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Who selected and appointed the coaching staff ? (4 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Voice_of_Reason
  • Start date Sep 28, 2024
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #176
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Becuase you’re taking the word performance out of context in sporting terms.

Again - she’s not looking at why Thomas can’t pass, or Kitching decides to unexpectedly goes awol.

It’s the same role she’d have fulfilled in the Olympic team, and working with the premier league. - psychology, sports science, fitness, nutrition - she probably looks at the benefit of sleep
Click to expand...

She’s a psychologist and is tasks in her own words with assessing the mentality of incoming signings and ensuring the players are in the right mind set. Two areas we are failing badly at.

She has also been involved with the coaching setup and by all accounts is instigating and enforcing rules around players giving autographs on the training ground. She was given a two part splash in the CET, something no other coach or support staff was given.

But sure, she just does sleep or whatever and has no responsibilities at all. Just makes cocoa.

The structure is only as good as the people staffing it. What seems to have happened is we’ve replaced two highly effective but “old school” coaches with a team of inexperienced and seemingly inadequate specialists. And now apparently because their jobs are so disparate none of them are responsible for anything, it’s all on Robins and the fact the club has gone to shit on the pitch since this change is 100% Robins despite the previous seven years.

We have a performance director. In their own words they’re responsible for the player performances even if you don’t like it. No that’s not Thomas’ passing but it is him looking like he can’t be arsed and fighting on the pitch.

We have a defensive coach. He takes some blame for the shambles of a defence we have. We have individual coaches, they take blame for the fact every single player is underperforming bar Eccles (who as a City fan hardly needs motivating). We have people who will be responsible for getting patterns of play across, they’re clearly not working. And yes we’ll have someone responsible for tactics and making final decisions and he’s responsible too. But sack him and 90% of the issues still exist. That’s the problem with the model. Yes it means sacking any one person has less of an effect, but that means if you want to have a big effect say to turn around and absolute shit show you need to sack far more than one person.
 
Reactions: steve101, Sky_Blue_Dreamer, EalingSB and 2 others
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wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #177
It's gonna be Sisu all over again, Sack Dowie and bring in the preferred candidate, well that's my two pence worth!
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #178
shmmeee said:
She’s a psychologist and is tasks in her own words with assessing the mentality of incoming signings and ensuring the players are in the right mind set. Two areas we are failing badly at.

She has also been involved with the coaching setup and by all accounts is instigating and enforcing rules around players giving autographs on the training ground. She was given a two part splash in the CET, something no other coach or support staff was given.

But sure, she just does sleep or whatever and has no responsibilities at all. Just makes cocoa.

The structure is only as good as the people staffing it. What seems to have happened is we’ve replaced two highly effective but “old school” coaches with a team of inexperienced and seemingly inadequate specialists. And now apparently because their jobs are so disparate none of them are responsible for anything, it’s all on Robins and the fact the club has gone to shit on the pitch since this change is 100% Robins despite the previous seven years.

We have a performance director. In their own words they’re responsible for the player performances even if you don’t like it. No that’s not Thomas’ passing but it is him looking like he can’t be arsed and fighting on the pitch.

We have a defensive coach. He takes some blame for the shambles of a defence we have. We have individual coaches, they take blame for the fact every single player is underperforming bar Eccles (who as a City fan hardly needs motivating). We have people who will be responsible for getting patterns of play across, they’re clearly not working. And yes we’ll have someone responsible for tactics and making final decisions and he’s responsible too. But sack him and 90% of the issues still exist. That’s the problem with the model. Yes it means sacking any one person has less of an effect, but that means if you want to have a big effect say to turn around and absolute shit show you need to sack far more than one person.
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Performance wise we’d been on the decline since before the change. After Leicester the only decent performance was Leeds.

Wolves like Tottenham was a cup game which seemingly the players they can get themselves up for

that’s close to 9 months of decline. We currently have one of the highest retention rates in the league so it’s not as though we’ve an abundance of new players

Ultimately it’s not our decision, it’s Kings, we’ll have all our answers in May.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #179
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Performance wise we’d been on the decline since before the change. After Leicester the only decent performance was Leeds.

Wolves like Tottenham was a cup game which seemingly the players they can get themselves up for

that’s close to 9 months of decline. We currently have one of the highest retention rates in the league so it’s not as though we’ve an abundance of new players

Ultimately it’s not our decision, it’s Kings, we’ll have all our answers in May.
Click to expand...

That’s not an excuse, that’s a reason maybe to hire a performance director, but you’d expect to see things get better, not worse.

The one reason I have for sacking Robins is to let King live or die (in the towns) on all his own decisions. I think sadly you’re right and it’s Kings decision. I just hope like with the tickets and stuff he eventually realises he fucked up and goes some way to rectifying it because my concern is he’s baking mediocrity into the clubs DNA and it took us twenty years to get past that last time.
 
Reactions: steve101

Bugsy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #180
shmmeee said:
That’s not an excuse, that’s a reason maybe to hire a performance director, but you’d expect to see things get better, not worse.

The one reason I have for sacking Robins is to let King live or die (in the towns) on all his own decisions. I think sadly you’re right and it’s Kings decision. I just hope like with the tickets and stuff he eventually realises he fucked up and goes some way to rectifying it because my concern is he’s baking mediocrity into the clubs DNA and it took us twenty years to get past that last time.
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Disagree totally, that's a foolish reason. If anyone should get the sack should be either the coaching team or performance team imo, or drop the players who aren't performing.
Robins I believe will turn it around, done it before will do it again but needs the support for our fan base and Doug.
 
Reactions: Old Warwickshire lad, Perennial Lurker and wingy
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #181
shmmeee said:
That’s not an excuse, that’s a reason maybe to hire a performance director, but you’d expect to see things get better, not worse.

The one reason I have for sacking Robins is to let King live or die (in the towns) on all his own decisions. I think sadly you’re right and it’s Kings decision. I just hope like with the tickets and stuff he eventually realises he fucked up and goes some way to rectifying it because my concern is he’s baking mediocrity into the clubs DNA and it took us twenty years to get past that last time.
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But her results aren’t going to occur 2/3 months in. You’re only going to see if she’s negatively affecting performance if multiple staff changes on her advice continue to be shit and she’s the common denominator.

Personally I’ve always thought Kings plan would end up phasing Robins out. He’s always going to want his own people.

The real scrutiny will be of Robins does go - who he goes for. I’m sticking to my modern football approach theory which will see a head coach coming in - someone like McKenna, or a foreign coach.

one person I will say that only a few people have considered, is Dean Austin. He’s on top of recruitment effectively and Robins mate.

why has he not identified we needed a central midfielder - one we’ve needed since Hamer has gone
 
Reactions: Cov4life

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #182
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Because everyone wants someone to blame other than the manager without understanding the roles each person does.

same with the coaching staff. Nobody actually knows what role they’re fulfilling
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But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.
 
Reactions: clint van damme and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #183
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
But her results aren’t going to occur 2/3 months in. You’re only going to see if she’s negatively affecting performance if multiple staff changes on her advice continue to be shit and she’s the common denominator.

Personally I’ve always thought Kings plan would end up phasing Robins out. He’s always going to want his own people.

The real scrutiny will be of Robins does go - who he goes for. I’m sticking to my modern football approach theory which will see a head coach coming in - someone like McKenna, or a foreign coach.

one person I will say that only a few people have considered, is Dean Austin. He’s on top of recruitment effectively and Robins mate.

why has he not identified we needed a central midfielder - one we’ve needed since Hamer has gone
Click to expand...

And if Robins has made these appointments then he needs to go really. Which would be a very sad way to end as the best manager for a generation and one who quite literally saved the club.

What made us great was such good use of resources. The excitement from data scouts when we signed someone, haven’t seen that in a couple of years. I’ve not been impressed with anything since the PO final TBH. Feels like the players and the staff were a special moment not to be repeated and we missed out big chance.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #184
fernandopartridge said:
But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.
Click to expand...

They’ve also got some very good staff. If it was as simple as making a few organisational changes every club would do it.

Yet despite all this talk of modern structures and managers not being important elite clubs fortunes do still seem to track with getting a good manager in. Otherwise Man Utd and Chelsea wouldn’t have dropped to the level they have.
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #185
fernandopartridge said:
But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.
Click to expand...
I’m aware they’re all interlinked - but ultimately when they go out on the pitch that’s on Robins.

the players are talented players, we’ve seen this, they can compete with United, Spurs, Wolves etc on their day.

the new signings - all have something there - Rudoni is decent, Dovin is a prospect, Bassette looks like he has all the attributes to be a good player, Jury is out on BTA, EMC, but we’ve seen what they saw in them.

Clearly there’s a motivation issue and a disconnect, Robins ideas and instructions aren’t sinking in - his own words. If that’s the case he’s losing influence - that’s not on the coaching staff or King or John Taylor or Roberts.

it’s his ideas that the players need to be following - and they’re not
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #186
shmmeee said:
They’ve also got some very good staff. If it was as simple as making a few organisational changes every club would do it.

Yet despite all this talk of modern structures and managers not being important elite clubs fortunes do still seem to track with getting a good manager in. Otherwise Man Utd and Chelsea wouldn’t have dropped to the level they have.
Click to expand...
Man Utd interestingly also operated in an older way and that’s credited for how they struggled. Mourinho advocated for a director of football.

they’ve only just started separating their operations under their new owners.

Ed Woodward was in charge of everything - now they have seperate business operations and football is being overseen by Jason Wilcox and the guy from Man City - Barradi or something.
 

alexccfc99

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #187
Grendel said:
Why is everyone obsessed with Claire Robert’s as if she has total control and influence.

She specialises is sports psychology and has worked for other clubs and the Olympic Team in psychology motivation and coaching. She has played for Aston Villa. She doesn’t recruit players, train them or pick the team
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I'll stick my neck on the line and open myself to a bit of stick and just say it tbh

But in my opinion some, not all but a very vocal section of our support are uncomfortable with having a woman in and around the playing staff and are as a result giving her a harder time than she probably deserves
 
Reactions: edgy and Viktor17
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #188
shmmeee said:
And if Robins has made these appointments then he needs to go really. Which would be a very sad way to end as the best manager for a generation and one who quite literally saved the club.

What made us great was such good use of resources. The excitement from data scouts when we signed someone, haven’t seen that in a couple of years. I’ve not been impressed with anything since the PO final TBH. Feels like the players and the staff were a special moment not to be repeated and we missed out big chance.
Click to expand...

one thing I do agree with you, Fernando partridge and Clint van damme is that it’s more complicated than I make out.

but ultimately at this stage the only real change you can make is the manager.

Someone needs to be brought into galvanise these players. Hopefully Robins can get some points in these two home games and get a solid 2 weeks to get to the bottom of this
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #189
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
I’m aware they’re all interlinked - but ultimately when they go out on the pitch that’s on Robins.

the players are talented players, we’ve seen this, they can compete with United, Spurs, Wolves etc on their day.

the new signings - all have something there - Rudoni is decent, Dovin is a prospect, Bassette looks like he has all the attributes to be a good player, Jury is out on BTA, EMC, but we’ve seen what they saw in them.

Clearly there’s a motivation issue and a disconnect, Robins ideas and instructions aren’t sinking in - his own words. If that’s the case he’s losing influence - that’s not on the coaching staff or King or John Taylor or Roberts.

it’s his ideas that the players need to be following - and they’re not
Click to expand...
If the players aren't following instructions that's on them isn't it?
 
Reactions: Perennial Lurker and wingy

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #190
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Man Utd interestingly also operated in an older way and that’s credited for how they struggled. Mourinho advocated for a director of football.

they’ve only just started separating their operations under their new owners.

Ed Woodward was in charge of everything - now they have seperate business operations and football is being overseen by Jason Wilcox and the guy from Man City - Barradi or something.
Click to expand...
It's going really well
 
Reactions: itsabuzzard and wingy

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #191
fernandopartridge said:
But as I keep saying you cannot decouple signings, training and the match day, it just does not work like that.

Oh but Brighton.... Brighton's owner has spent £400m on them.
Click to expand...

They also signed Milner and Welbeck so still see the value of signing experience with no sell on potential.
 
Reactions: nicksar, shmmeee and wingy
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #192
fernandopartridge said:
It's going really well
Click to expand...
I mean I’d argue the manager is very much the issue there - and probably doesn’t have long left himself. Odd team lineups, strange subs…..
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #193
fernandopartridge said:
If the players aren't following instructions that's on them isn't it?
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Agreed. Mentioned this in another thread.

but ultimately they aren’t bad players ability wise. If it’s a case of binning off the players or the manager and getting someone who can motivate and inspire them - guess which option is most cost effective
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #194
If this set of players get him sacked frankly they can all piss off with him. Been nothing but moaning pussies since they signed.
 
Reactions: Mr Meaners and Perennial Lurker
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wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #195
shmmeee said:
If this set of players get him sacked frankly they can all piss off with him. Been nothing but moaning pussies since they signed.
Click to expand...
Come off it!
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #196
shmmeee said:
If this set of players get him sacked frankly they can all piss off with him. Been nothing but moaning pussies since they signed.
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That’s the problem higher up the pyramid 2bh. The fight for each other work ethic sort of goes.

it’s a more pampered world the higher we go. Your Goddens, Kelly’s Tom Davies, Concrete Rod were lower league journeymen but they’d fight and give you 110%

players we have now are twice the player - but need to have a lot of things in place. To cater to their every need.

I read similar about Roy Keane at Sunderland - The Roy Keane factor went as soon as they started signing bigger stars in the premier league. They didn’t care or respect who he was in the game so twctically he was shown up
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #197
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
That’s the problem higher up the pyramid 2bh. The fight for each other work ethic sort of goes.

it’s a more pampered world the higher we go. Your Goddens, Kelly’s Tom Davies, Concrete Rod were lower league journeymen but they’d fight and give you 110%

players we have now are twice the player - but need to have a lot of things in place. To cater to their every need.

I read similar about Roy Keane at Sunderland - The Roy Keane factor went as soon as they started signing bigger stars in the premier league. They didn’t care or respect who he was in the game so twctically he was shown up
Click to expand...

There’s two ways out of this division as I see it; be a parachute club and pay the tens of millions in wages and facilities you’re talking about. Or be a Luton or an Ipswich or until recently an us and punch above your weight with a small committed squad.

I’m not sure the former is open to us, or that we achieve it by trying to copy structures rather than the actual route of paying fuck tons of cash on wages.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #198
wingy said:
Come off it!
Click to expand...

Fuck em wingy. Not a one has achieved anything in the game. “Oh I can only perform if my dog massager is present and I’ve had my matcha tea at three degrees below room temperature”. You’re a small viral star on tour in a small town not fucking Taylor Swift.
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #199
shmmeee said:
There’s two ways out of this division as I see it; be a parachute club and pay the tens of millions in wages and facilities you’re talking about. Or be a Luton or an Ipswich or until recently an us and punch above your weight with a small committed squad.

I’m not sure the former is open to us, or that we achieve it by trying to copy structures rather than the actual route of paying fuck tons of cash on wages.
Click to expand...
Interesting you say that - Ipswich put in the same structure before their promotion from league one.

they’ve even gone down the young inexperienced coaching roles with UEFA pro licences. Performance directors and conditioning coaches. lee Grant, sone Aluko and rene gilmartin are young coach’s

luton have too. Kevin foley is a first team coach, as I said it’s a common set up at this level
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #200
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Interesting you say that - Ipswich put in the same structure before their promotion from league one.

they’ve even gone down the young inexperienced coaching roles with UEFA pro licences. Performance directors and conditioning coaches. lee Grant, sone Aluko and rene gilmartin are young coach’s

luton have too. Kevin foley is a first team coach, as I said it’s a common set up at this level
Click to expand...

Both clubs employ assistant managers within that structure though. Whether that's of any relevance or not I don't know but obviously Robins is used to having one and now doesn't.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #201
Some of the madness posts on here are so desperate to try and get away from Robins being at fault.

It will be the chef at Ryton next not giving them enough energy in their meals.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #202
clint van damme said:
Well yes, at best she could only be involved in a small number of transfers, I acknowledge that.

Though I'd imagine one is Dovin who it now seems is quite a timid lad.

Wonder if the profiling picked up on that?
Click to expand...
Must be all her fault.

Dovin being timid is the very least of our worries.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #203
Nick said:
Must be all her fault.

Dovin being timid is the very least of our worries.
Click to expand...

I agree. But seem as we're supposed to be applying gold standard physiological assessments that doesn't bode well.

Or was it hilighted but we went ahead anyway?
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #204
Nick said:
Some of the madness posts on here are so desperate to try and get away from Robins being at fault.

It will be the chef at Ryton next not giving them enough energy in their meals.
Click to expand...

Similarly some are desperate to defenda new coaching structure over our long term manager.

Seems to be based on a 2 page spread in the CET and Man U doing something similar!
 
Reactions: shmmeee

Diogenes

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #205
alexccfc99 said:
I'll stick my neck on the line and open myself to a bit of stick and just say it tbh

But in my opinion some, not all but a very vocal section of our support are uncomfortable with having a woman in and around the playing staff and are as a result giving her a harder time than she probably deserves
Click to expand...

Don't we have/had at least 1 female coach?

Not heard them being given a hard time before so not sure if that's the case.
 

M&B Stand

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #206
Nick said:
Some of the madness posts on here are so desperate to try and get away from Robins being at fault.

It will be the chef at Ryton next not giving them enough energy in their meals.
Click to expand...

lots of wild overthinking going on.
Heard an interview with Harry Redknapp over the weekend, he said football managers basically need to put good, fit players on the pitch, in their correct position and play the correct system. Thats it.
He was referring to Ten Hag but it stands for Robins. He’s taken us as far as he can.
football is cyclical, so I hope you enjoyed the past couple of years because things ain’t getting better anytime soon. We look a shadow of what we were.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #207
clint van damme said:
Similarly some are desperate to defenda new coaching structure over our long term manager.

Seems to be based on a 2 page spread in the CET and Man U doing something similar!
Click to expand...

Or people are just pointing out that she has fuck all to do with the tactics or some of that nonsense.

Robins is getting the blame for things under his control, what is happening on the pitch, the system not working.

If this failure is down to the coaches, what exactly is Robins job?
 

Voice_of_Reason

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #208
Being a bit controversial, is it reasonable for the new coaching set up to hit the ground running or should we all this season for it to become established ready for a push next season ?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #209
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Interesting you say that - Ipswich put in the same structure before their promotion from league one.

they’ve even gone down the young inexperienced coaching roles with UEFA pro licences. Performance directors and conditioning coaches. lee Grant, sone Aluko and rene gilmartin are young coach’s

luton have too. Kevin foley is a first team coach, as I said it’s a common set up at this level
Click to expand...

That’s incidental to them having a hungry motivated squad and a decent coaching staff. That’s my point. All else being equal this might be the best setup, but if you’ve got an exceptional setup you are only going to bring it back to the mean. The assumption is either you can hire lots of quality or none at all.

I seriously doubt Conor Chaplin was stripping because the coaches weren’t nice enough to him. Both teams had experience on the pitch and players you can trust. Neither would have done what we’ve done the last 12 months.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 30, 2024
  • #210
Voice_of_Reason said:
Being a bit controversial, is it reasonable for the new coaching set up to hit the ground running or should we all this season for it to become established ready for a push next season ?
Click to expand...

Yes. Other coaches manage it. And last season was supposed to be the shit one we endured for the greater good.

Also this isn’t even waiting for improvement or one step back for two forwards. It’s a complete breakdown of everything on the playing side.
 
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