Which two boxersIf the 2 boxers failed the gender tests how do you conclude that they are women? Please explain.
Try to do so without mentioning the red herring of testosterone.
Isn't it down to their mother,ie at birth in the uterus there's a level of both hormones present and the dominant one usually predicts the sex ?If the 2 boxers failed the gender tests how do you conclude that they are women? Please explain.
Try to do so without mentioning the red herring of testosterone.
A birth certificate might say "female" ... Is that enough, in your view, or should there be medical criteria?If gender is binary the Algerian was born a woman and is still a woman
Imane Khelif of Algeria and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan—Which two boxers
I am going to reassess on this. My bad. I had understood that this boxer was trans, because that was what I heardI may be really dense here but from what I can see there is just one woman with a higher testosterone count beating another. Isn't that going to happen throughout these games?
The Algerian boxer is a woman, always has been and can get pregnant and have children like any other fertile biological woman. They are from a country with no LGBT rights where changing gender is illegal and it has been reported there are no trans women competing at the games.
I completely appreciate there is an argument to be had about protecting women's sport but I honestly don't see the issue here. Can someone help?
Hang on, the way I saw this reported was that she was trans. If not stated it was very heavily implied. But actually she was born a woman but failed a testosterone test so has possibly been dosing?I am going to reassess on this. My bad. I had understood that this boxer was trans, because that was what I heard
Shows you need to always check facts doesn't it. I usually do, but just believed what I was told on this one.
Yeah, that's the way I see it.Hang on, the way I saw this reported was that she was trans. If not stated it was very heavily implied. But actually she was born a woman but failed a testosterone test so has possibly been dosing?
It seems to me that people don't actually want a clear test, they want to go off vibes.The world has gone mad when this woman was born with a vagina, can give birth through said vagina and for some that is still not evidence she is a woman.
Yeah, but can she identify as Welsh though?The world has gone mad when this woman was born with a vagina, can give birth through said vagina and for some that is still not evidence she is a woman.
That's the IBA, a whole different can of worms.I thought she had been drummed from some boxing fed for having an xy chromosome?
The International Olympic Committee has voted to strip the International Boxing Association of its status as the sport's world governing body.
The IOC's executive board recommended the move earlier in June after the IBA failed to meet set reforms following its 2019 suspension over governance issues and alleged corruption.
Boxing at the Tokyo 2020 Olympics was organised by the IOC amid concerns over the IBA's finance, governance, ethics, refereeing and judging, and the Olympic body will be in charge again for Paris 2024.
Ok, so she was born a woman but has some condition essentially making her intersex?I’ve tried to read up into this as I follow boxing (and enjoy the Olympics)
Here’s two posts that appear to cover the issue from slightly opposing angles. It’s complex as I mentioned on the other thread but for me, however unfortunate for the athlete in question, she probably shouldn’t be allowed to box females due to the additional risks involved (it’s not as clear cut as some make it out to be though especially due to historical concerns over the IBA)
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Intersex would be a stretch surely?Ok, so she was born a woman but has some condition essentially making her intersex?
Yes there’s a an element of irony to how this has been seized upon by some as a woke issue where it seems to be a perfect example of the nuance progressives have been trying to address.It seems to me that people don't actually want a clear test, they want to go off vibes.
This woman has been boxing in women's events for years and appeared in previous Olympics yet now has been seized seemingly based not on the olympics gender testing but because people don't 'feel' she's a woman. IMO the fact that it's boxing is being exploited for the safety angle.
There's plenty of fights where one person is so clearly ahead of the other you could play the safety card.
Noticeable how quickly the narrative has changed from people who have switched from participating as a male to female being an issue to someone who has lived their whole life as a woman and is biologically a woman.
Honestly don’t know hence the question but assuming it’s correct she was born a woman, has female anatomy but failed a gender test I wondered if that’s the case.Intersex would be a stretch surely?
The world has gone mad when this woman was born with a vagina, can give birth through said vagina and for some that is still not evidence she is a woman.
What's the real story then, because I am finding it confusing.That’s not the actual issue.
What's the real story then, because I am finding it confusing.
Thanks for that, Oakey. Very helpful.The real story is that this person is male. The regulating bodies prefer to silly shally around without having robust categories for sex. Without these there is no women's sport. It appears these 2 boxers have been wrongly classed as girls since birth, like Caster Semanya was. Tests have revealed the mistake. They are males with a very rare DSD. A DSD is simply a disorder that means an individual has not developed in the normal way, e.g. elements of both sexes or missing.
So much misinformation. They do not have abnormally high testosterone for females. They have normal testosterone for a male. This indicates they have testes and likely XY chromosomes. So male advantage which renders their participation in women's sport unfair.
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