messiahrobins
Well-Known Member
I am posting facts.
Israel - Palestinian Conflict (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter napolimp
- Start date
messiahrobins
Well-Known Member
Why would the West want this war to continue? The terrorism threat in the US UK France is now at its most severe since 2001. If Israel cant win the war quickly then the West needs to do it for them surely?
messiahrobins
Well-Known Member
No what if Isreal don't want them to, sorry for the confusion.
They were from the Pentagon.
In fairness, those numbers themselves have been disputed, but even if they were exaggerated by a huge margin I don’t see how it changes the moral calculus.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
You're clearly a very angry, bitter individual who carries a lot of hate .
If Hamas decide never to surrender we could, ultimately, see the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. I'm sure you'd see that as simply a consequence of war but ultimately it will end in hatred towards Israel on a scale none of us can imagine .
I've always had sympathy with Israel after what happened 1939-45 but much of that sympathy has been wiped away by this. I'm sure I'm not alone.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I think most people accept what Israel are doing is wrong, I certainly think they have taken it too far, but I'm getting a feeling more and more like there is a lot of sympathy for Hamas. - That isn't just on here, in the real world too.
It's possible to dislike both of them right? That's certainly my stand point, but I'm not really seeing that going on and feel increasingly like the only side people seem to be denouncing is Israel (the odd troll aside). Say something bad about Palestine or Hamas and it ends up in arguments. Why is that? Closet sympathy with Hamas coming out? Secret hatred for Israel given an excuse? Or just seen enough of the retaliation to think it's gone too far and the festival attacks are more or less irrelevant in comparison now?
Very curious to see what people think. Hopefully this post isn't shot down.
It's possible to dislike both of them right? That's certainly my stand point, but I'm not really seeing that going on and feel increasingly like the only side people seem to be denouncing is Israel (the odd troll aside). Say something bad about Palestine or Hamas and it ends up in arguments. Why is that? Closet sympathy with Hamas coming out? Secret hatred for Israel given an excuse? Or just seen enough of the retaliation to think it's gone too far and the festival attacks are more or less irrelevant in comparison now?
Very curious to see what people think. Hopefully this post isn't shot down.
messiahrobins
Well-Known Member
nick Griffin agrees with you...let that sink in.
Do i hate Hamas? Yes? Am i angry at Hamas? Yes? Do i want their complete destruction? Yes.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
What you care about is revenge and by the sound of it the deaths of thousands more innocent people is of absolutely no consequence. What you don't seem to care about are the consequences for Israel. Yes. You're too angry to have thought it through just like the Israeli leadership . Yes.
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Sky News isn’t left-wing ffs.
Could you point to two or three of these posts on here that express sympathy for Hamas?
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Of course it’s possible to not like both; I don’t think anyone on here has ever expressed support for Hamas.
BBC isn't either.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
Will that happen? No. So why do Israel continue with indiscriminate attacks?
Of course it's impossible. The more Israel bombs and continues to disregard the lives of Palestinian civilians the stronger Hamas and its successor organisations will become. Unfortunately the Israeli population will be paying for this folly for generations.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The problem with the I’d like to see Hamas eradicate while supporting Israel’s destruction of Gaza killing tens of thousands of people in the process is that it’s a complete oxymoron. Hamas is now starting to gain strength of support in the West Bank as a direct result of Israel’s destruction of Gaza and its people. Also I saw a young man who had lost his parents, wife and children to Israel, why wouldn’t he now be willing to take revenge on Israel by joining Hamas and picking up a gun? There’s more than enough evidence that Israel’s actions in Gaza are a recruiting tool for Hamas. If you really want to eradicate Hamas Israel needs to withdraw from Gaza immediately and the international community needs to push for the two party state to allow Gaza and the West Bank to be Palestine. Let people have some hope, people living in hope don’t tend to go to the extremes like Hamas.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I dislike both. I feel sorry for both the Palestinian and Israeli people caught up in this.
I think the perceived sympathy for Hamas is more Palestinian sympathy in that if they don't take any actions then more and more settlements get built. You are getting pushed out of your land and no-one seems to be listening. In that situation people get desperate and you end up with the atrocities of Hamas, which ultimately only makes things worse.
They're damned whatever they do.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
The whole theme of this thread is that of a one sided nature, and it feels very much like there's way more hatred on here for Israel. Would you agree? I'm not saying it is wrong or right, I have also called out Israel, but let's not go down a bunker of denying it because it is extremely obvious.
The calling out of Hamas is very, very minimal. I'm my opinion it looks like they have quite a lot of sympathy from people on here (and in the outside world).
If I were to log on here as a newbie and read through this thread, I would say most people are clearly on the side of Palestine. I am just curious why that is. If you don't have any insight into this then that's fine.
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
The more Israel destroys Gaza and slaughters innocent lives, the more it creates hatred and extremism: the very thing it is trying to destroy. A never ending vicious circle .
I don’t agree that “sympathy for Hamas” is “obvious” on here, although you’re not the first to make that claim. If there are clear examples of that, then share them.
I’d say the reaction on this thread could be broadly comparable to criticism of the Iraq War - a purported counter-terrorist operation that too often became a state-sponsored massacre of civilians, all of it justified by the international community because of a heinous terrorist attack. I don’t think many people critical of the Iraq War were obvious sympathisers with Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath Party, nor did they see 9/11 as “irrelevant” or harbour “secret hatred” of America.
I also think the controversial actions of our allies - especially those actions which are backed by our own government - are naturally better fodder for debate and criticism than those of obviously bad actors like terrorists or criminals who never claim to be anything other than our enemies.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Look at the links I posted earlier, Netanyahu enabled Hamas to keep Palestine divided.
He said as much at Likud conference in 2015/2016 (I think, may have been later).
He did so to keep Palestine divided and Hamas and the Palestinian Authority at each others throats, (and Hammas reacted with typical brutality).
Its now come back to badly bite him on the arse to the tune of 1400 innocent people murdered so he knows he's toast once the dust settles.
As for people getting pushed out of their land, that goes on unabated in the West Bank where hundreds have been killed since Oct 7th despite not been under Hamas's jurisdiction.
I would love to see 2 state solution with a united Palestine and Hanmas and Netanyahus far right government removed from the equation.
Unfortunately my dream of seeing City win the champions league is probably more realistic.
One more point I'd like to reiterate, a 2 state solution was in touching distance, before Hammas even existed, zionists assisnated an Israeli president to make sure it didn't happen.
messiahrobins
Well-Known Member
Where is the proof the attacks are indiscriminate? The say, and i believe them, Hamas use innocent civilians as human shields. You cant just not go after the enemy if they take human shields as that just sends a signal to all terrorists to do the same.
Also, IF Netanyahu is truly guilty of war crimes, then so is Biden, Sunak and Macron as they provide arms to Israel. I have noticed Trump is silent on the dispute, so it will be interesting to see the reaction if Trump goes down that route and says Biden was complicit in the alleged genocide that many on the left like to peddle Israel is committing.
messiahrobins
Well-Known Member
Damn right i want revenge, and Israel wont give a fuck about hurting left wing feelings, ,and lets be honest the outrage is almost exclusively from left wing politicians and their supporters because Netayahnu is right wing.
Hamas are to blame. Hamas also have links with the Nazis as well going back to ww2. Innocent people dying is awful, but in war that is unavoidable.
The elephant in the room is Donald Trump. He has been totally silent on this war and he looks almost certain to be President. One would think he would support Israel but his silence is deafening, and if HE is not impressed with Israel and stops the US military bankrolling of Israel, then yes i do agree, the consequences for Israel will be disastrous. Russia supports Hamas so without the US, Israel is toast, so i am mindful of your points and take them on board.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
So Hamas, an organisation that didn't exist until the 1980's, had links to the Nazi's in WWII?
Why would Hamas have even been around anyway considering Israel wasn't even a consideration until post WWII because of the Holocaust.
Jamesimus
Well-Known Member
Not even going to rise to this one. Just going to leave it on here quoted.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
WHO confirming today what we all knew already. Children are starving to death in Gaza.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Genuine question here.
While I'm sure all right minded human beings deplore the mass killing of innocent people wherever they may be, and whoever they are,
What I don't understand is why fellow neighbouring Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Turkey don't open their borders and allow those who have been displaced to be temporarily relocated to avoid the bloodshed.
(Like we and other countries did for the Ukranians)
I'm genuinely perplexed.
While I'm sure all right minded human beings deplore the mass killing of innocent people wherever they may be, and whoever they are,
What I don't understand is why fellow neighbouring Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Turkey don't open their borders and allow those who have been displaced to be temporarily relocated to avoid the bloodshed.
(Like we and other countries did for the Ukranians)
I'm genuinely perplexed.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
As opposed to what? The international community demands that Israel stops? There’s also the small issue that if all the Palestinians leave Gaza crossing the border into Egypt that will leave Gaza empty and Israel free to settle Gaza. If you were being sceptical you wouldn’t be blamed for thinking that was Israel’s plan all along.
How much are the assets of Gaza worth?
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think it’s more about land than anything. Let’s face it Gaza is a bombed out wreck. It has an airport and a limited amount of farmland, it would be all about real estate. Which is why Palestinians can’t leave, metaphorically they’re all fighting for their land regardless of if they support Hamas or pick up a weapon. Ordinary Palestinians understand that if they all leave Gaza they’re never coming back.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I think it's safe to say that Israel isn't going to listen to the International community.
And what is worse, worying that an empty Gaza might become occupied by Israel, or standing by and doing nothing while innocents are massacred?
How fucked up is that?
And if you want to play clever politics, if Israel where to move in and ocupy an empty Gaza, then it no longer becomes about crushing Hamas, and becomes purely a land grab, which would be seen as a war crime by the international community.
