Why do SISU still want Coventry City Football Club? (1 Viewer)

barnes8 · Aug 7, 2013

Been reading this message board & decided to get involved. The thing that's been puzzling me is why SISU still want CCFC?

I can see some logic (not much) in SISU buying CCFC a few years ago - Championship club, potential stadium/land purchase option, half decent players etc.

Current situation- League One, Ricoh/land purchase gone horribly wrong. Massively alienated fanbase due to shocking approach. Failed to force ACL out of Ricoh with court case etc. They clearly now won't get hold of the Ricoh- they've cocked it up.

Will SISU lose money on the club this year? Or do they cleverly weave their way around debt with different companies? (this is a genuine question - I have no idea)

If they will lose money I don't understand why they aren't seeking to sell the club and call it a day. Are they enjoying this awful situation!? It will only get worse after Sundays game in Northampton.

So what is the point in continuing to own us? They own a League One club with no stadium and a fraction of paying fans. A new stadium talk is rubbish-even if they built it they would have lost half the fanbase by then, not to mention the cost of building it and fact it will never get planning permission.

I don't get it. Sell up and give us back our club.

Also to our away following - keep it up. You are a credit to our good name. Big numbers of away support will make our point in itself and endear us to fellow football fans. PUSB.

mrbluesky87 · Aug 7, 2013

God only knows, when you find out let me know. Its like a long slow painful death surely they want to be put out of their misery.

skybluebeduff · Aug 7, 2013

Because she gets a kick at watching us crumble whilst listening to this...

[video=youtube;ayuooyWPEUc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayuooyWPEUc[/video]

skybluetony176 · Aug 7, 2013

i'll be happier when we can play this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVc29bYIvCM

if you get my drift

hill83 · Aug 7, 2013

My guess, which is probably way off the mark.

However unlikely it may seem, we are still a possible 2 years away from a £90m windfall from getting into the premier league.
That's what they'll be saying to their investors, who more than likely know nothing about football.

And that is money.

Senior Vick from Alicante · Aug 7, 2013

If you look at it from a business point of view it may be quite easy. If you have your own business that is VAT registered you can off set your vat liability's against certain costs incurred for the general running of that business. Now expand it up to the level that investment funds operate at, you have lots of business's or funds that could be making money of which you would have to pay tax on the profits. If one part of the business was loss making because you put management charges against it, whether or not they were real or just paper shuffling you could offset the profits in the other businesses against the losses made in the other one. It wouldn't half save you a lot of unnecessary VAT that you could keep for yourself, just a theory of course you would need to get OSB to see if its possible and I am not suggesting at any time that any one is doing something unlawful.

GaryPendrysEyes · Aug 7, 2013

Now they arent getting the Ricoh I reckon they will want to get out asap (while acting real cool...)-- before Xmas they wont be here, just watch :0)

Nonleagueherewecome · Aug 7, 2013

Tax loss adjuster.

Paxman II · Aug 7, 2013

In for a penny in for a pound. There are still options to get their investment back rather than walk out folks.
That they are obliged to try and achieve. ACL/Council could help them on their way to achieving that or they could build a new stadium and achieve that maybe. Either way they won't just leave when options exist. Would you?

As for planning permission and new stadium can't be viable talk. How do you know? Both could be achievable. I'd much rather ACL/Council talked with the owners to find a medium term solution for all concerned so we saw the back of them and stayed at the Ricoh though.

hutch1972 · Aug 7, 2013

hill83 said:
My guess, which is probably way off the mark.

However unlikely it may seem, we are still a possible 2 years away from a £90m windfall from getting into the premier league.
That's what they'll be saying to their investors, who more than likely know nothing about football.

And that is money.

"who more than likely know nothing about football"

A bit like themselves then hill.

shmmeee · Aug 7, 2013

Paxman II said:
In for a penny in for a pound. There are still options to get their investment back rather than walk out folks.
That they are obliged to try and achieve. ACL/Council could help them on their way to achieving that or they could build a new stadium and achieve that maybe. Either way they won't just leave when options exist. Would you?

As for planning permission and new stadium can't be viable talk. How do you know? Both could be achievable. I'd much rather ACL/Council talked with the owners to find a medium term solution for all concerned so we saw the back of them and stayed at the Ricoh though.

A medium term solution like say, 90% off the rent on a ten year deal?

Only one side wants a solution here. And I'll believe the stadium once there's a shred of evidence for it.

Paxman II · Aug 7, 2013

that deal Shmmeee was not that straight forward as was later revealed.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Aug 7, 2013

In my opinion.
They don't want CCFC.. they want the Ricoh Arena and the associated land- no other. Any other stated position is not founded in their actions to support the football club in a playing sense in the past 5 years since ownership.
They accommodated the projected operating losses of CCFC along with the £1.2m rent as an acquisition cost- a circa 3 year plan to gain control of the Ricoh.
When that plan failed they adopted hostile tactics, withholding rent- attempting to adversely affect ACL etal operating strategy-ACL were in trouble cashflow affected. Coventry City Council agreeing to effectively re mortgage ACL thwarted the SISU plan- which is why they sought the now failed judicial review.

SISU(Otium) now hold only 1 ace- the golden share- the passport to the football league. If their claim for the Golden Share via the farce that is the administration process, (shamefully supported by the football league) can be discredited, it might see them saddle up and ride out of town? - Please God.

:blue:

SkyBlueM · Aug 7, 2013

I think they have backed themselves into a corner but they do not want to go quietly out of pride\spite and the desire to get some form a payment at the end.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Aug 7, 2013

SkyBlueM said:
I think they have backed themselves into a corner but they do not want to go quietly out of pride\spite and the desire to get some form a payment at the end.

I think you might be right(hope)... I guess the $64000 question is.. how much is enough?..... perhaps another "undisclosed fee" might be in order.. I'll drive the taxi to the airport to see them out of town.

mrtrench · Aug 7, 2013

The 'want to make a loss' theory is wrong wrong wrong. Nobody wants to make a loss. Joyce prides herself in never giving in - hence 'sisu'. She wants to make a profit on this - whilst there is time, there is a chance she can win. She will not let go until either she loses so much money that her investors lose faith and desert her, or she gets her profit. I think, by rejecting the CVA, ACL dealt her a serious body blow (I believe that SISU may no longer hold the debt over CCFC like Damocles' sword). If we have the strength to starve the fuckers out, I believe we may be only 12 months away from their departure.

Sisued · Aug 7, 2013

After the JR was rejected there had been a notable silence from Fisher. It seems to me that sisu are licking their wounds and regrouping.
If the end game is for the ricoh then the game has changed dramatically.
With the liquidation of ltd ccfcs claim to the option to buy the Higgs share will be terminated this paves the way for ACL to be sold to any interested party. IF ACL turn a profit or break even this season they prove the business is viable without the club.
IF ACL become distressed SISU will find themselves in a bidding war where they don't control the administrator.

Plans for a new stadium seem to be fictitious so what's left for sisu other than mounting debts and bad press?

SkyblueBazza · Aug 7, 2013

There is a long way to go. They do not much care for the football side...the £70m is only about 1/3 of what they believe the Ricoh could lead to medium term IMO. If the Ricoh is worth about £120m now...as the economy picks up that'll rocket. Plus the income they'll generate by operating the club successfully there. It all hinges on them getting the Ricoh in...you guessed it - the next 2-3yrs. If they don't have it by then I think they'll sell. I am still somewhat skeptical about a new stadium being built, as it wouldn't generate the same returns as the Ricoh...unless they get enough land & the new stadium is quite small (12k) if we are in the Conference by then of course, that might be a realistic capacity to move forward from.

georgehudson · Aug 7, 2013

i'm rather bemused by the fact that a 'shadow director' can have so much sway,
i thought that it was a contravention of FL rules,
whatever mindset is there,
spite, denial, hatred, obduracy, greed, or,
perhaps a crass realisation that faith has been perpetually placed in the hands of inept people,
imho, of course,
& still Ms invisible is supposedly there,
i do wonder who the 'investors' are, & whether they have questioned how their monies are being handled

SkyblueBazza · Aug 8, 2013

georgehudson said:
i'm rather bemused by the fact that a 'shadow director' can have so much sway,
i thought that it was a contravention of FL rules,
whatever mindset is there,
spite, denial, hatred, obduracy, greed, or,
perhaps a crass realisation that faith has been perpetually placed in the hands of inept people,
imho, of course,
& still Ms invisible is supposedly there,
i do wonder who the 'investors' are, & whether they have questioned how their monies are being handled

I'm not sure that they are "inept"...just focused.
Ricoh is the prize they seek...football is a minor distraction/annoyance. I use the word annoyance because it is indeed a side-show for them in many respects, but a tool in others & they have struggled to get the distinctions correct...not through being inept, more a case of FFP consequences kicking-in & confusing some the issues for them.

longjohnskyblue · Aug 8, 2013

georgehudson said:
i'm rather bemused by the fact that a 'shadow director' can have so much sway,
i thought that it was a contravention of FL rules,
whatever mindset is there,
spite, denial, hatred, obduracy, greed, or,
perhaps a crass realisation that faith has been perpetually placed in the hands of inept people,
imho, of course,
& still Ms invisible is supposedly there,
i do wonder who the 'investors' are, & whether they have questioned how their monies are being handled

No question rules have been broken, but pretty much every single role regard ownership has! Beneficial ownership of golden share (illegal). Not filing accounts on time (illegal). Playing outside clubs home city (illegal). Ending transfer embargo whilst in admin (illegal). It all stinks to high heaven. Any pretense they have the health of the league has long since been disproved.

Sterling Archer · Aug 8, 2013

I'm not going to pretend I know the ins and outs of footballing finances and hedge funds but it seems as though the original plan was to get a large windfall of cash from promotion to the Prem. Since this has spectacularly gone backwards, I believe they either now want to get the Ricoh on the cheap by forcing ACL out of business OR trying to get the club in a position financially where they can sell the club at the best offer possible for them.

I honestly thought they may have welcomed administration as an opportunity to get rid of us but obviously not.

blueflint · Aug 8, 2013

Paxman II said:
that deal Shmmeee was not that straight forward as was later revealed.

it was still better than no fans at sixfields

Manchester_sky_blue · Aug 8, 2013

Sterling Archer said:
I honestly thought they may have welcomed administration as an opportunity to get rid of us but obviously not.

Which is why I firmly believe its all some kind of massive tax dodge/money laundering scam.

Buster · Aug 8, 2013

Sterling Archer said:
I'm not going to pretend I know the ins and outs of footballing finances and hedge funds but it seems as though the original plan was to get a large windfall of cash from promotion to the Prem. Since this has spectacularly gone backwards, I believe they either now want to get the Ricoh on the cheap by forcing ACL out of business OR trying to get the club in a position financially where they can sell the club at the best offer possible for them.

I honestly thought they may have welcomed administration as an opportunity to get rid of us but obviously not.

i Think your bang on there Sterling . I recon promotion with coleman at the helm guided by RR as the football front man was the first objective . Around the time of the sale of Scott and Dann cracks apeared upstairs and the financial world started to suffer . i think RR is on record saying he was against the sale . When RR went, the tack changed to hit ACL and aquire the Ricoh as plan B . With that one almost scuppered its anyones guess as to what they will try next ! It owes them a lot of money and apart from that Joy needs to save face

Maupet · Aug 8, 2013

We have all just watched them dump sixty million of their debt in the name of ccfc ltd. And they could do the same with otium before long if nobody stops them

dongonzalos · Aug 8, 2013

hill83 said:
My guess, which is probably way off the mark.

However unlikely it may seem, we are still a possible 2 years away from a £90m windfall from getting into the premier league.
That's what they'll be saying to their investors, who more than likely know nothing about football.

And that is money.

Sorry Hill but I so wish you are right about this but I can't see it.

If their main aim was to get there then you take every advantage you can get.

The Ricoh is a massive advantage in league one when it comes to signing players and managers alike.

As long as the wages are at a comparable level.

They had an opportunity to negotiate again and potentially get back to the Ricoh for 150k.

That could have been huge for us in both FFP and signing players.

Also if they dropped the farcical judicial review. Which most knew was never ever winnable.

We could have been at the Ricoh in front of 15 k with potentially no embargo.
Ready for a promotion push.

I am afraid their aim is the Ricoh not the premiership......

1) they pushed on with the judicial review. This is because it was designed to frighten the council and make them think they will be hampered by lots of financial litigation.
2) Joy said we won't come back unless we get the Ricoh at our price.
3) 90 million will not be enough to cover the debt by the time you get to the premiership. At a complete guess I would say with Joy Seppala's plan we would be about 200 million in debt if we got there in our own new stadium at Brandon in 5 years time.

Sorry but this is 100% about the Ricoh and CCFC and us fans happen to be a piece in the game.

dongonzalos · Aug 8, 2013

Paxman II said:
In for a penny in for a pound. There are still options to get their investment back rather than walk out folks.
That they are obliged to try and achieve. ACL/Council could help them on their way to achieving that or they could build a new stadium and achieve that maybe. Either way they won't just leave when options exist. Would you?

As for planning permission and new stadium can't be viable talk. How do you know? Both could be achievable. I'd much rather ACL/Council talked with the owners to find a medium term solution for all concerned so we saw the back of them and stayed at the Ricoh though.

Pax

Straight question

Do you think they want to build a new stadium

Or

Do you think they wanted the Ricoh empty for a year whilst putting more financial pressure on ACL/Council with litigation.

In my mind there is no question as pretty much confirmed by Joy Seppala's off the record comment last week.

I think if they were offered rent free for 5 years whilst you build your new stadium they would have come up with an excuse not to do it.

This is their last throw of the dice an empty Ricoh breaking ACL.

Where we will be screwed us if ACL Di find that alternative use.

thaiskyblue · Aug 8, 2013

Paxman II said:
In for a penny in for a pound. There are still options to get their investment back rather than walk out folks.
That they are obliged to try and achieve. ACL/Council could help them on their way to achieving that or they could build a new stadium and achieve that maybe. Either way they won't just leave when options exist. Would you?

As for planning permission and new stadium can't be viable talk. How do you know? Both could be achievable. I'd much rather ACL/Council talked with the owners to find a medium term solution for all concerned so we saw the back of them and stayed at the Ricoh though.[/deluded.QUOTE]

James Smith · Aug 8, 2013

Sisued said:
After the JR was rejected there had been a notable silence from Fisher. It seems to me that sisu are licking their wounds and regrouping.
If the end game is for the ricoh then the game has changed dramatically.
With the liquidation of ltd ccfcs claim to the option to buy the Higgs share will be terminated this paves the way for ACL to be sold to any interested party. IF ACL turn a profit or break even this season they prove the business is viable without the club.
IF ACL become distressed SISU will find themselves in a bidding war where they don't control the administrator.

Plans for a new stadium seem to be fictitious so what's left for sisu other than mounting debts and bad press?

Plans what plans, Tim said at the forums we'd see the plans within weeks and we still haven't. Maybe he meant 306 weeks or something, but it still stinks of pie in the sky BS. Haven't heard much on the land deal either!

John_Silletts_Nose · Aug 8, 2013

Sterling Archer said:
I'm not going to pretend I know the ins and outs of footballing finances and hedge funds but it seems as though the original plan was to get a large windfall of cash from promotion to the Prem. Since this has spectacularly gone backwards, I believe they either now want to get the Ricoh on the cheap by forcing ACL out of business OR trying to get the club in a position financially where they can sell the club at the best offer possible for them.

I honestly thought they may have welcomed administration as an opportunity to get rid of us but obviously not.

I completely agree with your summary. I recall saying, when they took over, that they had a maximum 3 year plan for the Premiership and if that did not happen then there would be problems, I was shot down on GMKonline forum for speaking ill of own new benevolent owners.

I don't think they anticipated the public backlash and the impacts, a football club is more than just a business due to the fans and their devotion to the club.

Why would a hedgefund hold onto an asset that is losing money with little hope of a return and causing problems, either it's some form of tax avoidance scheme or something else.

Paxman II · Aug 8, 2013

dongonzalos said:
Pax

Straight question

Do you think they want to build a new stadium

Or

Do you think they wanted the Ricoh empty for a year whilst putting more financial pressure on ACL/Council with litigation.

In my mind there is no question as pretty much confirmed by Joy Seppala's off the record comment last week.

I think if they were offered rent free for 5 years whilst you build your new stadium they would have come up with an excuse not to do it.

This is their last throw of the dice an empty Ricoh breaking ACL.

Where we will be screwed us if ACL Di find that alternative use.

I actually inclined to believe they will with each passing opportunity that gets dumped to try and achieve an agreement on the Ricoh. Not sure it will happen though as there will be many obstacles and hoops along the way which might change their thinking.

For the moment a deal at the Ricoh is preferable for all. It just has to be one without crazy conditions from ACL and more inline with a fair rent and access/ownership of income streams which has been the bug bear all along and ACL won't let go of that to SISU but something has to happen in this area with any owner of the football club.

ohitsaidwalker king power · Aug 8, 2013

Buster said:
i Think your bang on there Sterling . I recon promotion with coleman at the helm guided by RR as the football front man was the first objective . Around the time of the sale of Scott and Dann cracks apeared upstairs and the financial world started to suffer . i think RR is on record saying he was against the sale . When RR went, the tack changed to hit ACL and aquire the Ricoh as plan B . With that one almost scuppered its anyones guess as to what they will try next ! It owes them a lot of money and apart from that Joy needs to save face

Not sure as I align with the SISU "Operation Premiership" theory as primary business model.. I don't disagree that if it could have been achieved then clearly it would have made CCFC a very attractive proposition- far more so than that of a Championship club of course. But where is the evidence that the investment matched that aspiration in a football sense?
I'm afraid for me Ricoh and land acquisition was objective number one... we'll never know of course?

Why do SISU still want Coventry City Football Club? (1 Viewer)

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

longjohnskyblue

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency