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COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Well-Known Member
Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon said:
How can he say SISU don't care about the supporters? Joy wrote us a lovely letter telling us how 'overcome with emotion' she was at Wembley. So unfair.
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Joy "Overcome with emotion "

That's because at the end of the game some Wembley official taped her on the shoulder and said as she's not a director of the football club she would have to pay for her seat.
 
itsabuzzard

itsabuzzard

Well-Known Member
Good article, though the dame holding up the banner needs to work on her apostrophes.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Some of us have been saying for years that we're the club and the club will still be here when sisu have long gone. If we ever cget good again and end up in the Prem you can just buy me a pint.
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
I think what baffles me the most about SISU is that despite all of the disparaging PR they receive year on year in the national press, parliament and on social media, they genuinely seem to not care less.
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
They've had excellent PR the past few years... from their POV
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In what universe have they had 'excellent' PR? Believe me whilst they're regularly in the media it's certainly not a good thing. The slogan: "There's no such thing as bad publicity" is a myth and is completely outdated in today's climate. There are plenty of companies who have never recovered from a PR disaster, never mind a never-ending one. How SISU don't take it more seriously is beyond the realms of logic IMO.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
JamesCCFC said:
In what universe have they had 'excellent' PR? Believe me whilst they're regularly in the media it's certainly not a good thing. The slogan: "There's no such thing as bad publicity" is a myth and is completely outdated in today's climate. There are plenty of companies who have never recovered from a PR disaster, never mind a never-ending one. How SISU don't take it more seriously is beyond the realms of logic IMO.
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He is talking about from the SISU "relentless investor" point of view. Not CCFC's point of view.
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
He is talking about from the SISU "relentless investor" point of view. Not CCFC's point of view.
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I still don't understand how it's excellent PR. Albeit hedge funds essentially operate on risk, which is what attracts their investors. So I suppose in theory what you're saying is correct, but considering it's very difficult to measure PR in numbers there's no discernible way to discover whether that's fact or fiction.

Apparently SISU do fairly well with their other investments so this unfortunately will only appear as a minor blotch on their portfolio but regardless the worst thing you can do is stay quiet whilst under fire from the media regardless of the situation.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
JamesCCFC said:
I still don't understand how it's excellent PR. Albeit hedge funds essentially operate on risk, which is what attracts their investors. So I suppose in theory what you're saying is correct, but considering it's very difficult to measure PR in numbers there's no discernible way to discover whether that's fact or fiction.

Apparently SISU do fairly well with their other investments so this unfortunately will only appear as a minor blotch on their portfolio but regardless the worst thing you can do is stay quiet whilst under fire from the media regardless of the situation.
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It shows them as ruthless that they would have the bottle to destroy a football club if it meant getting what they wanted. If I was giving money to somebody to invest, I'd want somebody like that.

No idea if they are good at investing or not though, thats just what he meant by it.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
JamesCCFC said:
I still don't understand how it's excellent PR. Albeit hedge funds essentially operate on risk, which is what attracts their investors. So I suppose in theory what you're saying is correct, but considering it's very difficult to measure PR in numbers there's no discernible way to discover whether that's fact or fiction.

Apparently SISU do fairly well with their other investments so this unfortunately will only appear as a minor blotch on their portfolio but regardless the worst thing you can do is stay quiet whilst under fire from the media regardless of the situation.
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Their whole image is based on not budging, on negotiating a deal by not moving from their position and playing hardball. Were they to move from their position, it would hurt them elsewhere. If you're the type of investor who chooses SISU, you'd recognise far more fully the company you chose to invest with recently, than before. Ever since Seppala took a more active interest they've been far more the type of firm people have chosen to invest in, rather than the one that spunked cash away, and had no sense of cost control.

(Even on the purely financial level, they've divested themselves of a number of liabilities and driven costs down. Far better that than the profligate mess that was there before... but that's an aside really.)
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
It shows them as ruthless that they would have the bottle to destroy a football club if it meant getting what they wanted. If I was giving money to somebody to invest, I'd want somebody like that.

No idea if they are good at investing or not though, thats just what he meant by it.
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I understood what was meant I just wouldn't label it as 'excellent' PR. It shows that they have bottle, I won't deny that. But the stories that appear constantly bang on the same drum: "Misinformed, mismanaged, poor investment" etc etc etc. So whilst the PR might suggest they have serious balls, it also highlights their incompetence in relation to their investment in the asset discussed (CCFC).

Great it shows that they are ruthless, but every hedge fund is ruthless otherwise they wouldn't be in the business that they are in. Investors don't throw money at a situation and hope for the best, it's a calculated decision that takes months, perhaps years in some special cases to execute. Despite this a hedge fund is still always going to have its failed investments as like i said they essentially operate on risk. But to have a poor investment so heavily highlighted in the media and the backlash that has plagued them from high ranking officials in all walks of life cannot be construed as 'excellent' in my POV. Like you said you don't know if they are good at investing or not - how does their negative media coverage qualify as excellent PR when no one even knows if they are good at what they do?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Again
JamesCCFC said:
I understood what was meant I just wouldn't label it as 'excellent' PR. It shows that they have bottle, I won't deny that. But the stories that appear constantly bang on the same drum: "Misinformed, mismanaged, poor investment" etc etc etc. So whilst the PR might suggest they have serious balls, it also highlights their incompetence in relation to their investment in the asset discussed (CCFC).

Great it shows that they are ruthless, but every hedge fund is ruthless otherwise they wouldn't be in the business that they are in. Investors don't throw money at a situation and hope for the best, it's a calculated decision that takes months, perhaps years in some special cases to execute. Despite this a hedge fund is still always going to have its failed investments as like i said they essentially operate on risk. But to have a poor investment so heavily highlighted in the media and the backlash that has plagued them from high ranking officials in all walks of life cannot be construed as 'excellent' in my POV. Like you said you don't know if they are good at investing or not - how does their negative media coverage qualify as excellent PR when no one even knows if they are good at what they do?
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Yes but again your are assuming that they are judged on how the football club is run. I doubt an investor who wants to make a quid or two even knows where its going. If they do tgw majority won't care.

The same as when you see pensions going into the weapons trade.

It's not judging them as sisu who run a football club it's sisu the investors who make people money.

That's not be saying they are great at that either.
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
AgainYes but again your are assuming that they are judged on how the football club is run. I doubt an investor who wants to make a quid or two even knows where its going. If they do tgw majority won't care.

The same as when you see pensions going into the weapons trade.

It's not judging them as sisu who run a football club it's sisu the investors who make people money.

That's not be saying they are great at that either.
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I'm more getting at that their asset (CCFC) has been an absolute shitstorm for SISU's investors and yet it's only asset that seems to get coverage in the media. For instance if you compare SISU to London and European hedge fund Brevan Howard, the latter is regularly shouting about new investments/assets that he's either picked up or looking to enter into. Do a quick Google search of SISU on the other hand and the only thing that appears is failed legal action and investors losing millions over a failing and debilitating asset.

Exactly my point though, SISU the investors in this case haven't made people money, the polar opposite in fact - and this is what's being shouted about.
 
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S

SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
Their whole image is based on not budging, on negotiating a deal by not moving from their position and playing hardball. Were they to move from their position, it would hurt them elsewhere. If you're the type of investor who chooses SISU, you'd recognise far more fully the company you chose to invest with recently, than before. Ever since Seppala took a more active interest they've been far more the type of firm people have chosen to invest in, rather than the one that spunked cash away, and had no sense of cost control.

(Even on the purely financial level, they've divested themselves of a number of liabilities and driven costs down. Far better that than the profligate mess that was there before... but that's an aside really.)
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I understand the principle of what you're saying but as I've discussed with Nick, to claim that SISU have received excellent PR is overstated. They've had excellent publicity but they haven't had excellent PR whatsoever. Publicity concerns a entity's presence in the media but PR focuses on building relationships and managing an image.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
NorthernWisdom said:
Their whole image is based on not budging, on negotiating a deal by not moving from their position and playing hardball. Were they to move from their position, it would hurt them elsewhere. If you're the type of investor who chooses SISU, you'd recognise far more fully the company you chose to invest with recently, than before. Ever since Seppala took a more active interest they've been far more the type of firm people have chosen to invest in, rather than the one that spunked cash away, and had no sense of cost control.

(Even on the purely financial level, they've divested themselves of a number of liabilities and driven costs down. Far better that than the profligate mess that was there before... but that's an aside really.)
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I’m not so sure. For starters the whole “we batter people in court” line has took a battering and the fact that they’ve took said battering surely calls into question their ability on choosing their battles. I’d think that the whole JR process and their very public showings in the court rooms over the past few years is of immense embarrassment to them if anything. Instead of demonstrating sisu they have demonstrated tyhmyys. Hoping google translate is accurate ;)
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
skybluetony176 said:
I’m not so sure. For starters the whole “we batter people in court” line has took a battering and the fact that they’ve took said battering surely calls into question their ability on choosing their battles. I’d think that the whole JR process and their very public showings in the court rooms over the past few years is of immense embarrassment to them if anything. Instead of demonstrating sisu they have demonstrated tyhmyys. Hoping google translate is accurate ;)
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Unless they heavily invest in legal firms ;)
In which case their other investments will be doing well
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
Unless they heavily invest in legal firms ;)
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I think that investment has been unintentional. They probably only ever expected to invest in their own legal firms and get a return. They didn’t. I doubt that they weren’t banking on investing in the councils legal firm either. They did. They’ve clearly had their bluff called and the result can surely only be embarrassing for them. Hardly good PR.
 
NorthernWisdom

NorthernWisdom

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
I’m not so sure. For starters the whole “we batter people in court” line has took a battering and the fact that they’ve took said battering surely calls into question their ability on choosing their battles. I’d think that the whole JR process and their very public showings in the court rooms over the past few years is of immense embarrassment to them if anything. Instead of demonstrating sisu they have demonstrated tyhmyys. Hoping google translate is accurate ;)
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They have battered people in court. Make a deal... or get tied up for years.
 
Covstu

Covstu

Well-Known Member
It’s a good but depressing read, they have driven away many fans which may never come back to ‘usual’ league games unless it’s a big tie.

They did not bet on the stubbornness of AH and CCC which has cost them equally they didn’t understand football and it’s politics. Funds (within reason) have been available to MR finally which I am unsure his predecessors didn’t get but for a club it’s still way too late, we should have never got down to league two but we are where we are. I will never stop supporting them and will be here after these bastards but that will not be in the next 10 years I reckon
 
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