives.

Of course, the sort of things Norway are doing are right in my view but it is easy to understand why the El Salvador approach has popular support at least in their context.

 

[Grendel]

Your response to Pete suggested to me, maybe incorrectly, that you don't support the sort of liberal approaches successful adopted in Norway and that you feel a more repressive/punitive approach can be more successful. El Salvador is an extreme example of this which in terms of crime reduction has been a outstandingly successful. It has gone from having the highest homicide rate in the world to becoming a relatively safe country in a short period and by far the safest in the region. As a result the President is genuinely one of the world's most popular leaders.

This has been achieved through a highly punitive approach and at the expense of peoples' human rights. Many people have been imprisoned just on suspicion of being involved in criminality, especially the drug trade.

For the avoidance of doubt I don't support such an approach but it is an interesting example. Most people in El Salvador say they are content to have lost their rights and not overly concerned that innocent people are incarcerated as they now feel safe going about their daily lives.

Of course, the sort of things Norway are doing are right in my view but it is easy to understand why the El Salvador approach has popular support at least in their context.

My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The answer is to stop imprisoning people for relatively petty crimes not to release very dangerous people

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One answer yep

 

[clint van damme]

My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?

I'd wager if you removed the death penalty in Japan you wouldn't see an increase in homicides.

The states in the US that execute the most people generally have higher murder rates.

And there are other Asian countries with no death penalty that also have very low homicide rates, (though I think Japan's is the lowest in the world).

I think culture plays a massive part.

 

[oakey]

All she has left is her secret. Why she did it. She can maintain power over others if they seek answers from her.
So, isolate her with no privileges. Make it clear she can only receive privileges if she comes clean.
Once every six months she is allowed to speak to psychiatrists/detectives to tell all. That's it. If she misses her chance by messing about or playing games straight back in isolation for 6 months.
The only thing she has to offer society is the truth.
We can wait. She can stew.

 

[skybluecam]

All she has left is her secret. Why she did it. She can maintain power over others if they seek answers from her.
So, isolate her with no privileges. Make it clear she can only receive privileges if she comes clean.
Once every six months she is allowed to speak to psychiatrists/detectives to tell all. That's it. If she misses her chance by messing about or playing games straight back in isolation for 6 months.
The only thing she has to offer society is the truth.
We can wait. She can stew.

6 months of complete isolation would reduce the human brain to mush

 

[clint van damme]

6 months of complete isolation would reduce the human brain to mush

This place can do it in a fortnight.

 

[Hertsccfc]

My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?

The death penalty working brilliantly in stopping killings in the US of course.

 

[Hertsccfc]

This place can do it in a fortnight.

An afternoon

 

[Grendel]

The death penalty working brilliantly in stopping killings in the US of course.

No one says it is or it’s actually a deterrent at all

 

[Hertsccfc]

No one says it is or it’s actually a deterrent at all

Well you literally just linked it with the low homicide rate in Japan.

 

[rob9872]

Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.

 

[clint van damme]

Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.

In the states it costs more to execute someone than imprison them for life.

 

[Grendel]

Well you literally just linked it with the low homicide rate in Japan.

Well yes as you seemed to imply Norway is a successful indicator - the truth is you can’t correlate can you. Singapore is about the safest place on earth

 

[Sick Boy]

Well yes as you seemed to imply Norway is a successful indicator - the truth is you can’t correlate can you. Singapore is about the safest place on earth

Before going there I was told by a local to assume there’s an undercover police within view most of the time.

 

[rob9872]

In the states it costs more to execute someone than imprison them for life.

I've just been reading about that. Apparently down to higher legal costs when arguing for the DP and more expensive to house them whilst on death Row (average time 20 years!). It's not so much the cost of the execution as what goes before it. Much easier / cheaper to let other inmates know they're a nonce and turn your back whilst justice is served.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

.

Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs/summary-of-states-death-penalty

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Just wanted to say thanks to most of you for ensuring that I don’t live in an echo chamber and however hard some of the opinions on here are hard for me to hear and understand they are the opinions of fellow human beings who are part of our society

 

[hamertime]

My reference point actually was Japan which does have the death penalty and a very low rate of homocide

Also other countries in the Scandi area are having significant escalation of issues are they not?

That’s cause half the young male Japanese population are hermits holed up watching a
Computer screen barley able to muster a hard on.

 

[Robinshio]

Before going there I was told by a local to assume there’s an undercover police within view most of the time.

Experienced the same in China

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I was recently watching the C4 documentary where Guy Martin did a trip round Japan, and he says the culture is to obey the law, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Fucking weird place though!

 

[shmmeee]

It won’t be old age that kills her in prison, that’s for sure. Given what happens to nonces, someone who murdered 7 babies and tried to kill countless more will surely not last long.

Women’s prison a bit different though. Fewer lifers with nothing to lose and violent inmates in general.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Women’s prison a bit different though. Fewer lifers with nothing to lose and violent inmates in general.

Awful places full of many victims of crime and life circumstances. Awful self harm and repeating cycles of behaviour with no way out
Not this particular woman of course

 

[shmmeee]

Not so much as a deterrent but the resources wasted on someone like Letby who we could inject an overdose for a fiver is plain to see. Especially if you can see where the saving is directly going, eg in this case to put those additional funds into preventing infant mortality and I doubt you'd have too many against it.

It’s not though. You end up with way more protracted legal cases costing way more than prison. I mean if the alternative is literally death, why would you ever stop appealing with everything you’ve got? And if you did and accepted your death what punishment is that?

It’s blood lust and nothing else. I’ve said in this thread I hope prison dishes out its own justice. But you wouldn’t really want to codify vigilante justice into law (if that even makes sense) and we all know why. There’s no other argument that doesn’t boil down to wanting vengeance. It’s not a deterrent, it doesn’t cost less, it’s virtually impossible to do humanely.

 

[shmmeee]

Awful places full of many victims of crime and life circumstances. Awful self harm and repeating cycles of behaviour with no way out
Not this particular woman of course

Certaibly not somewhere I’d wish on anyone! Just saying the situation for this particular type of revenge is a bit different.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Women’s prison a bit different though. Fewer lifers with nothing to lose and violent inmates in general.

I was thinking suicide.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

I was thinking suicide.

I had this same thought, but given the post-it notes and seemingly deranged behaviours outside of the murders, it was like she was threatening it regularly but never followed through with it. Suggests to me she's too much of a coward to even take that way out.

- Just for the record I'm not saying that failing to commit suicide is cowardly. I think she's got some serious mental disorders that will cross over with NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). Those people will play victim until the cows come home but when there is any serious threat to them, they'll back down. Suicide included.

 

[Robinshio]

I was recently watching the C4 documentary where Guy Martin did a trip round Japan, and he says the culture is to obey the law, and has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Fucking weird place though!

A large proportion of men see prostitutes regularly, very 1960s attitude to women - and they are obsessed with cartoons

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

A large proportion of men see prostitutes regularly, very 1960s attitude to women - and they are obsessed with cartoons

Isn't there a larger proportion of men to women, so not all men would be able to find a monogamous partner even if they all wanted to?

Pretty sure that's the case in China due to the one baby rule, but felt sure it was a similar situation in Japan.

It is very patriarchal still. Until relatively recently families would adopt bright young boys just so they could carry on the 'family' business.

 

[SBT]

Wow - The New Yorker has published a 13,000 word article questioning the conviction, placing the case alongside previous examples of miscarriages of justice in the medical profession. The article isn’t available online in the UK for legal reasons, but is viewable elsewhere.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Wow - The New Yorker has published a 13,000 word article questioning the conviction, placing the case alongside previous examples of miscarriages of justice in the medical profession. The article isn’t available online in the UK for legal reasons, but is viewable elsewhere.

Wouldn’t be surprised
Any link?