Without Armstrong (1 Viewer)

oucho · Apr 13, 2016

Now I am happy to be proved wrong on this, but I calculate that AA's goals have earned us 10 points this season. Deduct those from our league total, and we're 2 points off the drop i.e. exactly where we were last season, looking over our shoulders.

So if it hadn't been for a great signing for the first half of the season, we'd have stood still all year from where we were last term. Makes you wonder how much progress we'll make next season if so much is dependent on getting a loannee who can bang in 20 goals a year.

skybluesam66 · Apr 13, 2016

oucho said:
Now I am happy to be proved wrong on this, but I calculate that AA's goals have earned us 10 points this season. Deduct those from our league total, and we're 2 points off the drop i.e. exactly where we were last season, looking over our shoulders.

So if it hadn't been for a great signing for the first half of the season, we'd have stood still all year from where we were last term. Makes you wonder how much progress we'll make next season if so much is dependent on getting a loannee who can bang in 20 goals a year.

most ridiculous thread ever
I can also say that without a goalkeeper , we would have zero points!

ajsccfc · Apr 13, 2016

If we hadn't signed Armstrong we'd just put 10 men out every week, it makes perfect sense.

oucho · Apr 13, 2016

Neither of you think it's at all worrying that without getting very lucky with one excellent loan player, we'd be in exactly the same plight as last season?

covmark · Apr 13, 2016

oucho said:
Neither of you think it's at all worrying that without getting very lucky with one excellent loan player, we'd be in exactly the same plight as last season?

If Barcelona didn't get lucky with Messi......

If Man Utd hadn't got lucky with Giggs.......

If Real Madrid hadn't signed Ronaldo.........

What a ridiculous thread.

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ajsccfc · Apr 13, 2016

oucho said:
Neither of you think it's at all worrying that without getting very lucky with one excellent loan player, we'd be in exactly the same plight as last season?

Not really, because Armstrong's place would be taken by someone else who could have been as good, better or worse. It's impossible to say.

standupforcity · Apr 13, 2016

Hypothetical rubbish! Oh wait...if we hadn't signed Armstrong the person we would have signed instead of him would have scored 30 goals and got us promoted...silly old TM!

Gazolba · Apr 13, 2016

Haven't our results without Armstrong been just as good (or bad if you like) as those with him?

Huckerby · Apr 13, 2016

think you'd better get your coat mate

mrtrench · Apr 13, 2016

What if we'd only have played Armstrong? Would we have 10 points?

Samo · Apr 13, 2016

skybluesam66 said:
most ridiculous thread ever
I can also say that without a goalkeeper , we would have zero points!

Yep, horse shit. You just can't make any such assumption because you have no way of knowing who would have played instead.

KG7 · Apr 13, 2016

Our record without Armstrong is 9 points from 5 games. Multiply that over the course of the season and it's 81 points, suggesting that without Armstrong we'd actually be pushing for automatic promotion...

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covmark · Apr 13, 2016

Oucho seems to have gone quiet. Can't think why.

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johnwillomagic · Apr 13, 2016

Yep Case closed - close thread!!

oucho · Apr 13, 2016

Not liking the hate here....I was trying to make a serious point. Which is, without a fortunate loan signing, we'd be on the same points total as last year. Sorry that sounds so bloody ridiculous.

ajsccfc · Apr 13, 2016

It is a bit ridiculous for all the reasons stated. Without Adam Armstrong we wouldn't see players passing to an empty space where Adam Armstrong ought to be.

oucho · Apr 13, 2016

No but let's assume for a moment that

A) we'd have been passing to the alternatives this season e.g. Henderson, Fortune, Tudgay, LEF ; or

B) we'd have been passing to the likes of Simeon Jackson, Chba Akpom, Steve Elliot, Josh McQuoid etc

The underlying assumption is that we got massively lucky with AA, a real gold nugget, and without the random bit of fortune we'd be down amongst the dead men..

Sometimes it really is painful to have to spend time sitting here spelling it out for you all.

Samo · Apr 13, 2016

oucho said:
No but let's assume for a moment that

A) we'd have been passing to the alternatives this season e.g. Henderson, Fortune, Tudgay, LEF ; or

B) we'd have been passing to the likes of Simeon Jackson, Chba Akpom, Steve Elliot, Josh McQuoid etc

The underlying assumption is that we got massively lucky with AA, a real gold nugget, and without the random bit of fortune we'd be down amongst the dead men..

Sometimes it really is painful to have to spend time sitting here spelling it out for you all.

I refer you to post #12 by KG7.
But in answer to your 'assumptions':
A - No we wouldn't, we'd have been passing to whoever took Armstrong's place.
B - No we wouldn't, they all left.
Your pain is entirely self inflicted.

wingy · Apr 14, 2016

oucho said:
No but let's assume for a moment that

A) we'd have been passing to the alternatives this season e.g. Henderson, Fortune, Tudgay, LEF ; or

B) we'd have been passing to the likes of Simeon Jackson, Chba Akpom, Steve Elliot, Josh McQuoid etc

The underlying assumption is that we got massively lucky with AA, a real gold nugget, and without the random bit of fortune we'd be down amongst the dead men..

Sometimes it really is painful to have to spend time sitting here spelling it out for you all.

I was kinda with the masses on this one but now you've fleshed it out with the alternatives, bar a direct replacement, then hell yes I agree.

ajsccfc · Apr 14, 2016

oucho said:
Sometimes it really is painful to have to spend time sitting here spelling it out for you all.

The pain you feel is because you're trying to get people to agree with something that has no logical basis. If you remove something from the past, it doesn't mean everything else around it would have stayed the same, it's the complete unknown.

Otis · Apr 14, 2016

ajsccfc said:
The pain you feel is because you're trying to get people to agree with something that has no logical basis. If you remove something from the past, it doesn't mean everything else around it would have stayed the same, it's the complete opposite of that.

Yep. Spot on.

Simple example of this is if you said 'well if we had a man on the line there for that corner it wouldn't have been a goal.'

If that happened and you did have a man on the line, that would then almost certainly result in their having a free attacker in the box unmarked and therefore the person taking the corner would have probably gone for a different ball into the box.

It is illogical thinking unfortunately.

OffenhamSkyBlue · Apr 14, 2016

The thing about AA for me has been his inability to score in the past god-knows-how-many games. Even when Murphy was scoring a hat-trick. It can't all be down to the level of service from the build-up play. He is clearly not getting into those goal-scoring areas that he was in the first 15 games or so.
(Apologies for not having chapter and verse of the stats to hand)

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