Where's those figures? (1 Viewer)

[saltaire bantam]

I've read on here, maybe more than once, posts where the figures for estimated income per game at Sixfields (compared to same game at the Ricoh) have been shown. Can somebody point me to them or do them again, or, another good guess will do. Thank you.

 

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[Hobo]

Sorry but the Sixfields accounts are a bit of a mess.

 

[RegTheDonk]

There's been a few over the months. This thread is perhaps the most recent...

http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/38410-Borrow-my-calculator-Timmy

 

[Sky Blue Spud]

Nine quid a game x 2000 doesn't take too much working out in all honesty. The tricky bit is deducting an amount for all of those free tickets.

 

[Tonylinc]

Pretty good analysis on the little info which we have OKP

 

[Tonylinc]

I assume that you will be going to the game on Sunday SB. Just a brisk walk along the Manningham Road for you.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Pretty good analysis on the little info which we have OKP

Sorry deleted it- its speculative and assumes constants to offer parity to the argument- did this a while ago... here it is again- opens the door to the usual criticisms I guess? Can flex it many ways- non of which though establish the move as credible in my mind?

Ticket price £	Ricoh Average	Sixfield Average
20	10,000	2,500
Match Ticket Income(per game)	£200,000.00	£50,000.00
(A) Annual Ticket Income(23 Games)	£4,600,000.00	£1,150,000.00
Income from Catering *Assumes £10/Person/Game	£0.00	£25,000.00
(B)Annual Catering income(23 Games)	£0.00	£575,000.00
(C)Rent	£400,000.00	£100,000.00
Annual Income/revenue A+B-C	£4,200,000.00	£1,625,000.00
Lost Revenue opportunity	-£2,575,000.00

 

[Sky Blue Spud]

Sorry deleted it- its speculative... here it is again- opens the door to the usual criticisms I guess? Can flex it many ways- non of which establish the move as credible in my mind?

Ticket price £	Ricoh Average	Sixfield Average
20	10,000	2,500
Match Ticket Income(per game)	£200,000.00	£50,000.00
(A) Annual Ticket Income(23 Games)	£4,600,000.00	£1,150,000.00
Income from Catering *Assumes £10/Person/Game	£0.00	£25,000.00
(B)Annual Catering income(23 Games)	£0.00	£575,000.00
(C)Rent	£400,000.00	£100,000.00
Annual Income/revenue A+B-C	£4,200,000.00	£1,625,000.00
Lost Revenue opportunity	-£2,575,000.00

Okay smarty pants but my analysis was designed for the layman.

 

[skybluelee]

My thoughts;

Ticket prices per head would be much higher at the Ricoh compared with shitfields given the discounts/freebies they keep offering this season.

Also avg crowd at the Ricoh would exceed 10k given the current form.

Add to that lost sponsorship and merchandise.

Surely the net loss is closer to £4m per season? Plus the small matter of £30m for the make believe stadium.

In summary, sisu are idiots.

 

[Tonylinc]

Not only are they idiots but STUBBORN idiots to boot. I am convinced that egos are involved here and that in order to change the stance some personnel need to be got rid of. I think we all know to whom I refer.

 

[Sky Blue Spud]

Not only are they idiots but STUBBORN idiots to boot. I am convinced that egos are involved here and that in order to change the stance some personnel need to be got rid of. I think we all know to whom I refer.

With respect Tony I hear what you say but I think that's a little over simplistic. It's Joy Seppala, if in fact she really does exist, is the one calling the tune and your mate Timmy is only the piper. I've said it before but seriously think that SISU are up the creek without a paddle unless they are able to purchase the Ricoh and if that ever happens I will give "the invisible lady" one personally.

 

[Grendel]

Sorry deleted it- its speculative and assumes constants to offer parity to the argument- did this a while ago... here it is again- opens the door to the usual criticisms I guess? Can flex it many ways- non of which though establish the move as credible in my mind?

Ticket price £	Ricoh Average	Sixfield Average
20	10,000	2,500
Match Ticket Income(per game)	£200,000.00	£50,000.00
(A) Annual Ticket Income(23 Games)	£4,600,000.00	£1,150,000.00
Income from Catering *Assumes £10/Person/Game	£0.00	£25,000.00
(B)Annual Catering income(23 Games)	£0.00	£575,000.00
(C)Rent	£400,000.00	£100,000.00
Annual Income/revenue A+B-C	£4,200,000.00	£1,625,000.00
Lost Revenue opportunity	-£2,575,000.00

We managed £5,2 million income from gates when we had 21,000 - I'm glad you are not my accountant

 

[Jack Griffin]

We managed £5,2 million income from gates when we had 21,000 - I'm glad you are not my accountant

I see you assume £10 per ticket over 25 games to arrive at £5.2M (10x25x21,000), lets be fair and do the calc. on the same basis for £10/ticket for 25 games at Sixfields, then the ticket income there is not £1.6M, but 2500x23x10 = £625,000, whoops another £1M dropped & remember the players salaries are the same whichever venue.. now what would they be?

Well this source http://www.sportingintelligence.com...ll-wage-figures-for-the-past-25-years-301002/, from a few years ago suggests the L1 average might be around £70K p.a., OK lets call it £60K.. and assume 22 players in the squad, then the salary bill is £1.3M, which is something like twice the ticket income.. I can only assume that £1M has to be raised in the transfer market to cover this discrepancy.

Oh yes and there is the £0.5M required for the academy, to match the FA grant too..

It is the business plan from the institute of impending bankruptcy is it not?

 

[Grendel]

I see you assume £10 per ticket over 25 games to arrive at £5.2M (10x25x21,000), lets be fair and do the calc. on the same basis for £10/ticket for 25 games at Sixfields, then the ticket income there is not £1.6M, but 2500x23x10 = £625,000, whoops another £1M dropped & remember the players salaries are the same whichever venue.. now what would they be?

Well this source http://www.sportingintelligence.com...ll-wage-figures-for-the-past-25-years-301002/, from a few years ago suggests the L1 average might be around £70K p.a., OK lets call it £60K.. and assume 22 players in the squad, then the salary bill is £1.3M, which is something like twice the ticket income.. I can only assume that £1M has to be raised in the transfer market to cover this discrepancy.

It is the business plan from the institute of impending bankruptcy is it not?

Why? Why cannot an investor have approved a plan and agreed this funding for a period of time?

 

[Jack Griffin]

Why? Why cannot an investor have approved a plan and agreed this funding for a period of time?

Not according to FFP unless they want it to be a gift..

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Not according to FFP unless they want it to be a gift..

Beware Finns bearing gifts

 

[stupot07]

Not according to FFP unless they want it to be a gift..

The FL will show discretion as long as we don't take the piss. Our squads already very small and under the current embargo we can only replace players at 75% their wages.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

 

[johnniericoh]

I've read on here, maybe more than once, posts where the figures for estimated income per game at Sixfields (compared to same game at the Ricoh) have been shown. Can somebody point me to them or do them again, or, another good guess will do. Thank you.

Could it be that Nice but Tim's brilliant business plan of losing *£172,000 every "home" game at Sixfields PLUS the fans forum reactions PLUS the march to Broadgate PLUS the Sunday Ricoh attendance PLUS the almost total alienation of 90% of the CCFC fan base finally dawned on the mighty SISU and Joy and is about to be scuppered.

(* Ricoh: 1 x home game x £20 x 10,000 gate = £200,000 gate money per game
Northampton:1 x home game x £14 x 2,000 gate = £28,000 gate money per game
= £172,000 loss per game)

Equates to £4M loss of gate money per season if so how on earth did this not satisfy basic financial scrutiny beggars belief !!!

 

[Grendel]

Not according to FFP unless they want it to be a gift..

So what - what's the penalty - a transfer embargo - wow

 

[Grendel]

Could it be that Nice but Tim's brilliant business plan of losing *£172,000 every "home" game at Sixfields PLUS the fans forum reactions PLUS the march to Broadgate PLUS the Sunday Ricoh attendance PLUS the almost total alienation of 90% of the CCFC fan base finally dawned on the mighty SISU and Joy and is about to be scuppered.

(* Ricoh: 1 x home game x £20 x 10,000 gate = £200,000 gate money per game
Northampton:1 x home game x £14 x 2,000 gate = £28,000 gate money per game
= £172,000 loss per game)

Equates to £4M loss of gate money per season if so how on earth did this not satisfy basic financial scrutiny beggars belief !!!

Read above - we have averaged £8 - £9 a game at the Ricoh

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Read above - we have averaged £8 - £9 a game at the Ricoh

£10.76 from your figures I'm glad you're not my accountant.

 

[Grendel]

£10.76 from your figures I'm glad you're not my accountant.

Really - I was talking net -- after VAT or had you forgotten that?

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Really - I was talking net -- after VAT or had you forgotten that?

I'm only going to say this once you're right:facepalm:

 

[bigfatronssba]

Sorry deleted it- its speculative and assumes constants to offer parity to the argument- did this a while ago... here it is again- opens the door to the usual criticisms I guess? Can flex it many ways- non of which though establish the move as credible in my mind?

Ticket price £	Ricoh Average	Sixfield Average
20	10,000	2,500
Match Ticket Income(per game)	£200,000.00	£50,000.00
(A) Annual Ticket Income(23 Games)	£4,600,000.00	£1,150,000.00
Income from Catering *Assumes £10/Person/Game	£0.00	£25,000.00
(B)Annual Catering income(23 Games)	£0.00	£575,000.00
(C)Rent	£400,000.00	£100,000.00
Annual Income/revenue A+B-C	£4,200,000.00	£1,625,000.00
Lost Revenue opportunity	-£2,575,000.00

Your been a bit generous there. £20 ticket at the Ricoh, nearer £13 at sixfields.

Also you left out pitch side advertising revenue of which the club kept 100% of at the Ricoh.

 

[bigfatronssba]

We managed £5,2 million income from gates when we had 21,000 - I'm glad you are not my accountant

OK, so attendances are 90% lower than that now.

Therefore ticket income this season will be around the £500k mark.

 

[covmark]

I'm only going to say this once you're right:facepalm:

I can see the pain in your post

 

[Astute]

Read above - we have averaged £8 - £9 a game at the Ricoh

Which as we worked out before was cheaper than a season ticket. Much cheaper than a single ticket. What we agreed on was more than half the crowd would have to be disabled with a carer going in or young kids with very deep voices

Or was it your accountant?

 

[skybluelee]

Read above - we have averaged £8 - £9 a game at the Ricoh

Which presumably makes the avg at shitfields about £5.

Regardless of your constant 'wumming', whichever way you look at it the lost revenue as a result of the groundshare is huge.

 

[lewys33]

I tried to do a bit of simple maths on a thread a while ago, similar to OKP. This is what I came up with .......

I'm not sure how you did that ....... but what I did was:

2000 fans at sixfields at £16 per game + £3 per head F&B = £32000 + £6000 = £38,000 per game.

9000 fans at Ricoh at £22 per game + £0 per head F&B = £198,000 per game.

23 home games a season makes it:

Sixfields - £874,000
Ricoh - £4,554,000

Now for arguments sake lets say rent at Sixfields is £150,000, and the rent at the Ricoh had been agreed at the original £400,000 offered when talks began.
So the ratio is:

Sixfields - 5.83:1
Ricoh - 11.39:1

Obviously this is just a simple way of working it out, there is a lot more to actually take in to consideration. But this clearly shows that there was no point what so ever to leave Coventry. EVEN IF they had agreed the original offer of £400,000 a year rent they would be much better off staying at the Ricoh.

Then Godiva asked me to include if they had agreed to the £150,000 a year rent for 10 years, stayed there for 5 but had to pay a "get out fee" for every year they didnt play there .........

Ok I appreciate the above so I will do my best to work this out then as well. Just to get a bit of perspective. We will use the 150k a year rent offered for 10 years to Paul Appleton and we will use 5 years to build a new stadium.

Sixfields - £874,000 a season x 5 = £4,370,000
Ricoh - £4,454,000 a season x 5 = £22,270,000

take off the rent.

Sixfields - £4,370,000 - (5 x £150,000) = £3,620,000
Ricoh - £22,270,000 - (10 x £150,000) = £20,770,000

Now for arguments sake let's say ACL charge £1,000,000 per year the lease is broken. 5 x £1,000,000 is £5,000,000

£20,770,000 - £5,000,000 = £15,770,000 ...... still just over 4 times what sixfields could generate.

Again do not take this as fact, just a perspective.

Like I said, simple. Not taking in VAT or any other crap that will not change the end result that playing at sixfields was/is suicide.

 

[stupot07]

I tried to do a bit of simple maths on a thread a while ago, similar to OKP. This is what I came up with .......



Then Godiva asked me to include if they had agreed to the £150,000 a year rent for 10 years, stayed there for 5 but had to pay a "get out fee" for every year they didnt play there .........



Like I said, simple. Not taking in VAT or any other crap that will not change the end result that playing at sixfields was/is suicide.

Problem is Grendal is right, the average ticket price is nowhere near £20 per ticket and the most we've made from ticket sales is around £5.7m from 21k average and a couple of big FA cup games - I'd worked it out at about £11.80 (inc. vat). And that excludes 4 home cup games so the real cost would be lower.

Ofcourse you can then factor that down at Sixfields. I think everyone is in agreement that being at Sixfields makes no short term financial sense.


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[sky blue john]

We managed £5,2 million income from gates when we had 21,000 - I'm glad you are not my accountant

Grendel where does HMRC stand these days on declaring pocket money?

 

[oldskyblue58]

only figures we have are historical the last ones being in the 2012 accounts (no there were none for CCFC Ltd but the information is in the group accounts for SBS&L)

Match day income (which includes executive boxes, pools, and net receipts from cup and league matches) was £3,550,702. That is net of VAT

total attendances were 356735 in 24 matches at the Ricoh season 2011/12

That means a spend of £9.95 per person. (excluding VAT)

I think match tickets started at £18 inc VAT that year, then there are concessions to consider plus there would be more executive box deals at higher prices etc..... at Sixfields the starting price is £16 inc VAT, there are plenty of concessions, ST's are cheaper, not much by way of executive boxes and at much lower value.

You would have to assume the £ per person is a lot lower at Sixfields...... £8 or lower ?

 

[lewys33]

Problem is Grendal is right, the average ticket price is nowhere near £20 per ticket and the most we've made from ticket sales is around £5.7m from 21k average and a couple of big FA cup games - I'd worked it out at about £11.80 (inc. vat). And that excludes 4 home cup games so the real cost would be lower.

Ofcourse you can then factor that down at Sixfields. I think everyone is in agreement that being at Sixfields makes no short term financial sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

I agree there is a lot more to it, I just used the ticket prices that are listed. So simple stuff really. I'm not in business nor do I claim to have any business knowledge, so I am quite happy for someone more in the know to take what I did and rip it apart to make it more accurate. But yes, like you said Sixfields makes no financial sense to anyone really.

 

[saltaire bantam]

Thanks for all the detailed information.

I assume that you will be going to the game on Sunday SB. Just a brisk walk along the Manningham Road for you.

No pal, I live on the north, the normal side, I actually have a junior game at 1pm (I am a coach) as do others so there'll be loads of kids in mucky kits rushing to VP for KO! Although our points per game haul has slumped and we are at the bottom of the form table, I've actually seen some good performances so my toys are still firmly in my pram.

We will play 4-4-2, 2 midfielders and one wide man will hold, Kyel Reid given license to fanny about on the left, the ball will be shifted as quickly as possible to Hanson's bonce and then it's up to Wells. It's very basic British footie and the team is big, we'll overpower a few teams when on form but we struggle if the oppo can hold and shift the ball about quickly. Will happily take a point........

 

[oldskyblue58]

		10.18 2006 Ricoh 10.44 2007 Ricoh 11.95 2008 Ricoh 11.36 2009 Ricoh 10.08 2010 Ricoh 9.63 2011 Ricoh these are average £ per person at the Ricoh match ticket income

Net of VAT, figures based on info in the accounts, published attendances etc. But see comments on previous post.