Why do fans think CCFC should not be profitable? (1 Viewer)

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Heaven forbid CCC being blamed for anything.

A favourite of mine is SISU backed CCC into a corner. Not quite right. You see if a longer lease was granted at the beginning, the required financing would of been easier. CCC hamstrung ACL with a short lease. Thatwas nnothing to do with SISU. The council didn't operate the arena to it's full potential, something Bob Ainsworth admitted hinself. Neither did they bring people in to run ACL more efficiently. I would suggest this was because CCFC were propping it up. While that was happening they weren't bothered.

ACL was in financial trouble, not due to SISU. SISU stopped paying the rent as A it was extortionate and B they aimed to distress ACL as they were already struggling.

That is not backing CCC into a corner. It's down to the ineptitude of CCC. Just like SISUs ineptitude at choosing people to run the club. Why should people pay when SISU won't. It's not everyone else's fault there incompetent. Well, guess what, it wasn't down to SISU or CCFC that ACL was struggling but we propped it up for years. The thanks for that was selling the cities football and rugby teams down the river.

It's beyond atrocious. How people defend the decision is beyond belief. Just to get one over on SISU because they got us relegated. As people seem to believe they did it on purpose. The same people who say they are only interested in money believe they deliberately lowered the value of an asset of theirs.

Grendel · Jan 5, 2017

sky blue john said:
Lol.
without that loan CCFC probably wouldn't exist now. As there would have been no stadium to squable over, ultimately leaving CCFC knowhere to play.
Hey ho Grendel believes CCFC's survival to be irrelevant !!!

The loan was one of two options the council had - the other to charge ACL £1.9 million a year.

The loan has always been a major factor in the business not being able to succeed.

If the council had started acl with a 250 year lease the loan terms and payback period would have been considerable more preferable and made the valuation much higher.

The loan was irrelevant in the context of the discussion as it was with the council only as the council purchased it from the Yorkshire Bank.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Grendel said:
The loan was one of two options the council had - the other to charge ACL £1.9 million a year.

The loan has always been a major factor in the business not being able to succeed.

If the council had started acl with a 250 year lease the loan terms and payback period would have been considerable more preferable and made the valuation much higher.

The loan was irrelevant in the context of the discussion as it was with the council only as the council purchased it from the Yorkshire Bank.

No. No. No. No. How many times. It was the fault of SISU. They backed the council into a corner you see. Yawn.

Sky Blue Kid · Jan 5, 2017

Of course it was all the CCC's fault. They had SISU in the "Sharpshooter" and forced them into submission to buy into the high rent. What is the saying now?.... "Should have gone to Specsavers"

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

You missed the point again. What a surprise.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

The high rent was a legally binding contract. Something you and others get very upset about being broken. SISU didn't negotiate a rent of £1.3 million. They inherited it. Yes they should have addressed it when they took over. No debate required on that. Problem was everybody's hero Ranson didn't think it was necessary. People still continue to think he was a good guy though. I assume because he spent money. Only problem with that was. It weren't our money.

Oh and the point you missed is that if the initial lease was longer the loan would have been easier to finance. Thus meaning the rent wouldn't of been so high. Now SISU weren't around when the initial lease was granted.

Que an abusive reply.

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
No. No. No. No. How many times. It was the fault of SISU. They backed the council into a corner you see. Yawn.

Showing your true colours here. So you are saying that it wasn't the fault of SISU but do it in a piss take post so you can make excuses for what you have said.

sky blue john · Jan 5, 2017

Grendel said:
The loan was one of two options the council had - the other to charge ACL £1.9 million a year.

The loan has always been a major factor in the business not being able to succeed.

If the council had started acl with a 250 year lease the loan terms and payback period would have been considerable more preferable and made the valuation much higher.

The loan was irrelevant in the context of the discussion as it was with the council only as the council purchased it from the Yorkshire Bank.

Acl were 50% owned by the council so the loan was half theirs in the first place.
You can't say the loan was irrelevant as without it there was going to be no stadium. Nowhere for CCFC to play.
So you wouldn't have been bothered if CCC hadn't stepped in ?

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

I'm saying CCC were not backed into a corner by SISU. That CCC ineptitude led to ACL being dependent on the club who made regular losses themselves. That by doing this they set ACL up to fail.
Making excuses for what I said? No excuses here.
I'll leave the excusing up to you and others. You all do enough for everybody as far as the council are concerned.

Nick · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
Showing your true colours here. So you are saying that it wasn't the fault of SISU but do it in a piss take post so you can make excuses for what you have said.

It reads that he likely things CCC weren't blameless and can't be excused with the "backed into the corner" stuff. That isn't also saying SISU are blameless.

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

Nick said:
It reads that he likely things CCC weren't blameless and can't be excused with the "backed into the corner" stuff. That isn't also saying SISU are blameless.

Have I ever said that CCC are blameless? He even quoted me

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

So saying CCC were backed into a corner is not an attempt at absolving them of blame?

Hobo · Jan 5, 2017

No amount of debate however well researched changes what has happened, neither does it change our current situation.

Football Clubs like any business, especially with limited funds has to be profitable. We have to achieve maximum returns. Selling youth at the first opportunity doesn't achieve that and we need to break the cycle.

We need to free ourselves of crisis management and have a longer term vision. We will always have to wheel and deal but we desperately need to settle the squad down. The core of the team or squad needs to be in place for two to three year cycles.

When a key player leaves it should be funding two key players in. That way you are not necessarily replacing the individuals skill but still strengthening the team. That will improve results, which will improve attendances and improve revenue.

These things go hand in hand. Investment has to come before return in any business and reinvestment is required to sustain progress.

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
I'm saying CCC were not backed into a corner by SISU.

OK where do we start just in case you are clueless.

SISU moved us to Northampton leaving the arena empty.

They said we would never move back to the Ricoh.

They continually said that they were building a new stadium.

They refused to negotiate on the Ricoh.

They knew that the arena would make a loss without a full time tenant. They knew that CCC couldn't keep losing money especially in these days of austerity where funds needed for people in need are even being cut.

SISU were refusing to take on the mortgage. Fisher even said that they would not have taken on the debt like Wasps did.

So what is your point on SISU not forcing CCC into a corner?

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
So saying CCC were backed into a corner is not an attempt at absolving them of blame?

Is saying what you say about CCC an attempt of absolving SISU of any blame?

Nick · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
OK where do we start just in case you are clueless.

SISU moved us to Northampton leaving the arena empty.

They said we would never move back to the Ricoh.

They continually said that they were building a new stadium.

They refused to negotiate on the Ricoh.

They knew that the arena would make a loss without a full time tenant. They knew that CCC couldn't keep losing money especially in these days of austerity where funds needed for people in need are even being cut.

SISU were refusing to take on the mortgage. Fisher even said that they would not have taken on the debt like Wasps did.

So what is your point on SISU not forcing CCC into a corner?

BUT they weren't in a corner when they were laughing away the thought of somebody coming in and taking the Ricoh and the Stadium before SISU

Didn't the council say it was about building trust when moving back?

Didn't they add a condition to say the future of CCFC can't be at risk because of Wasps moving?

Didn't council leaders say hell would freeze over?

Didn't Lucas say that ACL was washing it's face and it would be fine without CCFC?

Didn't Seppalla say she wanted a confidential meeting with Lucas, which then ended up on the front page of the telegraph?

It isn't just one way in the "being a prick" game.

How were CCC losing money? surely they just extend the loan and take the struggle away from ACL?

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

Nick said:
BUT they weren't in a corner when they were laughing away the thought of somebody coming in and taking the Ricoh and the Stadium before SISU

Didn't the council say it was about building trust when moving back?

Didn't they add a condition to say the future of CCFC can't be at risk because of Wasps moving?

Didn't council leaders say hell would freeze over?

Didn't Lucas say that ACL was washing it's face and it would be fine without CCFC?

Didn't Seppalla say she wanted a confidential meeting with Lucas, which then ended up on the front page of the telegraph?

It isn't just one way in the "being a prick" game.

How were CCC losing money? surely they just extend the loan and take the struggle away from ACL?

I am sure that ACL was making a loss even though CCC made out that it wasn't.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Another that completely misses the point. CCC ballsed up on the lease and financing it. They then were shit at running ACL. This led to a high rent for the club and a reliance on the club. CCC set ACL up to fail. I said it above. That isn't and wasn't the fault of SISU.
Why are people hellbent on defending a council who screwed over their football team out of spite against its owners.

Nick · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
I am sure that ACL was making a loss even though CCC made out that it wasn't.

So what difference is there between that and saying CCFC were never going back to the Ricoh etc etc?

Let's not forget the other people who were involved in ACL either

Hence, all played their part in being pricks.

Esoterica · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
OK where do we start just in case you are clueless.

SISU moved us to Northampton leaving the arena empty.

They said we would never move back to the Ricoh.

They continually said that they were building a new stadium.

They refused to negotiate on the Ricoh.

They knew that the arena would make a loss without a full time tenant. They knew that CCC couldn't keep losing money especially in these days of austerity where funds needed for people in need are even being cut.

SISU were refusing to take on the mortgage. Fisher even said that they would not have taken on the debt like Wasps did.

So what is your point on SISU not forcing CCC into a corner?

They knew TF is also full of shit.

The council have a track record of making horribly poor decisions in our whole saga. They might have been dragged into it unwillingly by our previous and current owner's equally horribly poor decisions but that does not excuse the council then making decisions with little evidence of foresight, vision, expertise or intent to protect CCFC as a community asset. Backed into a corner maybe, but once involved they have acted as spitefully and immorally as SISU have and not at all as I would expect a council for the people of coventry should act.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
Is saying what you say about CCC an attempt of absolving SISU of any blame?

No it's me saying that CCC were not backed into a corner by SISU. They put themselves in that position through their own incompetence. Just like through SISU incompetence at running a football club will see them lose money.
ACL was making a loss? Why? The mortgage was covered by the rent. So how would ACL be loss making be the fault of SISU or CCFC?
Oh so AL lied? Why is she not pulled up on it? TF is. Why the double standards? What is so wrong against giving every one of the Bastards shit for what they have done to our club?

Nick · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
What is so wrong against giving every one of the Bastards shit for what they have done to our club?

Exactly how it should be!

Captain Dart · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
Another that completely misses the point. CCC ballsed up on the lease and financing it. They then were shit at running ACL. This led to a high rent for the club and a reliance on the club. CCC set ACL up to fail. I said it above. That isn't and wasn't the fault of SISU.
Why are people hellbent on defending a council who screwed over their football team out of spite against its owners.

The balls up in financing was down to the clubs fiscal mismanagement.
If Richardson & Higgs had got it right it would be the club that owns that land.
They needed £3M to £4M to jump that hurdle but failed to get it and so lost the lot.
How the Ricoh Arena deal was almost scuppered before building started

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Without doubt Richardson ballsed up. Doesn't mean that the council then had to balls up the financing. Then SISU balls up not buying the ricoh upon takeover. Then the balls up of expecting the council to protect the interests of it's cities football and rugby teams. Then the balls up of poor PR and communication. The whole thing was and is a mess. Let's not pretend it's all nasty SISUs fault though. It's everyone involved.

Grendel · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
Have I ever said that CCC are blameless? He even quoted me

No you don't but you never seem to articulate where you think thet have done to incur blame.

sky blue john · Jan 5, 2017

Esoterica said:
They knew TF is also full of shit.

The council have a track record of making horribly poor decisions in our whole saga. They might have been dragged into it unwillingly by our previous and current owner's equally horribly poor decisions but that does not excuse the council then making decisions with little evidence of foresight, vision, expertise or intent to protect CCFC as a community asset. Backed into a corner maybe, but once involved they have acted as spitefully and immorally as SISU have and not at all as I would expect a council for the people of coventry should act.

Exactly they were dragged into completing the stadium. Their hands were tied regarding costs and had to take out a loan. The stadium became a white elephant once Sisu started to play silly buggers, stopped paying rent and moved club to sixfields.
They were probably losing money and Wasps gave them a get out of jail card.
I would have probably done the same in their position. Sisu repeatedly said they weren't interested and was building a new stadium for CCFC. They had identified several locations and set up a comittee headed by Sandra Garlick !

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
No it's me saying that CCC were not backed into a corner by SISU. They put themselves in that position through their own incompetence. Just like through SISU incompetence at running a football club will see them lose money.
ACL was making a loss? Why? The mortgage was covered by the rent. So how would ACL be loss making be the fault of SISU or CCFC?
Oh so AL lied? Why is she not pulled up on it? TF is. Why the double standards? What is so wrong against giving every one of the Bastards shit for what they have done to our club?

Have I ever said that CCC were truthful?

Seems like you are trying to say that I have said things that I haven't to try and make a point.

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

Nick said:
So what difference is there between that and saying CCFC were never going back to the Ricoh etc etc?

Let's not forget the other people who were involved in ACL either

Hence, all played their part in being pricks.

I agree. But you can't make guesses against a hedge fund with public money. If the Ricoh was not taken over by someone it would either be still empty as SISU refused to negotiate or CCC would have to write off the loan which would have been state aid and something they couldn't afford to do.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Did I say you had said CCC were truthful then? Can you point it out to me please.

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
Another that completely misses the point. CCC ballsed up on the lease and financing it. They then were shit at running ACL. This led to a high rent for the club and a reliance on the club. CCC set ACL up to fail. I said it above. That isn't and wasn't the fault of SISU.
Why are people hellbent on defending a council who screwed over their football team out of spite against its owners.

And it wasn't the fault of SISU for dealing with it the way they did?

Nick · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
I agree. But you can't make guesses against a hedge fund with public money. If the Ricoh was not taken over by someone it would either be still empty as SISU refused to negotiate or CCC would have to write off the loan which would have been state aid and something they couldn't afford to do.

How much public money would have been lost if ACL failed before the bail out?

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Alternatively E="Astute, post: 1235997, member: 2627"]I agree. But you can't make guesses against a hedge fund with public money. If the Ricoh was not taken over by someone it would either be still empty as SISU refused to negotiate or CCC would have to write off the loan which would have been state aid and something they couldn't afford to do.[/QUOTE]
Alternatively they could have let it go into administration. Thus removing some or all of the loan. The loan that CCC set up which hampered ACLs viability from the outset.

Grendel · Jan 5, 2017

sky blue john said:
Exactly they were dragged into completing the stadium. Their hands were tied regarding costs and had to take out a loan. The stadium became a white elephant once Sisu started to play silly buggers, stopped paying rent and moved club to sixfields.
They were probably losing money and Wasps gave them a get out of jail card.
I would have probably done the same in their position. Sisu repeatedly said they weren't interested and was building a new stadium for CCFC. They had identified several locations and set up a comittee headed by Sandra Garlick !

They didn't have to take out a loan. Why didn't they make a 250 lease at the beginning.

Astute · Jan 5, 2017

SkyBlueZack said:
Without doubt Richardson ballsed up. Doesn't mean that the council then had to balls up the financing. Then SISU balls up not buying the ricoh upon takeover. Then the balls up of expecting the council to protect the interests of it's cities football and rugby teams. Then the balls up of poor PR and communication. The whole thing was and is a mess. Let's not pretend it's all nasty SISUs fault though. It's everyone involved.

OK. We seem to be getting somewhere now.

So who has said that it was all the fault of SISU and nobody else is to blame? I blame quite a few from Richardson onwards. But you have others that will tell you people like Richardson are innocent of all charges.

SkyBlueZack · Jan 5, 2017

Astute said:
And it wasn't the fault of SISU for dealing with it the way they did?

The point is if CCC had issued a longer lease and was less reliant on the football club. It would have been difficult for SISU to distress it. Companies that are distressed are those in difficulty. The difficulty ACL were in was of the council's making.

Why do fans think CCFC should not be profitable? (1 Viewer)

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