Where's the deal? (3 Viewers)

[ashbyjan]

SISU have not spent a penny of their own money, they have squandered £37 million of their clients money - this fact is what needs highlighting to the financial world. A £37 million loss, no plan to recover it let alone show a profit so would you want to be giving them your money to invest?

 

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[We'll_live_and_die]

SISU have not spent a penny of their own money, they have squandered £37 million of their clients money - this fact is what needs highlighting to the financial world. A £37 million loss, no plan to recover it let alone show a profit so would you want to be giving them your money to invest?

Jan do you know they have no plan to recover the cash?

 

[ashbyjan]

If they have its a very well kept secret and logically with the continuous cuts I cannot see one in place. The only realistic way to get that sort of money back quickly (and they are a hedge fund so everything is short term) is to be in the Premiership yet SISU seem to have misunderstood direction that was meant when they coined the term "get out of the Championship".

 

[We'll_live_and_die]

If they have its a very well kept secret and logically with the continuous cuts I cannot see one in place. The only realistic way to get that sort of money back quickly (and they are a hedge fund so everything is short term) is to be in the Premiership yet SISU seem to have misunderstood direction that was meant when they coined the term "get out of the Championship".

Everything about them is secretive though, so none of us know if they have a plan or not. I admit it looks like they don't but you don't get people to invest £37mill without previous history of successful investments and cash recovery.

 

[ashbyjan]

Joy Seppala built her reputation as a highly successful investment banker at BNP Parisbas and allegedly made serious amounts of money for her clients before leaving to set up SISU with Dermot Coleman - they have certainly invested clients money but how successfully is another matter as its hard to ascertain any real details from their accounts as their are so many companies, shadow companies, holding companies etc. SISU as a company did lose money but that doesn't necessarily reflect how their clients investments faired. What is clear is that they have invested substantial amounts of their clients money into a venture they clearly do not understand and they apparently cannot see a way out. Whilst it is true that all investments can go down as well as up this is one of theirs that is going down spectacularly.

 

[ICHAN]

I think sisu were very naive in their let's make money in football approach.
It appears as though they were led into this by others without doing their own research, which is their mistake which we as fans are now feeling the consequences of.
They did come into the world of football by buying players and were maybe hoping that this would get them success and into the premiership, in year 1, wonder what their 3 - 5 year plan was?.
Unfortunatly that did not happen as we all know, and so they appear to have panicked and started the selling of players too early to try and recoup some money for their investors, then the downward spiral started.
Why the selling of players started I do not know in regard to the plan they may have had in place, someone must have initiated this process who we just do not know, but they did and since then they have been chasing money at all costs to try and recoup money.
Unfortunatly as we all know that this will only lead one way and that is a weaker team that is unable to compete at a level of football and so they have no chance of getting the team into the promised land where they could have made the money that they initial came into get.

Sorry but tough luck SISU that was your mistake, so if you want your money back invest in the team (which we know they won't) or have the decency to let us know what you plans are without the bullshit (which we know they won't) for the future of the club.

Everything has gone very quiet since KD went from the sisu camp.:thinking about:

 

[torchomatic]

They obviously know how to make money or they wouldn't be in the business in the first place. Their mistake was obviously to presume that every business is the same and that's where they've been found out. They should have done more research before investing and trying to turn round a failing football club such as Coventry City.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Everything about them is secretive though, so none of us know if they have a plan or not. I admit it looks like they don't but you don't get people to invest £37mill without previous history of successful investments and cash recovery.

Ever heard of Bernie Madoff????

 

[Colonel Mustard]

SISU have not spent a penny of their own money, they have squandered £37 million of their clients money - this fact is what needs highlighting to the financial world. A £37 million loss, no plan to recover it let alone show a profit so would you want to be giving them your money to invest?

Sure, but this was always known - that's the nature of a hedge fund. When people such as LBB talk of SISU 'not investing £X', then he must be referring to the clients' money. The money may not have been spent well, but it has been spent...unless I'm missing something?

 

[ashbyjan]

Actually Colonel the evidence for the money being spent is sparse - last years accounts showed the losses to be around £20m now suddenly they are talking about £37 million yet they boasted about how the running costs had been slashed, maybe maths isn't their strong point - and they wonder why no one trusts them.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

They obviously know how to make money or they wouldn't be in the business in the first place. Their mistake was obviously to presume that every business is the same and that's where they've been found out. They should have done more research before investing and trying to turn round a failing football club such as Coventry City.

I'm not sure if there was an absence of a plan, but rather an absence of flexibility.

The plan to invest money in the front line, buying the top players from lower league clubs and (presumably) flipping them to reinvest in multiple players wasn't a bad one at all. It is the closest I can think of to an optimal strategy for a team without a genuine sugar daddy.

But there were unforseeables. Many have speculated, and I also think it's the case, that the global financial crisis of 2008 had a big effect. You can trace the expenditures up until that point - SISU were picking up the bill for ongoing losses, paying a hefty wage to a (then) reputable Chris Coleman, paying around £4m for players such as Eastwood, Westwood, Gunnarsson, Fox, Dann, upgrading Ryton, and so forth. But beyond the autumn of 2008, the time of the financial crash, you see a clear case of belt tightening. For example, Bell and McPake were brought in only after Borrowdale and Tabb had been sold.

Then there was the issue of not firing Chris Coleman, though whether that was because RR was too chummy or because they couldn't afford to pay off the contract is anyone's guess. Either way, those sorta things represent the big mistake - a lack of flexibility. You've got to back a plan like that to the hilt, see it through, be prepared to take more losses for a longer-term yield. But if the clients wanted to shut their pocket books then I guess that was their mistake to make.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Actually Colonel the evidence for the money being spent is sparse - last years accounts showed the losses to be around £20m now suddenly they are talking about £37 million yet they boasted about how the running costs had been slashed, maybe maths isn't their strong point - and they wonder why no one trusts them.

Surely if the club's losses are on the books and have been covered by SISU then that is precisely evidence of money being spent.

 

[coundonskyblue]

I'm not sure if there was an absence of a plan, but rather an absence of flexibility.

The plan to invest money in the front line, buying the top players from lower league clubs and (presumably) flipping them to reinvest in multiple players wasn't a bad one at all. It is the closest I can think of to an optimal strategy for a team without a genuine sugar daddy.

But there were unforseeables. Many have speculated, and I also think it's the case, that the global financial crisis of 2008 had a big effect. You can trace the expenditures up until that point - SISU were picking up the bill for ongoing losses, paying a hefty wage to a (then) reputable Chris Coleman, paying around £4m for players such as Eastwood, Westwood, Gunnarsson, Fox, Dann, upgrading Ryton, and so forth. But beyond the autumn of 2008, the time of the financial crash, you see a clear case of belt tightening. For example, Bell and McPake were brought in only after Borrowdale and Tabb had been sold.

Then there was the issue of not firing Chris Coleman, though whether that was because RR was too chummy or because they couldn't afford to pay off the contract is anyone's guess. Either way, those sorta things represent the big mistake - a lack of flexibility. You've got to back a plan like that to the hilt, see it through, be prepared to take more losses for a longer-term yield. But if the clients wanted to shut their pocket books then I guess that was their mistake to make.

Where I lose sympathy with Sisu though is the financial crash started in September 2007 with the collapse of Northern Rock. From that point on everyone could see a recession coming, everyone apart from Sisu that is.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Where I lose sympathy with Sisu though is the financial crash started in September 2007 with the collapse of Northern Rock. From that point on everyone could see a recession coming, everyone apart from Sisu that is.

But a global recession coming? Lehman Bros took everybody by surprise.

 

[crowsnest]

Actually Colonel the evidence for the money being spent is sparse - last years accounts showed the losses to be around £20m now suddenly they are talking about £37 million yet they boasted about how the running costs had been slashed, maybe maths isn't their strong point - and they wonder why no one trusts them.

I take it you are joking?

We have been losing money every year since the take over - where do you think the money is coming from to pay the loss if not sisu?

 

[ashbyjan]

So we are bottom of the Championship because of bloody Lehman Brothers - Boo Lehman Out oh they've already gone. Anyone else we can blame rather than SISU? Bet its those pesky damn Greeks isn't it? Or maybe the Judahian Peoples Front?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

So we are bottom of the Championship because of bloody Lehman Brothers - Boo Lehman Out oh they've already gone. Anyone else we can blame rather than SISU? Bet its those pesky damn Greeks isn't it? Or maybe the Judahian Peoples Front?

Bewildering thing to say. Who was defending SISU?

 

[lordsummerisle]

Bewildering thing to say. Who was defending SISU?

I'm blaming the People's Front of Judea myself, splitters the lot of them.

 

[ashbyjan]

Or is the Popular Peoples Front? I have rang the Ricoh to complain about the lack of Badgers Noses and Ocelot Spleens from the catering people........

 

[BANTAM]

I have my doubts about Uncle Joe.

The man who urged shareholders to surrender there certificates....the man who as recently ago as March said that '...in SISU, we are in safe hands...'....the man who was around when Richardson started to dig this hole for us....

I would like to ask the Orange Man MKII some questions about what he knows as to what has happened in the last 15 years, and what he has done to aid the situation...he seems to be the one constant....up RR arse one day, and now up Hoffman's....I hope he isn't just around for the freebies.....????

Uncle Joe is just out for himself as is Andy "the loser"Thorn.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Uncle Joe is just out for himself as is Andy "the loser"Thorn.

Don't know Joe, but I used to be a member of the Premier Club at the much lamented Highfield Road - Joe used to spend the pre-match time, meeting and greeting the customers and generally playing the good host.

Now, if I'd been him, I'd have much preferred to spend that time sipping champagne far away from the "paying customers".

I can't see that he got much out of that for himself (except perhaps a sore jaw from smiling at people like me for a couple of hours) and I'm not aware that he's ever taken a salary from the club. So I'm not sure why you conclude that "he's just out for himself".

 

[shmmeee]

Don't know Joe, but I used to be a member of the Premier Club at the much lamented Highfield Road - Joe used to spend the pre-match time, meeting and greeting the customers and generally playing the good host.

Now, if I'd been him, I'd have much preferred to spend that time sipping champagne far away from the "paying customers".

I can't see that he got much out of that for himself (except perhaps a sore jaw from smiling at people like me for a couple of hours) and I'm not aware that he's ever taken a salary from the club. So I'm not sure why you conclude that "he's just out for himself".

He's a Leicester troll. Just ignore him.

 

[BANTAM]

Don't know Joe, but I used to be a member of the Premier Club at the much lamented Highfield Road - Joe used to spend the pre-match time, meeting and greeting the customers and generally playing the good host.

Now, if I'd been him, I'd have much preferred to spend that time sipping champagne far away from the "paying customers".

I can't see that he got much out of that for himself (except perhaps a sore jaw from smiling at people like me for a couple of hours) and I'm not aware that he's ever taken a salary from the club. So I'm not sure why you conclude that "he's just out for himself".

How about free drinks and meals and expenses and loading over you.

 

[cloughie]

How about free drinks and meals and expenses and loading over you.

Well if he been off loading over anyone I hope he pays for the dry cleaning, lord knows

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

How about free drinks and meals and expenses and loading over you.

Is this a new use of the verb "to load"?

 

[Stevec189]

Costs had to be controlled you cannot spend 120% of revenue on wages. That way lies total madness and carnage. It did for Leeds and will do for some other big clubs before long. There are simply not enough very rich idiots in the world! PUSB

 

[shmmeee]

Costs had to be controlled you cannot spend 120% of revenue on wages. That way lies total madness and carnage. It did for Leeds and will do for some other big clubs before long. There are simply not enough very rich idiots in the world! PUSB

You sound like George Osborne. It's not that simple in a business. This is not a household budget. If you cut investment you also cut income. We are in a downward spiral.

Did we need to get better value for money? Yes. Did we need to be careful about the contracts we gave out? Yes. Was there scope to cut admin costs? Probably. Will relegation add another £4-6m a year onto our losses, thereby wiping out all the work done in the last three years? Definitely.

SISU have looked at only one side of the balance sheet (expenditure) while paying no attention to the other (income), THAT way madness lies.

 

[cloughie]

You sound like George Osborne. It's not that simple in a business. This is not a household budget. If you cut investment you also cut income. We are in a downward spiral.

Did we need to get better value for money? Yes. Did we need to be careful about the contracts we gave out? Yes. Was there scope to cut admin costs? Probably. Will relegation add another £4-6m a year onto our losses, thereby wiping out all the work done in the last three years? Definitely.

SISU have looked at only one side of the balance sheet (expenditure) while paying no attention to the other (income), THAT way madness lies.

Absolutley correct

It is easy to cut the costs to make a good balance sheet, but when your product changes from premium brand to value brand then your income reduces accordingly

 

[ICHAN]

If we get relegated what will we be like then if their still here it is a horrible thought, they cost cut now with the income their getting at the moment god help us.
Relegation could truely be a nightmare in more ways than one.

 

[Stevec189]

You sound like George Osborne. It's not that simple in a business. This is not a household budget. If you cut investment you also cut income. We are in a downward spiral.

Did we need to get better value for money? Yes. Did we need to be careful about the contracts we gave out? Yes. Was there scope to cut admin costs? Probably. Will relegation add another £4-6m a year onto our losses, thereby wiping out all the work done in the last three years? Definitely.

SISU have looked at only one side of the balance sheet (expenditure) while paying no attention to the other (income), THAT way madness lies.

I said nothing about cutting investment only expenditure on a wage bill that was unsustainable. Do you think it is right for CCFC or any club for that matter to be spending 120% of income on wages? It is unsustainable with out very deep pockets and as I said there are not enough rich idiots in the world for that. relegation will no doubt cut income but if we are run correctly then we can survive. if you want to know what the future holds this article on Charlton will be a good pointer. Sorry to be a gloom merchant but it ain't pretty! http://swissramble.blogspot.com/2011/11/charlton-athletic-into-valley.html.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Good research Steve.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

The deal is we will be going cheap when we get relegated just like Southampton did. We are already trying to offload big wage players who are still in contract to make us a cheap buy and give somthing back to SISU

There will be no takeover till we end up in league 1 , with small wages on contracts remaining

We are bolloxed