Where it all went wrong (1 Viewer)

maddog · Dec 24, 2014

Been thinking of those crucial moments where it all went wrong for the City with decisions that were in the clubs control,not including the current SISU disaster. Assuming the cup win in 1987 was the high point and it was more or less downhill from there. The chronology may be a bit off, but this is how I see it.
1) Allowing George Curtis to exit management and join the board.
2) Sacking Sillett and putting Butcher in charge.
3) Robbins being duped into selling his shares. Allegedly, he said he would never sell to Robinson, so Robinson used Richardson as a front.
4) Allowing Atkinson free reign to spend spend spend.
5) Selling Highfield Road.
6) Not buying John Hartson 3 months earlier.
7) Not realising Strachan had been at the club too long.
8) Sacking Eric Black and putting Peter Reid in charge.
I am sure there are plenty more, but it can mainly be considered that most of the really bad decisions were made during the Richardson/McGinnty/Robinson era.

Gosford Green · Dec 24, 2014

Number 8: Eric Black got the team playing open and attractive football and scoring goals, McGinty sacked him then thought putting the useless Peter Reid in charge would move the club forward.

The other 7 can be left open to debate, rumour or a well meaning error of judgement but this has to be the most ridiculous decision in the clubs recent history.

SkyblueBazza · Dec 24, 2014

I must admit one of the best comments I read on a fanzine was regards the Black/Reid thing. Something about given the way we had been playing it's a bit like sacking Van Gogh & getting Rolf Harris is to finish the ceiling!
A dreadful decision.

Paxman II · Dec 24, 2014

What....you don't think all football clubs look back in hindsight?

Ian1779 · Dec 24, 2014

Number 8 all day long. I read something not too long after about all the players Black had supposedly lined up which McGinnity had never heard of (Simonsen was one of them) - all went on to have good careers at Champ/PL level.

stupot07 · Dec 24, 2014

I don't think 6) would have any bearing on where we are right now, we were haemorrhaging money in the PL and would have likely gone down the following season with even more debt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

chiefdave · Dec 24, 2014

Number 2 for me, the whole 91-94 period really where we started the managerial merry go round and Richardson gained power.

I'll admit at the time I paid zero attention to financial and legal matters and just turned up to watch the games. Enjoyed watching some great players of course during Richardson's 'punt', not sure I'd have enjoyed those years quite so much if i'd been aware of the mess we were getting into behind the scenes.

Even when the whole Arena 2000 thing started I bought into it hook line and sinker. Never thought we'd end up in the state we are in now.

letsallsingtogether · Dec 24, 2014

SkyblueBazza said:
I must admit one of the best comments I read on a fanzine was regards the Black/Reid thing. Something about given the way we had been playing it's a bit like sacking Van Gogh & getting Rolf Harris is to finish the ceiling!
A dreadful decision.

TBF Rolf would have been good at painting children

Did they have face painting back in the day?

M&B Stand · Dec 24, 2014

Not giving Jimmy Hill a ten year contract.

The arrival of Robinson & Richardson was critical and will haunt us for years to come, we've not hit rock bottom yet. We're still sinking.

Merry Christmas

Grendel · Dec 24, 2014

The club should have immediately gone into administration when they were relegated - wiped the debts and purchased highfiekd road back.

We'd have all lived happily ever after.

Macca · Dec 24, 2014

The seeds were down before then but death came in 2005 for me. Left behind at HR

maddog · Dec 24, 2014

M&B Stand said:
Not giving Jimmy Hill a ten year contract.

The arrival of Robinson & Richardson was critical and will haunt us for years to come, we've not hit rock bottom yet. We're still sinking.

Merry Christmas

Forgot about Jimmy Hill wanting a long-term contract to stay. I think we would have been a major force if he had stayed. We were the best supported club in the Midlands at the time and really going places. Robbins not employing Clough (who said we were a bigger club than Derby who had just won Div1 ie Premier League) was another. Some of the younger supporters just don't realise how big we were when Jimmy Hill was boss - 25k gates in Div 3, 51k against Wolves, more against Sunderland, 37K in top division. Cantwell got us into Europe but he changed the style from attack, attack, attack where we overwhelmed clubs to defence first.

maddog · Dec 24, 2014

Paxman II said:
What....you don't think all football clubs look back in hindsight?

Those who fail to learn from history repeat the same mistakes time after time.

Nick · Dec 24, 2014

maddog said:
Those who fail to learn from history repeat the same mistakes time after time.

Is your surname 20/20?

ccfc92 · Dec 24, 2014

What about, after winning the FA Cup, being banned from playing in Europe because of Liverpool?

Or was it not as much a big deal then as it is now? (European football I mean)

SkyblueBazza · Dec 24, 2014

ccfc92 said:
What about, after winning the FA Cup, being banned from playing in Europe because of Liverpool?

Or was it not as much a big deal then as it is now? (European football I mean)

In an effort to be fair (ish) to Liverpool fans - had that been a one off incident we would likely have still been in Europe. We have the Vile, Liverpool, Leeds & others to thank. That specific incident was just the final straw.

ccfc92 · Dec 24, 2014

SkyblueBazza said:
In an effort to be fair (ish) to Liverpool fans - had that been a one off incident we would likely have still been in Europe. We have the Vile, Liverpool, Leeds & others to thank. That specific incident was just the final straw.

Fair enough bit all before my time.

But was getting into Europe as big as now or...? Financial wise etc

Grendel · Dec 24, 2014

ccfc92 said:
Fair enough bit all before my time.

But was getting into Europe as big as now or...? Financial wise etc

No it wasn't.

M&B Stand · Dec 24, 2014

Financial no. But it meant something, eufa cup, cup winners cup were really prestigius competitions unlike the Europa League laughing stock. Bit like the FA Cup back in the day.
Mechelen won the cup winners cup the year we should've been in it. PSV won the European Cup. It's not beyond the realms that the 1988 European Super Cup couldve been Everton v Coventry City.

And yes I've had a few.

wingy · Dec 24, 2014

Grendel said:
No it wasn't.

True ,but we'd probably have gained In terms of sponsorship, attracting higher level players etc and had some fun along the way

ccfc92 · Dec 24, 2014

What about on the pitch wise?

If we had of beat Villa, do we reckon we would have stayed up in the prem?

Would we have just delayed the inevitable? In all your opinions...?

Hobo · Dec 24, 2014

That Jesus fella, I have often heard fans muttering his name "Jesus Christ!"

skybluepm2 · Dec 25, 2014

ccfc92 said:
What about on the pitch wise?

If we had of beat Villa, do we reckon we would have stayed up in the prem?

Would we have just delayed the inevitable? In all your opinions...?

We would've been down regardless '92. Derby won 0-1 at Old Trafford through Malcolm Christie so we were doomed.

The final home game against Bradford was a 0-0 at Highfield Road and arguably one of the most irrelevant matches I have ever attended. Nothing was riding on it but if it had, I'm not sure we would've won anyway.

skybluetony176 · Dec 25, 2014

Hobo said:
That Jesus fella, I have often heard fans muttering his name "Jesus Christ!"

If Man U had have put the same team out against Derby that they did against us a few weeks before(IIRC) we'd probably have stayed up.

skybluetony176 · Dec 25, 2014

skybluepm2 said:
We would've been down regardless '92. Derby won 0-1 at Old Trafford through Malcolm Christie so we were doomed.

The final home game against Bradford was a 0-0 at Highfield Road and arguably one of the most irrelevant matches I have ever attended. Nothing was riding on it but if it had, I'm not sure we would've won anyway.

Malcolm Christie who Derby signed from Nuneaton Borough I believe only after GS had turned him down.

SkyblueBazza · Dec 25, 2014

ccfc92 said:
Fair enough bit all before my time.

But was getting into Europe as big as now or...? Financial wise etc

It would at the time have bought in relatively great riches - additional match revenue for sell out crowd for a start...cemented some of the now missing thousands perhaps. In the grand scheme we may not be in the perilous position we now are. On the other hand the additional revenue has to be managed - & it's the lack of good management as a whole that has got us here anyway. The fall may have been even greater...like Leeds - European Cup Finalists once.

Gazolba · Dec 26, 2014

maddog said:
Been thinking of those crucial moments where it all went wrong for the City with decisions that were in the clubs control,not including the current SISU disaster.

The biggest mistake we made was being over-ambitious in building the Ricoh and thus overstretching ourselves financially. We should have forseen we would be relegated from the Premiership bearing in mind how many narrow escapes we had. This was what led to us being tenants at the Ricoh instead of partial owners.

rupert_bear · Dec 26, 2014

A number of reasons, the first was appointing Noel Cantwell to follow Jimmy Hill and not Malcolm Allison who was equally as flamboyant as Hill had "big" player contacts, where Cantwell was a rookie to management, Allison would have used the thousands on proper top level players, Cantwell squandered hundreds of thousands on players. It is often forgotten Cantwell spent on 7 high priced strikers in less than 3 seasons yet the 2 he got rid of Bobby Gould and John Tudor went on to star in the top division and score goals for a good few years. Then there was Derrick Robins massive dropped bollock not securing Brian Clough when we was on the hook in 1972 and the sale of Highfield Road the effects of which is surrounding us to this day

Covstu · Dec 26, 2014

maddog said:
Been thinking of those crucial moments where it all went wrong for the City with decisions that were in the clubs control,not including the current SISU disaster. Assuming the cup win in 1987 was the high point and it was more or less downhill from there. The chronology may be a bit off, but this is how I see it.
1) Allowing George Curtis to exit management and join the board.
2) Sacking Sillett and putting Butcher in charge.
3) Robbins being duped into selling his shares. Allegedly, he said he would never sell to Robinson, so Robinson used Richardson as a front.
4) Allowing Atkinson free reign to spend spend spend.
5) Selling Highfield Road.
6) Not buying John Hartson 3 months earlier.
7) Not realising Strachan had been at the club too long.
8) Sacking Eric Black and putting Peter Reid in charge.
I am sure there are plenty more, but it can mainly be considered that most of the really bad decisions were made during the Richardson/McGinnty/Robinson era.

Am I the only one that doesn't really get this whole Eric Black love in?? We played well for a short period but there was little evidence that this was going springboard us to greatness. Given his career history after leaving us, he hardly was a proven great manager was he?

The biggest area for me was the sale of HR to Richardson's company and then stretched ourselves financially for the Ricoh. At this stage we couldn't recover from the financial mess that these guys put us in and then relied on the council to bail us out at that stage....

skybluetony176 · Dec 26, 2014

Covstu said:
Am I the only one that doesn't really get this whole Eric Black love in?? We played well for a short period but there was little evidence that this was going springboard us to greatness. Given his career history after leaving us, he hardly was a proven great manager was he?
.

He's not alot different from Robbins in that respect although I'm not sure that EB has actually managed a team since. Pretty sure he's only been assistant.

One thing not in dispute though is that both were good for the club while they were here.

maddog · Dec 26, 2014

Covstu said:
Am I the only one that doesn't really get this whole Eric Black love in?? We played well for a short period but there was little evidence that this was going springboard us to greatness. Given his career history after leaving us, he hardly was a proven great manager was he?

The biggest area for me was the sale of HR to Richardson's company and then stretched ourselves financially for the Ricoh. At this stage we couldn't recover from the financial mess that these guys put us in and then relied on the council to bail us out at that stage....

I agree Black may not have gone on to achieve anything, but to sack him at that juncture was a bad decision. What was a disaster was appointing Reid, a classic name manager who was well past his sell by date at that time. Together the decisions were terrible. McGinnity made quite a few during his tenure. A director who had failed at West Brom, who got rid of him when they were looking likely to be relegated to Div3 ...sound familiar. I agree also the Richardson decision to move to the Ricoh without the finance was more crucial and probably the major one in our continuing decline.

rupert_bear · Dec 26, 2014

Covstu said:
Am I the only one that doesn't really get this whole Eric Black love in?? We played well for a short period but there was little evidence that this was going springboard us to greatness. Given his career history after leaving us, he hardly was a proven great manager was he?

The biggest area for me was the sale of HR to Richardson's company and then stretched ourselves financially for the Ricoh. At this stage we couldn't recover from the financial mess that these guys put us in and then relied on the council to bail us out at that stage....

No you are not. It is forgotten for some reason during Eric Blacks short reign at the helm we lost just as many as we won, including being dumped out of the FA Cup in the third round. It just seemed when we won it was by 4/5 or 6. What is also forgotten is at the time Peter Reid was seen by many as a positive appointment, had won promotions in the championship and led a decent Sunderland team up the Premier League, but admittedly proved useless here. I always wonder why Eric Black never, as far as I can remember ventured into team management, did he want it ?

WestEndAgro · Dec 26, 2014

Just want to through this one into the mix, i wonder where we would be now if the Ricoh had become the National Stadium rather than rebuilding Wembley, could it have been the catalyst for something big ? I'm certain we wouldn't be in this current state and non of us would ever of heard of that four letter word "SISU"

Sky_Blue_Daz · Dec 27, 2014

My dad is adamant that Robbins not giving Jimmy hill a 10year contract was the biggest mistake in the clubs history
Personally I think not sacking strachan immediately after relagation

Gazolba · Dec 27, 2014

Sky_Blue_Daz said:
My dad is adamant that Robbins not giving Jimmy hill a 10year contract was the biggest mistake in the clubs history

Jimmy Hill never wanted to stay. He knew getting us into the Prem was the limit for CCFC and he wanted to go into TV.

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