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Who loses out in this debacle? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter Colin Steins Smile
  • Start date Jul 28, 2020
Forums New posts

Colin Steins Smile

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #1
For what it's worth here's my analysis on the current environment surrounding our club and who are losing out?

I understand the strength of feeling about the fact our club should be playing in Coventry and I was one of those that felt SISU was a plague on our club and swore never to attend home games, whilst they were owners. However, seeing the development of playing side of the club over the past few seasons. I relented and became a season ticket holder again to back MR and the team

I feel for the supporters who stuck to their principles and avoided attending St.Andrews last season, missing out on a great experience of seeing a young, skilful and committed team play.

My reasoning for returning to the "fold" as a season ticket holder was that whatever I did would not affect SISU, as they are running the club on a [roughly] cost neutral basis. I appreciate that the accounts will show an interest charge against the club, but this is not being realised and seems to stay on the balance sheet.

Therefore, if MR and his team are to prosper then every pound spent, on home tickets by supporters, gives him a better chance of achieving his goals. If this was the case, then the prospects of SISU selling up and departing are increased, as their mode of operation is investing in businesses to add value, cut costs and sell on. If the club fails to hold it's own in the Championship and starts falling back towards the lower divisions again. Then it's far more likely that SISU will remain owners, as there is no prospect to sell the club on at a price for them to recoup their investment. Remember, it's only a couple of years that the club was one step away from the National League, rather than the Premier League.

In respect to the Ricoh Arena, which was built with the aim of helping the regeneration of that area of our city. This has stalled, due to lack of investment and Coventry City Councils aims are not being fulfilled. The value of a Championship and ....dare I say a Premier League team playing at the Ricoh is worth many millions of pounds per annum and generates significant secondary spend for SME's in the area.

Therefore, IF, the suggestion that CCC was the third party on insisting in an indemnity clause. This is tantamount "to shooting yourself in the foot", as it undermines the strategic plan for the City and prosperity of it's residents, through employment opportunities and direct and indirect revenues from other businesses being attracted to develop the grounds surrounding the arena.

As for Wasps, who are clearly CCC's preferred partner in this debacle. Then agains the backdrop of a business plan that is not delivering the revenues that they projected. The decision the failure to achieve an agreement with CCFC is another blow to them reaching financial sustainability and devalues the naming rights to the arena, further reducing the viability of the project.

In conclusion, I suggest that the losers in this debacle are:
1.Supporters who have missed out on games.
2. MR and his team who denied the funds to take us to the next level or hold our own in the Championship.
3. The residents of Coventry and Warwickshire, who are denied the facilities and job opportunities that a successful redevelopment around the Ricoh would generate.
4. The Council tax payers of Coventry, who would see a lot more investment in services if businesses were attracted to the area.
5. CCC who are allegedly putting barriers in the way of achieving the aims in their strategic plans for the City.
6. Wasps who need greater and more income streams.

The one stakeholder that is not being hit is SISU, in the short term, as they run the club on a cost neutral basis.
 
Reactions: CJ_covblaze, win9nut, lifeskyblue and 3 others
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #2
You could argue SISU benefit as it has galvanised the fan base against wasps and the council. Just saying...

This is why moving forward on a new stadium is essential. If it’s just PR it will backfire eventually.
 
Reactions: TomRad85, Ian1779, ccfc92 and 2 others

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #3
Us and the honest staff at the club lose out.
The local businesses around the Ricoh lose out
Zero hour contract people at ACL who will have less work

If SISU (not CCFC) or Wasps lose out I couldn't give a shit, same as if any councillors have been found to be shady. I hope they get dragged through the dirt and the smug smiles get wiped off their faces.

A new stadium would benefit a lot of people, whether that would happen is a completely different matter.
 
Reactions: TomRad85, CJ_covblaze, Moff and 4 others

Briles

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #4
Ultimately progress on the pitch will dictate the outcome of the issues off it.

If we were still in league 2, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

If fans want a positive outcome they have to get behind Robins and the team regardless of where they are playing.

The sooner some people realise this the better for everyone.

In summary, the real losers are stay away fans.
 
Reactions: Paxman II, Nick and mr_monkey

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #5
Everyone loses out.

It’s a game of mutually assured destruction.
 
Reactions: thekidfromstrettoncamp

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #6
Colin Steins Smile said:
For what it's worth here's my analysis on the current environment surrounding our club and who are losing out?

I understand the strength of feeling about the fact our club should be playing in Coventry and I was one of those that felt SISU was a plague on our club and swore never to attend home games, whilst they were owners. However, seeing the development of playing side of the club over the past few seasons. I relented and became a season ticket holder again to back MR and the team

I feel for the supporters who stuck to their principles and avoided attending St.Andrews last season, missing out on a great experience of seeing a young, skilful and committed team play.

My reasoning for returning to the "fold" as a season ticket holder was that whatever I did would not affect SISU, as they are running the club on a [roughly] cost neutral basis. I appreciate that the accounts will show an interest charge against the club, but this is not being realised and seems to stay on the balance sheet.

Therefore, if MR and his team are to prosper then every pound spent, on home tickets by supporters, gives him a better chance of achieving his goals. If this was the case, then the prospects of SISU selling up and departing are increased, as their mode of operation is investing in businesses to add value, cut costs and sell on. If the club fails to hold it's own in the Championship and starts falling back towards the lower divisions again. Then it's far more likely that SISU will remain owners, as there is no prospect to sell the club on at a price for them to recoup their investment. Remember, it's only a couple of years that the club was one step away from the National League, rather than the Premier League.

In respect to the Ricoh Arena, which was built with the aim of helping the regeneration of that area of our city. This has stalled, due to lack of investment and Coventry City Councils aims are not being fulfilled. The value of a Championship and ....dare I say a Premier League team playing at the Ricoh is worth many millions of pounds per annum and generates significant secondary spend for SME's in the area.

Therefore, IF, the suggestion that CCC was the third party on insisting in an indemnity clause. This is tantamount "to shooting yourself in the foot", as it undermines the strategic plan for the City and prosperity of it's residents, through employment opportunities and direct and indirect revenues from other businesses being attracted to develop the grounds surrounding the arena.

As for Wasps, who are clearly CCC's preferred partner in this debacle. Then agains the backdrop of a business plan that is not delivering the revenues that they projected. The decision the failure to achieve an agreement with CCFC is another blow to them reaching financial sustainability and devalues the naming rights to the arena, further reducing the viability of the project.

In conclusion, I suggest that the losers in this debacle are:
1.Supporters who have missed out on games.
2. MR and his team who denied the funds to take us to the next level or hold our own in the Championship.
3. The residents of Coventry and Warwickshire, who are denied the facilities and job opportunities that a successful redevelopment around the Ricoh would generate.
4. The Council tax payers of Coventry, who would see a lot more investment in services if businesses were attracted to the area.
5. CCC who are allegedly putting barriers in the way of achieving the aims in their strategic plans for the City.
6. Wasps who need greater and more income streams.

The one stakeholder that is not being hit is SISU, in the short term, as they run the club on a cost neutral basis.
Click to expand...
The fans.
 
Reactions: Brylowes and shmmeee

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #7
djr8369 said:
You could argue SISU benefit as it has galvanised the fan base against wasps and the council. Just saying...

This is why moving forward on a new stadium is essential. If it’s just PR it will backfire eventually.
Click to expand...

... Northampton exodus comes to mind.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #8
Nick said:
Us and the honest staff at the club lose out.
The local businesses around the Ricoh lose out
Zero hour contract people at ACL who will have less work

If SISU (not CCFC) or Wasps lose out I couldn't give a shit, same as if any councillors have been found to be shady. I hope they get dragged through the dirt and the smug smiles get wiped off their faces.

A new stadium would benefit a lot of people, whether that would happen is a completely different matter.
Click to expand...

I might be wrong but I don’t think the intention of the OP was to discuss who we give a shit about them losing out. Forget all that, that’s just emotion. If we think rationally about who gains and loses, what motivations might be, it might help us understand a complex situation.
 
Reactions: Brylowes and Philosoraptor
S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #9
Which ever side you take

The losers in this are all either from or around Coventry (not just football related but repurcussions in terms of business etc + the supporters further afield of both CCFC and Cov Rugby

The winners can only be from Hedge funds either ours or Wasps

Cov Council SHOULD be acting in the interest of the top group
Instead they have picked sides in the bottom group
 
Reactions: TomRad85, ccfc92, robbiethemole and 1 other person

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #10
The default answer is the fans
 
Reactions: Brylowes, RegTheDonk, oscillatewildly and 2 others
R

RFC

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #11
Colin Steins Smile said:
For what it's worth here's my analysis on the current environment surrounding our club and who are losing out?

I understand the strength of feeling about the fact our club should be playing in Coventry and I was one of those that felt SISU was a plague on our club and swore never to attend home games, whilst they were owners. However, seeing the development of playing side of the club over the past few seasons. I relented and became a season ticket holder again to back MR and the team

I feel for the supporters who stuck to their principles and avoided attending St.Andrews last season, missing out on a great experience of seeing a young, skilful and committed team play.

My reasoning for returning to the "fold" as a season ticket holder was that whatever I did would not affect SISU, as they are running the club on a [roughly] cost neutral basis. I appreciate that the accounts will show an interest charge against the club, but this is not being realised and seems to stay on the balance sheet.

Therefore, if MR and his team are to prosper then every pound spent, on home tickets by supporters, gives him a better chance of achieving his goals. If this was the case, then the prospects of SISU selling up and departing are increased, as their mode of operation is investing in businesses to add value, cut costs and sell on. If the club fails to hold it's own in the Championship and starts falling back towards the lower divisions again. Then it's far more likely that SISU will remain owners, as there is no prospect to sell the club on at a price for them to recoup their investment. Remember, it's only a couple of years that the club was one step away from the National League, rather than the Premier League.

In respect to the Ricoh Arena, which was built with the aim of helping the regeneration of that area of our city. This has stalled, due to lack of investment and Coventry City Councils aims are not being fulfilled. The value of a Championship and ....dare I say a Premier League team playing at the Ricoh is worth many millions of pounds per annum and generates significant secondary spend for SME's in the area.

Therefore, IF, the suggestion that CCC was the third party on insisting in an indemnity clause. This is tantamount "to shooting yourself in the foot", as it undermines the strategic plan for the City and prosperity of it's residents, through employment opportunities and direct and indirect revenues from other businesses being attracted to develop the grounds surrounding the arena.

As for Wasps, who are clearly CCC's preferred partner in this debacle. Then agains the backdrop of a business plan that is not delivering the revenues that they projected. The decision the failure to achieve an agreement with CCFC is another blow to them reaching financial sustainability and devalues the naming rights to the arena, further reducing the viability of the project.

In conclusion, I suggest that the losers in this debacle are:
1.Supporters who have missed out on games.
2. MR and his team who denied the funds to take us to the next level or hold our own in the Championship.
3. The residents of Coventry and Warwickshire, who are denied the facilities and job opportunities that a successful redevelopment around the Ricoh would generate.
4. The Council tax payers of Coventry, who would see a lot more investment in services if businesses were attracted to the area.
5. CCC who are allegedly putting barriers in the way of achieving the aims in their strategic plans for the City.
6. Wasps who need greater and more income streams.

The one stakeholder that is not being hit is SISU, in the short term, as they run the club on a cost neutral basis.
Click to expand...

Short term pain for long term gain IMHO
 
Reactions: mr_monkey

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #12
Said for while this is about two people at the end of the day: Joy and Eastwood and everyone else is collateral damage.

I know it’s not a popular take but most councillors want the city (including the club) to thrive. They may have different ideas about how to do that but that’s generally the intention.

CCFC/Wasps fans aren’t to blame, all just trying to work their way through a confusing situation.

Media aren’t to blame, they’re working with two very secretive and outright misleading entities and areas of interest (legal specifically) well outside their comfort zone.

Even staff at the two clubs aren’t to blame. Wesaw that Boddy and his opposite number could have a working relationship.

The problem is the two at the top have their eyes on the same prize and for them the collateral damage of a few seasons in Brum/without CCFC is worth the cost. That’s a cold financial decision and until the numbers change the positions won’t IMO.

This is why protests won’t work, questions won’t work, turning up or not turning up won’t work. As a fan I honestly believe all you can do is keep being a fan in a way that fits you and makes you happy. I’ll be taking my girls to St Andrews next season not because I agree with us being there or support Sisu but because they’re only kids once and I’m not going to let two dick heads spoil a chance to get them enthused. Hopefully they’ll both be CCFC fans long after Sisu are gone.
 
Reactions: ceetee, Orca, skyblue025 and 8 others

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #13
djr8369 said:
I might be wrong but I don’t think the intention of the OP was to discuss who we give a shit about them losing out. Forget all that, that’s just emotion. If we think rationally about who gains and loses, what motivations might be, it might help us understand a complex situation.
Click to expand...

This is the correct way on how to approach this.

I wonder which organizations and individuals have or would have benefited financially from when the idea of a new stadium started to take form until the selling of the club to SISU.

This is of course not removing anyone from blame. I just don't believe the full picture of what went on has ever been told prior to SISU taking over.
 

Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #14
shmmeee said:
Said for while this is about two people at the end of the day: Joy and Eastwood and everyone else is collateral damage.

I know it’s not a popular take but most councillors want the city (including the club) to thrive. They may have different ideas about how to do that but that’s generally the intention.

CCFC/Wasps fans aren’t to blame, all just trying to work their way through a confusing situation.

Media aren’t to blame, they’re working with two very secretive and outright misleading entities and areas of interest (legal specifically) well outside their comfort zone.

Even staff at the two clubs aren’t to blame. Wesaw that Boddy and his opposite number could have a working relationship.

The problem is the two at the top have their eyes on the same prize and for them the collateral damage of a few seasons in Brum/without CCFC is worth the cost. That’s a cold financial decision and until the numbers change the positions won’t IMO.

This is why protests won’t work, questions won’t work, turning up or not turning up won’t work. As a fan I honestly believe all you can do is keep being a fan in a way that fits you and makes you happy. I’ll be taking my girls to St Andrews next season not because I agree with us being there or support Sisu but because they’re only kids once and I’m not going to let two dick heads spoil a chance to get them enthused. Hopefully they’ll both be CCFC fans long after Sisu are gone.
Click to expand...

Got to agree with the 'do what makes you happy' message there. I suspect i'll be getting a ST when they go on sale, regardless of whether we get to attend or not, as i want to give them the best possible chance of still existing in the future. The club really is collateral damage in a monumental pissing contest.
 
Reactions: Orca, Iancro, wantageskyblue and 2 others

Nick

Administrator
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #15
Briles said:
Ultimately progress on the pitch will dictate the outcome of the issues off it.

If we were still in league 2, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

If fans want a positive outcome they have to get behind Robins and the team regardless of where they are playing.

The sooner some people realise this the better for everyone.

In summary, the real losers are stay away fans.
Click to expand...

I agree, when people try their best to spite themselves when in reality not going isn't going to bother Fisher or Joy. Missing out on us winning a league would matter a lot more.
 
Reactions: shmmeee and djr8369
B

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #16
RFC said:
Short term pain for long term gain IMHO
Click to expand...
So 13 years so far plus 5,10 or whatever years is short term?
 
Reactions: Brylowes
F

Feb57

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #17
shmmeee said:
Said for while this is about two people at the end of the day: Joy and Eastwood and everyone else is collateral damage.

I know it’s not a popular take but most councillors want the city (including the club) to thrive. They may have different ideas about how to do that but that’s generally the intention.

CCFC/Wasps fans aren’t to blame, all just trying to work their way through a confusing situation.

Media aren’t to blame, they’re working with two very secretive and outright misleading entities and areas of interest (legal specifically) well outside their comfort zone.

Even staff at the two clubs aren’t to blame. Wesaw that Boddy and his opposite number could have a working relationship.

The problem is the two at the top have their eyes on the same prize and for them the collateral damage of a few seasons in Brum/without CCFC is worth the cost. That’s a cold financial decision and until the numbers change the positions won’t IMO.

This is why protests won’t work, questions won’t work, turning up or not turning up won’t work. As a fan I honestly believe all you can do is keep being a fan in a way that fits you and makes you happy. I’ll be taking my girls to St Andrews next season not because I agree with us being there or support Sisu but because they’re only kids once and I’m not going to let two dick heads spoil a chance to get them enthused. Hopefully they’ll both be CCFC fans long after Sisu are gone.
Click to expand...
I am interested as to why you say Eastwood for Wasps. Is it not Richardson who is the puppet master for Wasps and of course Joy for CCFC. Boddy, Vaughan and Eastwood are all employees unless I have got it wrong.
 
Reactions: Iancro and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #18
Feb57 said:
I am interested as to why you say Eastwood for Wasps. Is it not Richardson who is the puppet master for Wasps and of course Joy for CCFC. Boddy, Vaughan and Eastwood are all employees unless I have got it wrong.
Click to expand...

You’re absolutely right. Always get those two mixed up. I think my brain has forever filed “Richardson” under “CCFC Cunts”.
 
Reactions: Feb57

Colin Steins Smile

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #19
Nick said:
Us and the honest staff at the club lose out.
The local businesses around the Ricoh lose out
Zero hour contract people at ACL who will have less work

If SISU (not CCFC) or Wasps lose out I couldn't give a shit, same as if any councillors have been found to be shady. I hope they get dragged through the dirt and the smug smiles get wiped off their faces.

A new stadium would benefit a lot of people, whether that would happen is a completely different matter.
Click to expand...
In posting this issue, I was trying to ignore the personal relationship issues between the parties, but examine the opportunity cost to the different stakeholders.

The biggest of which are the people in Coventry & Warwickshire due to the situation who are losing out on money for local services, jobs, business opportunities and international promotion of the city via sport.

Everyday of the week business is done between parties who dislike each other, but they still do it as they have something to gain.

Forget personalities in this - all the parties blocking an agreement are losing us money, jobs and opportunities. They need to get over it !
 
Reactions: Nick

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #20
Colin Steins Smile said:
In posting this issue, I was trying to ignore the personal relationship issues between the parties, but examine the opportunity cost to the different stakeholders.

The biggest of which are the people in Coventry & Warwickshire due to the situation who are losing out on money for local services, jobs, business opportunities and international promotion of the city via sport.

Everyday of the week business is done between parties who dislike each other, but they still do it as they have something to gain.

Forget personalities in this - all the parties blocking an agreement are losing us money, jobs and opportunities. They need to get over it !
Click to expand...

It’s not about personalities. It’s about economics. The Ricoh is worth more long term than a few seasons of turmoil to both. We accept that ourselves when you see posts like “short term pain For long term gain” when talking about a new ground.

I honestly think the economic impact is overstated. People spend their money elsewhere, jobs appear in Brum that left Cov, but maybe more people get dragged out shopping and jobs appear there.

The social and emotional impact on fans is very real however.
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 28, 2020
  • #21
I would like to add that at the point that CCC sold to Wasps for less than the commercial rate also denied Coventry people resources for the community as the Austerity measures cut in - thus the good burghers of Coventry are still loosing out as the extra income could have paid for additional services .
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #22
Imaagine for a moment MR's pulls off promtion back to the big time in Birmingham?
Where would all the apples fall then?
 

win9nut

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #23
Paxman II said:
Imaagine for a moment MR's pulls off promtion back to the big time in Birmingham?
Where would all the apples fall then?
Click to expand...
Wouldn't want to move from Stans if that happened
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #24
Paxman II said:
Imaagine for a moment MR's pulls off promtion back to the big time in Birmingham?
Where would all the apples fall then?
Click to expand...

Didn’t we have this conversation about promotion to the Chanpionship last year, and the general consensus was that would definitely lead to a deal being done.
 
Reactions: Brylowes

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #25
shmmeee said:
Didn’t we have this conversation about promotion to the Chanpionship last year, and the general consensus was that would definitely lead to a deal being done.
Click to expand...
Yes and until the other day looked almost nailed on. But a lot has happened to WASP and the outstanding EU complaint, so don't hold your breath just yet. We have to inform the EFL so for now it's Birmingham, but I still would not discount the Ricoh coming back into play.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jul 29, 2020
  • #26
Colin Steins Smile said:
For what it's worth here's my analysis on the current environment surrounding our club and who are losing out?

I understand the strength of feeling about the fact our club should be playing in Coventry and I was one of those that felt SISU was a plague on our club and swore never to attend home games, whilst they were owners. However, seeing the development of playing side of the club over the past few seasons. I relented and became a season ticket holder again to back MR and the team

I feel for the supporters who stuck to their principles and avoided attending St.Andrews last season, missing out on a great experience of seeing a young, skilful and committed team play.

My reasoning for returning to the "fold" as a season ticket holder was that whatever I did would not affect SISU, as they are running the club on a [roughly] cost neutral basis. I appreciate that the accounts will show an interest charge against the club, but this is not being realised and seems to stay on the balance sheet.

Therefore, if MR and his team are to prosper then every pound spent, on home tickets by supporters, gives him a better chance of achieving his goals. If this was the case, then the prospects of SISU selling up and departing are increased, as their mode of operation is investing in businesses to add value, cut costs and sell on. If the club fails to hold it's own in the Championship and starts falling back towards the lower divisions again. Then it's far more likely that SISU will remain owners, as there is no prospect to sell the club on at a price for them to recoup their investment. Remember, it's only a couple of years that the club was one step away from the National League, rather than the Premier League.

In respect to the Ricoh Arena, which was built with the aim of helping the regeneration of that area of our city. This has stalled, due to lack of investment and Coventry City Councils aims are not being fulfilled. The value of a Championship and ....dare I say a Premier League team playing at the Ricoh is worth many millions of pounds per annum and generates significant secondary spend for SME's in the area.

Therefore, IF, the suggestion that CCC was the third party on insisting in an indemnity clause. This is tantamount "to shooting yourself in the foot", as it undermines the strategic plan for the City and prosperity of it's residents, through employment opportunities and direct and indirect revenues from other businesses being attracted to develop the grounds surrounding the arena.

As for Wasps, who are clearly CCC's preferred partner in this debacle. Then agains the backdrop of a business plan that is not delivering the revenues that they projected. The decision the failure to achieve an agreement with CCFC is another blow to them reaching financial sustainability and devalues the naming rights to the arena, further reducing the viability of the project.

In conclusion, I suggest that the losers in this debacle are:
1.Supporters who have missed out on games.
2. MR and his team who denied the funds to take us to the next level or hold our own in the Championship.
3. The residents of Coventry and Warwickshire, who are denied the facilities and job opportunities that a successful redevelopment around the Ricoh would generate.
4. The Council tax payers of Coventry, who would see a lot more investment in services if businesses were attracted to the area.
5. CCC who are allegedly putting barriers in the way of achieving the aims in their strategic plans for the City.
6. Wasps who need greater and more income streams.

The one stakeholder that is not being hit is SISU, in the short term, as they run the club on a cost neutral basis.
Click to expand...
SISU Wasps and fans.
 
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