Palmer Suspension (6 Viewers)

Adge

Well-Known Member
The problem is the section of the rules you’ve shown doesn’t say running the length of the pitch is a lot different, it just says you can’t enter the pitch. It doesn’t seem like it’s something that should be down to discretion.
I would think that the pitch is “the playing area” hence entering “the playing area” (which Palmer entered and ran across without the Referees permission) which doesn’t apply if officials/substitutes run down the same side of the pitch to celebrate-ie they then haven’t entered “the playing area” without the Referees permission.
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
I would think that the pitch is “the playing area” hence entering “the playing area” (which Palmer entered and ran across without the Referees permission) which doesn’t apply if officials/substitutes run down the same side of the pitch to celebrate-ie they then haven’t entered “the playing area” without the Referees permission.
Agreed, but as has been pointed out players and managers frequently enter the playing part of the pitch during games and aren’t booked. Sometimes even during play!

Despite the fact Palmer ran across the pitch, as the ball wasn’t in play and there was no bad intent, for me it shouldn’t be a booking. If a referee can apply discretion for players only entering the edge of the pitch they should be able to do so for a last minute winner like on Saturday.
 

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Well-Known Member
If he hadn't have booked him then the ref would be getting a bollocking from his assessor. We can moan about the laws around it by all means but it's certainly not the ref's fault.


Okay, then the referee should get a bollocking for not giving a foul on O'HARE which nearly took his eye out.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Josh Eccles and Joel Latibeaudiere?

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Others have said that, but considering what Palmer has been through and the shit he has had to put up with of late, I do think it's wrong to compare. And besides, everyone is different.

That's why I said many would have done the same thing. Not all players, but many would. I wouldn't have blamed anyone, whoever it was.

Obviously meant so much to Palmer and I think that everything he has been through lately may well have had some bearing on things.

Just a sheer release of pure adrenaline and passion.
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Okay, then the referee should get a bollocking for not giving a foul on O'HARE which nearly took his eye out.
He will.

The VAR will likely be invited to give his thoughts too as it really should have been a red card. He will argue he only thought it worthy of a yellow but that's incorrect.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Others have said that, but considering what Palmer has been through and the shit he has had to put up with of late, I do think it's wrong to compare. And besides, everyone is different.

That's why I said many would have done the same thing. Not all players, but many would. I wouldn't have blamed anyone, whoever it was.

Obviously meant so much to Palmer and I think that everything he has been through lately may well have had some bearing on things.

Just a sheer release of pure adrenaline and passion.

He laughed about it on social media and said it was the best yellow card he ever had?
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
He will.

The VAR will likely be invited to give his thoughts too as it really should have been a red card. He will argue he only thought it worthy of a yellow but that's incorrect.
Do refs actually get a bollcking? I had a mate who officiated up to championship level and I’m sure he told me they get no grief just a report from the assessor and the assessor doesn’t even look back at video evidence. This was a few years back though, may have changed.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
A player who leaves the field of play to correct or change equipment must:
• have the equipment checked by a match official before being allowed to re-enter
• only re-enter with the referee’s permission (which may be given during play)
A player who enters without permission must be cautioned, and if play is stopped to issue the caution, an indirect free kick is awarded from the position of the ball when play was stopped, unless there was interference, in which case a direct free kick (or penalty kick) is awarded from the position of the interference.
Why would a law that applies to 'a player who leaves the field of play to correct or change equipment' apply in Palmers situation?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Why would a law that applies to 'a player who leaves the field of play to correct or change equipment' apply in Palmers situation?

I don’t know why you are carrying on with this when Palmer acknowledged it’s a booking and thought it was funny
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Lots of people really missing the point here! Palmer sprinted over from one side of the pitch to the other-he got carried away (like we all would have understandably) and it’s alot different from bench personnel/subs etc celebrating on the same side of the pitch,ie by running down the line to celebrate with the team(on the same side of the pitch).
Referee isn’t a fan like most of us with our Sky Blue tinted glasses on and must apply this sanction-it’s mandatory……..


A player who leaves the field of play to correct or change equipment must:
• have the equipment checked by a match official before being allowed to re-enter
• only re-enter with the referee’s permission (which may be given during play)
A player who enters without permission must be cautioned, and if play is stopped to issue the caution, an indirect free kick is awarded from the position of the ball when play was stopped, unless there was interference, in which case a direct free kick (or penalty kick) is awarded from the position of the interference.
But the laws you have posted say you are incorrect? There is nothing in them that says it is any different from the other players who entered the pitch on the same side as the dug outs? So if it is a mandatory sanction then why were the others not booked as well?
 

COVKIDSNEVERQUIT

Well-Known Member
But the laws you have posted say you are incorrect? There is nothing in them that says it is any different from the other players who entered the pitch on the same side as the dug outs? So if it is a mandatory sanction then why were the others not booked as well?


And when O'NEILL went onto the pitch with his tablet, which is coaching, which is not allowed.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
He laughed about it on social media and said it was the best yellow card he ever had?
He did.

That doesn't mean he knew it was going to be a yellow at the time/wasn't thinking straight though.

Caught up in the moment. Rushed on in jubilation. Found out then he had a yellow card and thought it worth it and joked about it.

Don't see anything wrong with that personally.

That was one of the most exciting games in recent memory. Wouldn't criticise anyone for going a bit batshit crazy.

Robins acted out of character too.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
He did.

That doesn't mean he knew it was going to be a yellow at the time/wasn't thinking straight though.

Caught up in the moment. Rushed on in jubilation. Found out then he had a yellow card and thought it worth it and joked about it.

Don't see anything wrong with that personally.

That was one of the most exciting games in recent memory. Wouldn't criticise anyone for going a bit batshit crazy.

Robins acted out of character too.

He didn’t realise that the yellow would ban him. He has acknowledged he committed a yellow card offence. Robins has apologised for his reaction
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
Do refs actually get a bollcking? I had a mate who officiated up to championship level and I’m sure he told me they get no grief just a report from the assessor and the assessor doesn’t even look back at video evidence. This was a few years back though, may have changed.
@Adge will know better than me about further down the pyramid, but certainly at PL level they are assessed after every game & also have an independent panel assessing VAR decisions.
 
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Otis

Well-Known Member
He didn’t realise that the yellow would ban him. He has acknowledged he committed a yellow card offence. Robins has apologised for his reaction
Yes, but a big difference though. Robins' incident was in front of a child. Celebrating in his face.

It's made the back page of papers.

Palmer was celebrating a goal with his teammates. Massive difference.

I can't and won't criticise Palmer for what he did.

And anyway, an awful lots of posters (you included) don't really want him in the team anyway


I also simply do not get the Lati/Eccles argument at all either

It's the same argument of Simms not celebrating enough when he scores compared to other players.

They are all individuals.

Palmer got carried away and I don't blame him one bit.

Most people seem to believe O'Hare is so much better and wanted him from the start on Saturday. So many don't think Palmer is good enough.

Looks now like it will be O'Hare for Man U. Surely that's a good thing isn't it? 🤪
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Yes, but a big difference though. Robins' incident was in front of a child. Celebrating in his face.

It's made the back page of papers.

Palmer was celebrating a goal with his teammates. Massive difference.

I can't and won't criticise Palmer for what he did.

And anyway, an awful lots of posters (you included) don't really want him in the team anyway


I also simply do not get the Lati/Eccles argument at all either

It's the same argument of Simms not celebrating enough when he scores compared to other players.

They are all individuals.

Palmer got carried away and I don't blame him one bit.

Most people seem to believe O'Hare is so much better and wanted him from the start in Saturday. So many don't think Palmer is good enough.

Looks now like it will be O'Hare for Man U. Surely that's a good thing isn't it? 🤪

It’s nothing to do with wanting him in the team or not. Would we be happy if an opponent had a yellow rescinded for no reason and allowed him to play? It’s silly.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
It’s nothing to do with wanting him in the team or not. Would we be happy if an opponent had a yellow rescinded for no reason and allowed him to play? It’s silly.
No, but I am not in that camp. I haven't asked for leniency on the yellow card.

Never argued that point.

Just saying I can't blame him for getting carried away and celebrating the winning goal like that.
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
Why would a law that applies to 'a player who leaves the field of play to correct or change equipment' apply in Palmers situation?
Read the bit in bold-nothing to do with equipment etc in Palmers case.
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
But the laws you have posted say you are incorrect? There is nothing in them that says it is any different from the other players who entered the pitch on the same side as the dug outs? So if it is a mandatory sanction then why were the others not booked as well?
Look, I don’t make the Laws etc-I’m just telling you why the sanction was carried out in this situation. You (and others) are trying to imply that any body (coaches/players etc) who steps 10mm over the touchline on their side of the pitch should be cautioned for “entering the field of play without the Referees permission”. Let’s not be silly and pretend that
“all we want is a bit of consistency” and by stepping a toe over the line is the same as running across the whole of the pitch to the other side as Kasey Palmer did.
 

Sizzler

Well-Known Member
I like KP, has deserved his starts over COH... but...

He broke a law, got caught, and now the rules are being applied, in no way is it different to Amad.

Most of us break laws, and some of us get caught, and if the rules are applied we have to take our punishment, and we can debate the law, debate the punishment but this nonsense about "one rule for them" and "it's so unfair" and "surely they can waive it for Coventry because we never get there" is just play ground nonsense. It's a harsh lesson, but that's why punishments are there.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Lots of people really missing the point here! Palmer sprinted over from one side of the pitch to the other-he got carried away (like we all would have understandably) and it’s alot different from bench personnel/subs etc celebrating on the same side of the pitch,ie by running down the line to celebrate with the team(on the same side of the pitch).
Referee isn’t a fan like most of us with our Sky Blue tinted glasses on and must apply this sanction-it’s mandatory……..


A player who leaves the field of play to correct or change equipment must:
• have the equipment checked by a match official before being allowed to re-enter
• only re-enter with the referee’s permission (which may be given during play)
A player who enters without permission must be cautioned, and if play is stopped to issue the caution, an indirect free kick is awarded from the position of the ball when play was stopped, unless there was interference, in which case a direct free kick (or penalty kick) is awarded from the position of the interference.

He didn’t leave the field to correct or change equipment?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I like KP, has deserved his starts over COH... but...

He broke a law, got caught, and now the rules are being applied, in no way is it different to Amad.

Most of us break laws, and some of us get caught, and if the rules are applied we have to take our punishment, and we can debate the law, debate the punishment but this nonsense about "one rule for them" and "it's so unfair" and "surely they can waive it for Coventry because we never get there" is just play ground nonsense. It's a harsh lesson, but that's why punishments are there.

Narc
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Look, I don’t make the Laws etc-I’m just telling you why the sanction was carried out in this situation. You (and others) are trying to imply that any body (coaches/players etc) who steps 10mm over the touchline on their side of the pitch should be cautioned for “entering the field of play without the Referees permission”. Let’s not be silly and pretend that
“all we want is a bit of consistency” and by stepping a toe over the line is the same as running across the whole of the pitch to the other side.
You don't make rules but you haven't also explained where in the laws as provided by you there is no difference in jumping 2ft on the pitch and 50ft. No one is talking about 10mm.

You are the one that said it is "mandatory" to sanction anyone who contravened the law as provided by you, are you now saying the referee is allowed a degree of subjectivity?
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
He didn’t leave the field to correct or change equipment?
Correct. He was a “Player who entered the field of play without the Referees permission” though so was cautioned.
 

Calista

Well-Known Member
He clearly wasn't thinking it through, but who would in that situation? I am sure so many would have done the exact same thing. Caught up in the moment. And what a moment it was.
😍
I can't really agree with you on this one. If you're not playing you can't run across the pitch during the match, which is surely obvious from schoolboy level upwards. KP has put himself out of this big game, which is sad for him and bad for the team.
 

djr8369

Well-Known Member
I can't really agree with you on this one. If you're not playing you can't run across the pitch during the match, which is surely obvious from schoolboy level upwards. KP has put himself out of this big game, which is sad for him and bad for the team.
Happens often after big games though?
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Correct. He was a “Player who entered the field of play without the Referees permission” though so was cautioned.
Can you tell me where if it is a mandatory sanction the laws state it is not a yellow card if they only transgress slightly?
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
You don't make rules but you haven't also explained where in the laws as provided by you there is no difference in jumping 2ft on the pitch and 50ft. No one is talking about 10mm.

You are the one that said it is "mandatory" to sanction anyone who contravened the law as provided by you, are you now saying the referee is allowed a degree of subjectivity?
Laws are provided by IFAB not by me-I’m just quoting the Laws that apply in that situation and you seem to think I have some magic wand to make them fairer-I don’t.
You might not like it/them and always seem to have a problem when I try to explain or interpret them and I’m sorry you don’t agree. It was unfortunately very unfair in Palmers situation on Saturday but the right call was made by the Referee-like it or not according to the Laws of the Game.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
I can't really agree with you on this one. If you're not playing you can't run across the pitch during the match, which is surely obvious from schoolboy level upwards. KP has put himself out of this big game, which is sad for him and bad for the team.
You have to have the context, Calista.

We were 2-1 down and the game seemed lost. We suddenly turned it around in the dying mins and beat a Premier League team and were heading for Wembley.

Massive, massive game and we all went absolutely nuts when Wright's goal went in I'm sure.

You have to apply the perspective and think about the moment in which it happened.

Palmer must have seen the goal, saw his teammates going mental and said I want a part of that.

Hotheaded, but I really don't think anyone can blame him.

It was instinctive, but what a game, what a comeback, what a result. Fabulous entertainment and incredibly exciting.

When you apply that context, I find it all but impossible to blame the bloke.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Laws are provided by IFAB not by me-I’m just quoting the Laws that apply in that situation and you seem to think I have some magic wand to make them fairer-I don’t.
You might not like it/them and always seem to have a problem when I try to explain or interpret them and I’m sorry you don’t agree. It was unfortunately very unfair in Palmers situation on Saturday but the right call was made by the Referee-like it or not according to the Laws of the Game.
Ok, once again I have not questioned the laws I have only asked why if you state they result in a mandatory sanction are they not applied to all people who transgress.

That is the question, it is not about what the law states. It is about why is subjectivity allowed if the sanction is "mandatory".
 

Adge

Well-Known Member
I have, is that not quoted from Law 4 - The Players Equipment?
Yes that can be an example or Law 3 The players-


If a player who requires the referee’s permission to re-enter the field of play re-enters without the referee’s permission, the referee must:
• stop play (not immediately if the player does not interfere with play or a match official or if the advantage can be applied)
• caution the player for entering the field of play without permission
If the referee stops play, it must be restarted:
• with a direct free kick from the position of the interference
• with an indirect free kick from the position of the ball when play was stopped if there was no interference
A player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement does not commit an offence.
 

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