24/25 changes? (2 Viewers)

[Hertsccfc]

I don't necessarily disagree but it is very dependent on whether the right offer is in the table and I'm not sure I see anyone offering what we'd want for him. He's not flashy like Vik and Gus and the market might well be dead this summer. What do we think we could get for him? If it's less than £5m it's probably not worth it.

I really like Sheaf and have always rated him but some of the estimations of his value are way off in my view. It's by no means clear that he could regularly make an impact in the Premier League.

It's possible, even likely, a PL team will take a punt on him but not at an inflated fee.

 

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[biggymania]

At some point you have to go for it though. Next summer I wouldn't be surprised to see Simms, Milan, Wright etc leave if we don't get promoted.

And they will all go for larger fees than we paid for them, and we will aim to reinvest all of that wisely. We will go for it when the model has given us a squad ready for promotion.

Do I need to say model again?

 

[The watchmaker]

I really like Sheaf and have always rated him but some of the estimations of his value are way off in my view. It's by no means clear that he could regularly make an impact in the Premier League.

I'd like to think he could (and will with us) but he is looking top end championship/bottom end prem. Does he fancy a move to Sheffied?

The prem club's you could rely on spaffing money away like Forest are now under restrictions so you are looking at maybe wolves/Fulham/idk? Are they entering a bidding war over a 26 year old championship midfielder. I'm no expert, I just can't see us being offered what we feel he is worth.

 

[The watchmaker]

Interestingly I looked him up on transfermarkt (I know, I know) and it has him at €3.8m. Feels like a lot of those values need updating after the season gone but was surprised to see Eccles being worth more at €6m.

 

[Matt smith]

That is exactly what everyone was saying about Hamer and I am sure Robins & Doug felt that and discussed it too. The reality is, we don't have the budget to throw away a selling opportunity that can level up the rest of the squad. We would use the money to sign maybe 3-5 other really high quality talents on 4+ year deals who will also make us a profit. That is the model. This is the way.

100% agree, I love sheaf think he’s great but if vik doesn’t go we sell this window to have the opportunity to invest another 12/15 on 4 players of real quality

 

[skybluecam]

And they will all go for larger fees than we paid for them, and we will aim to reinvest all of that wisely. We will go for it when the model has given us a squad ready for promotion.

Do I need to say model again?

This is a squad ready for promotion.

Sell Wright/Simms/Milan and we're back to the square one of last summer.

 

[Matt smith]

I don't necessarily disagree but it is very dependent on whether the right offer is in the table and I'm not sure I see anyone offering what we'd want for him. He's not flashy like Vik and Gus and the market might well be dead this summer. What do we think we could get for him? If it's less than £5m it's probably not worth it.

We won’t let him go for anything under 10 imo

 

[biggymania]

This is a squad ready for promotion.

Sell Wright/Simms/Milan and we're back to the square one of last summer.

Respectfully disagree - we're not even in the playoffs with this squad. The squad needs strength and depth which can only be funded by player sales & increasing revenue under current ownership*.

* I would also add that's exactly how I believe it should be and I definitely don't want an owner that spaffs cash and saddles us with more debt.

 

[skybluecam]

Respectfully disagree - we're not even in the playoffs with this squad. The squad needs strength and depth which can only be funded by player sales & increasing revenue under current ownership*.

* I would also add that's exactly how I believe it should be and I definitely don't want an owner that spaffs cash and saddles us with more debt.

Our best 11 is ready (as proved with the run of form when they were all fit).

With EMC coming in we're maybe one starter and 3-4 depth options away from what should be a solid top 6 squad. It shouldn't take more than £5m in transfer spending to get those players in. Sell Sheaf and that's out the window because we have to replace our most important player.

 

[samccov1987]

Can't see us not spending big on an O'Hare replacement. Then really need a RW, ST and CB just to ensure we don't fade away like this season.

The Kyprianou rumours are interesting is he the Sheaf replacement or brought in as squad cover with Kelly going?

I'd say minimum of five at least to come in and that's before any shock outgoings.

Most would be coming is a squad cover/challenge the starting 11.

 

[biggymania]

Our best 11 is ready (as proved with the run of form when they were all fit).

With EMC coming in we're maybe one starter and 3-4 depth options away from what should be a solid top 6 squad. It shouldn't take more than £5m in transfer spending to get those players in. Sell Sheaf and that's out the window because we have to replace our most important player.

We've been quite fortuitous with injuries so I'd argue the quality & depth needs another season of iteration. I don't know that we will fund that without player sales. Not sure I agree 5M is all that is needed. I would guess about 20M - and a Sheaf sale could go some way to closing the gap.

Totally accept that might mean another season of building - but I'd suggest that progress every year is what is important. Progress next year would be to be solidly in the playoffs - not just clipping in at the last like 22/23 or as we may have done this year, cup run aside.

 

[Sick Boy]

Can't see us not spending big on an O'Hare replacement. Then really need a RW, ST and CB just to ensure we don't fade away like this season.

The Kyprianou rumours are interesting is he the Sheaf replacement or brought in as squad cover with Kelly going?

I'd say minimum of five at least to come in and that's before any shock outgoings.

Most would be coming is a squad cover/challenge the starting 11.

Amazed we’d be looking to spend big on him when he’s deemed as back up by a fair few on here these days.

 

[Boicey]

Our best 11 is ready (as proved with the run of form when they were all fit).

With EMC coming in we're maybe one starter and 3-4 depth options away from what should be a solid top 6 squad. It shouldn't take more than £5m in transfer spending to get those players in. Sell Sheaf and that's out the window because we have to replace our most important player.

That doesn’t make any sense. We’ve had a poor run in with most of the first 11 fit. We’ve leaked goals all over the place with an unimpressive defence and midfield have been uninspiring.
There’s quite a lot of work to do.

 

[Samo]

If Godden, Binks, O'hare and Kelly leave and there are no surprise departures, we need 4 in just to get us back to the number we are on now, which is widely accepted as being too few.
So, at least 3 more in to make us competitive; RB, CM, RW I would say.
That's 7 to come in, 8 if we are looking for a new keeper.
Obviously some of these are going to be potential rather than nailed on starters

 

[Deity]

If you believe that Hamer was worth £15m then you have to believe that Sheaf is of a similar value.

whilst Hamer gets goals which creates a premium I think Sheaf is a better professional with a higher ceiling.

I wouldn’t accept less than £12m for Sheaf.

Leicester want £40m for KDH. Different player but not 4 x better than Sheaf.

 

[skybluecam]

That doesn’t make any sense. We’ve had a poor run in with most of the first 11 fit. We’ve leaked goals all over the place with an unimpressive defence and midfield have been uninspiring.
There’s quite a lot of work to do.

Sakamoto's injury has cost us big time because we have no backup, so Milan gets dragged up there and suddenly we're two players down on our best 11. Wright doesn't have any backup either and has looked leggy at times.

Between the switch to 433 (Stoke, 11 Nov) and Sakamoto's injury (Preston, 23 Feb) our only losses were Ipswich away, Norwich away (red card) and Preston. We were in solid top 6 form. There isn't a lot of work to do.

 

[samccov1987]

Seeing as we like pinching other clubs foundations (ala Barnsley) How about Kyprianou, EMC (already signed) and Poku to cover RW.

Then Rudoni from Huddersfield if they go down.

 

[TomRad85]

Seeing as we like pinching other clubs foundations (ala Barnsley) How about Kyprianou, EMC (already signed) and Poku to cover RW.

Then Rudoni from Huddersfield if they go down.

Yes to all of those.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[biggymania]

Sakamoto's injury has cost us big time because we have no backup, so Milan gets dragged up there and suddenly we're two players down on our best 11. Wright doesn't have any backup either and has looked leggy at times.

Between the switch to 433 (Stoke, 11 Nov) and Sakamoto's injury (Preston, 23 Feb) our only losses were Ipswich away, Norwich away (red card) and Preston. We were in solid top 6 form. There isn't a lot of work to do.

And you think those problems can be solved in 5M. Those players alone combined cost us what, 12M?

I think you agree the squad isn't good enough to win over a season, but you're underestimating the likely cost and denying where that money has to come from. Unless you believe Doug could and should fund an enormous loss.

 

[skybluecam]

And you think those problems can be solved in 5M. Those players alone combined cost us what, 12M?

I think you agree the squad isn't good enough to win over a season, but you're underestimating the likely cost and denying where that money has to come from. Unless you believe Doug could and should fund an enormous loss.

Collins/Wilson
Milan/Burroughs
Thomas/Lati
Kitching/CB
Bidwell/Dasilva
Sheaf/CM
Eccles/Torp
CAM/Palmer
Wright/EMC
Simms/ST
Sakamoto/RW

CAM - 2-4m
CM - 1-2m
RW - 1-2m
ST & CB - Loans

I think that's a perfectly realistic squad and transfer window for us.

 

[The watchmaker]

We won’t let him go for anything under 10 imo

I honestly think we'd want similar money as we got for Hamer. Sheaf has put in good performances against prem teams. I just don't know that the market is there.

Of course that can all change if somebody else moves for big money and Sheaf is identified as his replacement.

 

[Boicey]

Sakamoto's injury has cost us big time because we have no backup, so Milan gets dragged up there and suddenly we're two players down on our best 11. Wright doesn't have any backup either and has looked leggy at times.

Between the switch to 433 (Stoke, 11 Nov) and Sakamoto's injury (Preston, 23 Feb) our only losses were Ipswich away, Norwich away (red card) and Preston. We were in solid top 6 form. There isn't a lot of work to do.

Sakamoto is a decent player but you really think he is that absolutely central to our overall performance? I mean MR didn’t even play him a reasonable chunk of the season.
The defence is nowhere near ready and midfield is plodding, even more so with COH gone. We will finish mid table.
4 new first 11 needed (GK, CB, CM and no 10). A lot to be done to be comfortable top 6.

 

[skybluecam]

Sakamoto is a decent player but you really think he is that absolutely central to our overall performance? I mean MR didn’t even play him a reasonable chunk of the season.
The defence is nowhere near ready and midfield is plodding, even more so with COH gone. We will finish mid table.
4 new first 11 needed (GK, CB, CM and no 10). A lot to be done to be comfortable top 6.

As I said, it's not Sakamoto himself it's the lack of replacement and what that does to the rest of the team.

Our defence is absolutely fine, we've conceded less than almost everyone around us bar West Brom.

We don't need a new starting CB or CM. And Collins, while not perfect, should not be a priority to replace.

 

[Boicey]

As I said, it's not Sakamoto himself it's the lack of replacement and what that does to the rest of the team.

Our defence is absolutely fine, we've conceded less than almost everyone around us bar West Brom.

We don't need a new starting CB or CM. And Collins, while not perfect, should not be a priority to replace.

‘Our defence is absolutely fine’.
‘a new GK should not be a priority’.
I’ll leave it there.
Pointless conversation.

 

[Offhegoes]

Palmer & Sakamoto, and possibly Torp can play that AM role. I'd bring in another wide player, and a ST to replace Godden.
CM to replace Kelly. RB / RWB, and 2 CBs

 

[skybluecam]

‘Our defence is absolutely fine’.
‘a new GK should not be a priority’.
I’ll leave it there.
Pointless conversation.

Take a look at the league table. 3/7 teams above us have conceded more. You are being swayed by recency bias from our tired end of season performances.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I guess measuring progress depends on what you feel is important.

On the one hand, we have how much have we followed the model and not been diverted from the long term project. On the other you have, have we improved our league position.

I am more in the second camp whilst accepting the model should be the general approach. However, there are real dangers of decline if we are not pragmatic.

If we keep selling players once they become good and replacing them with inexperienced prospects who will need time to develop it's difficult to see progress. In that case will we keep or grow our fanbase? I am not convinced.

I feel frustrated that we haven't maintained a play off push because we didn’t have a big enough squad because the model wouldn't allow it. A couple of seasons like this and the decline could become irreversible in my view.

It's a balancing act. On one hand, you're absolutely right that recycling the team every year is not going to be the most optimal way to get promoted. On the other, we still fund the next phase our team development. We may have our disagreements about where we need to improve, but we're in agreement that we need more to get to the next level as the last two seasons we've ran out of squad.

Take Ben Sheaf, for example. He is performing at a level comparable to Hamer last year, in their respective roles. He is at the top of his value right now because he has 2 years left on his contract, iirc expiry is 2026. The club needs to make a decision because if we don't think we can get promoted next season (officially the target is playoffs), then his value decreases this time next season. This season, we can sell on our terms, next season that dynamic could flip.

This summer, if we can get a deal like we did for Hamer or Vik, then selling Sheaf is probably the right decision. It will allow us to fill out our squad more with the quality we need to get to the promised land. The beauty of selling Hamer and Vik last season is that it set up the club with 5-6 players who should fetch £10-20+ million fees in the future.

That's how we stay on top in the transfer market.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

‘Our defence is absolutely fine’.
‘a new GK should not be a priority’.
I’ll leave it there.
Pointless conversation.

You talk about conceding goals as if defence isn't a team effort. Yes, there's been individual defensive errors and there's been times our midfield has been bypassed out wide and and down the middle and we've failed to defend from the front.

Take Man U as an example, we exposed them (and countless teams this season) because they leave massive gaps between midfield and defence so they concede lots of chances and goals.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

People go back to Peterborough to sign this one or that but I worry with this strategy as they tend to get top value for their players and if they are promoted might not want to sell.

I would be much happier seeing us hunting the Scandinavian market alongside the Dutch and Belgian markets as there may be better value there.

 

[Winny the Bish]

Dolan on a free would be perfect for the RW spot.

Then look abroad for the CAM as I don’t think there’s anyone in England at O’Hare’s level for a fee sub £5m.

Sebastian Nanasi has 3 goals, 3 assists in 5 games to start the season in Sweden. Won player of the season last year. Would be a big fee but he’s top class.

 

[Liquid Gold]

This is a squad ready for promotion.

Sell Wright/Simms/Milan and we're back to the square one of last summer.

This is how you end up doing a Derby/Reading instead of a Brentford/Brighton.

I'm sure Brentford fans were disappointed to see Watkins sold because they had a squad "ready for promotion" but they made a good profit, reinvested it in Toney and other top quality players and made the jump.

 

[skybluecam]

This is how you end up doing a Derby/Reading instead of a Brentford/Brighton.

I'm sure Brentford fans were disappointed to see Watkins sold because they had a squad "ready for promotion" but they made a good profit, reinvested it in Toney and other top quality players and made the jump.

Brentford got £30m for Watkins, I'd be driving Sheaf somewhere myself for that much.

 

[rexo87]

I do think Rudoni would be a good signing. Stats are pretty poor for Huddersfield but feel he would thrive in a good side. Can also play as an 8 so if we need to go for a flatter 3 in midfield he covers that option. Still very young as well. Should be less than 3 million if Hudds go down which is looking pretty likely

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This is a squad ready for promotion.

Sell Wright/Simms/Milan and we're back to the square one of last summer.

We’re not ready for promotion - we need a good 5-6 players to come in.

Yes there are mitigating factors, but our form against our competitors tells the story of this season. We haven’t had the quality to beat (or at least not lose) against the top half teams. Against the top half, we’ve got:
4 wins
5 draws
12 losses

21 games, one left to play against Ipswich. That just isn’t good enough.

 

[biggymania]

People go back to Peterborough to sign this one or that but I worry with this strategy as they tend to get top value for their players and if they are promoted might not want to sell.

I would be much happier seeing us hunting the Scandinavian market alongside the Dutch and Belgian markets as there may be better value there.

I think it's pretty clear our strategy is fairly even if you look at how many domestic players we've signed.

I'm sure as always we'll have a whole range of targets and depending on the availabilty and price we will go for whomever we can get that fits what we are looking for. And if we sell a valuable player, or receive a guarantee of a sell-on fee early in the window - we will have targets ready to suit that budget.