When did the rent start getting discussed (3 Viewers)

James Smith · Aug 15, 2013

shmmeee said:
Cheers, have you got the link if its not too much trouble?

Edit: found Q&A.

One interesting tidbit already: Does your team have the authority to agree a deal? CCFC: As long as it makes the club cash flow zero next season.

What the hell sort of deal would do that?

One where the freehold is handed over for nowt?
Or one where the F&B revenues more than matched the rent I guess.

stupot07 · Aug 15, 2013

lordsummerisle said:
He seemed to think that the club was bringing around £17million a year as well, whilst also forgetting the £10,000 a game costs the club had to pay.

A year before this he was sounding out Rugby teams and the sponsors in case we moved out because of increasingly difficult rent rows.

Not sure where we were supposed to be getting £17m income from....

stupot07 · Aug 15, 2013

James Smith said:
This is the sliding scale quote I was thinking of and contains at least one of the quotes Godiva posted.

We have no idea what at sliding scale was.

Could have been £1.2m championship, £1m league one, £800k league two, £2m premier league for all we know

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 15, 2013

Here you go, EGM 2006. They packed a lot into 3 minutes!

The report had revealed that the club are in talks with the Arena Company, which owns the new stadium, with a view to lowering the £1 million rent to £500,000 while they are in the Championship and rising to £1.5m if and when the club gain promotion.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/money-not-in-question-3125808

James Smith · Aug 15, 2013

stupot07 said:
We have no idea what at sliding scale was.

Could have been £1.2m championship, £1m league one, £800k league two, £2m premier league for all we know

True!

Sky Blue Pete · Aug 15, 2013

RFC said:
Rent was set far to high way back in 2003 (I'm informed under duress), two years before we moved into the Ricoh!
The average club in the First Division are paying between £150,000 & £170,000, WE'VE BEEN OVER-PAYING for far too many years. So whose at fault?
The Owners - YES, CCC - YES
and ACL - YES but our current situation is totally down to ACL IMHO and who instructs them what to do, you've guessed it
COVENTRY CITY COUNCIL!!!!!!!!

But you are completely biased so your opinion doesn't count

Grendel · Aug 15, 2013

Sky Blue Pete said:
But you are completely biased so your opinion doesn't count

So is the OP's but I assume his does?

Sky Blue Pete · Aug 15, 2013

Grendel said:
So is the OP's but I assume his does?

Interesting how helpful acl come across in the historical notes Grendel

shmmeee · Aug 16, 2013

Grendel said:
So is the OP's but I assume his does?

Believe it or not my bias is simply the find out what happened/is happening for my own curiosity. Though I feel strongly Sisu are to blame in the current mess, my opinion has changed massively as new information came to light.

Regarding the 2006 EGM, I'd like to see what ACL/PWKH say about that. Obviously discussions came to nothing, I wonder why. They say in the Q&A that there were "light touch" discussions with Sisu reps prior to Fisher arriving, Id like to know more about that too.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 16, 2013

shmmeee said:
Regarding the 2006 EGM, I'd like to see what ACL/PWKH say about that. Obviously discussions came to nothing, I wonder why. They say in the Q&A that there were "light touch" discussions with Sisu reps prior to Fisher arriving, Id like to know more about that too.

The quote from PWKH is on this thread, that Robinson made 'half hearted' attempts to renegotiate.

I'll resist from commenting, as that could be interpreted many ways

here we go:

"Way back when, when McGinnity was Chairman, the late Sir Derek Higgs proposed a new rent structure. He was director of CCFC and ACL. His rent proposal was to have a base rent set for each League with increases linked to attendance. McGinnity and Hover, then Chief Executive of CCFC, rejected this outright as although there were reductions for Championship, League One etc, there would have been an increase in the base in the Premiership.
Robinson made some half-hearted attempts to open a discussion on rent but he too would not accept anything like the Higgs proposal."

Set against the EGM comment, it shows the wonders of perspective and how everything is filtered through a prism.

James Smith · Aug 16, 2013

shmmeee said:
Believe it or not my bias is simply the find out what happened/is happening for my own curiosity. Though I feel strongly Sisu are to blame in the current mess, my opinion has changed massively as new information came to light.

Regarding the 2006 EGM, I'd like to see what ACL/PWKH say about that. Obviously discussions came to nothing, I wonder why. They say in the Q&A that there were "light touch" discussions with Sisu reps prior to Fisher arriving, Id like to know more about that too.

I seem to recall seeing the ACL accounts on DueDil and I think they made serious losses in their first year at least which might explain why they couldn't afford to drop the rent. However I would be interested to know if there was any official reason we could be given for this.

shmmeee · Aug 16, 2013

James Smith said:
I seem to recall seeing the ACL accounts on DueDil and I think they made serious losses in their first year at least which might explain why they couldn't afford to drop the rent. However I would be interested to know if there was any official reason we could be given for this.

That would tally with Muttons comments last year that (paraphrasing) "now ACL are making money, if that's sustainable, we can look at offering the club reduced rent."

@NW: that's a bit too fluffy for me. The EGM shows suggested figures, were they the clubs starting point? The current suggestion? ACLs demand?

If its what the club were looking for and ACL didn't accept then that changes things a bit in my mind. PWKH suggests the board at the time didn't want a sliding scale originally offered, but the EGM suggests they came back asking for it. Was Robinson asking for improved terms from the original deal and ACL stuck tight, or did ACL up the ante?

One things for sure, at that point both sides knew the real figures from a season and not projections. Maybe both realised as soon as that the deal wasn't working and both wanted improved terms?

Regardless, the club should have tried harder IMO. Though anything is halfhearted compared to a Sisu effort.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 16, 2013

shmmeee said:
@NW: that's a bit too fluffy for me. The EGM shows suggested figures, were they the clubs starting point? The current suggestion? ACLs demand?

If its what the club were looking for and ACL didn't accept then that changes things a bit in my mind. PWKH suggests the board at the time didn't want a sliding scale originally offered, but the EGM suggests they came back asking for it. Was Robinson asking for improved terms from the original deal and ACL stuck tight, or did ACL up the ante?

Yeah, as I said it can be interpreted in many ways.

My concern is Robinson isn't the easiest character to follow a train of thought (being charitable) but it is slightly concerning more than one party from the club tried, and there being no result or shift in a rent. You'd assume somewhere if the club tried, even in a half-hearted way, if the will was there to move, some movement would have been made. As a trend, it isn't a positive trend... I can well believe a deal is unable to be agreed for nothing more than two businesses with two needs to run as profitably as possible (or minimising losses!) but that's the crux of the entire problem anyway.

Regardless, the club should have tried harder IMO. Though anything is halfhearted compared to a Sisu effort.

Indeed. it follows along the lines that you should be careful what you wish for, as it certainly isn't half-hearted now...

shmmeee · Aug 16, 2013

Found this old interview with McGinnity back when there was a giant jaguar planned for the roof of the arena.

http://m.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/180644

Doesn't this sound familiar, just add some jargon about business cycles.

He also said that at the moment, the club owns nothing, earns nothing, is in over 20m debt and plays in the Championship hardly an attractive offer however, in a few years, hopefully the club will have reduced some debt, will have a stadium and will hopefully be in the Premiership much more attractive reading.

Just up the debt and drop the divisions.

Deleted member 5849 · Aug 16, 2013

shmmeee said:
Found this old interview with McGinnity back when there was a giant jaguar planned for the roof of the arena.

http://m.coventrycity-mad.co.uk/news/180644

Doesn't this sound familiar, just add some jargon about business cycles.

Just up the debt and drop the divisions.

Yeah, it's been the concern ever since we sold everything though, how do you turn around such a basket case that owns nothing?

Frankly, the only way is spunk some cash at it and hope for a lucky promotion.

But without that promotion, you're in the same position, a club that owns nothing, and has no way of trading its way out of trouble in a 'normal' fashion.

To an extent the level of debt is utterly irrelevant, we have nothing worth owning beyond a 'brand' and the vague sporting hope that a bit of spunking of cash *might* work.

And that's not a healthy position to be in, and is also a position that leaves you vulnerable to only being of interest to speculators.

Godiva · Aug 16, 2013

Another thing I have forgotten all about:

At some point before the club entered into administration ACL got the courts permission to claim the money in ccfcL's bank account at a given date. What happened? Did ACL actually get any money then or were the account empty?

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