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What's up with Ben Sheaf? (1 Viewer)

  • Thread starter mark82
  • Start date Jan 1, 2025
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Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #141
AJB1983 said:
have to say though, if he’s not been 100% fit this season then it’s not totally fair to criticise too much.
Click to expand...
Will he ever be 100% or has he got to a stage where his body is letting him down a bit.
 

Mr Panda

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #142
Evo1883 said:

This you Earlsdon
Click to expand...

It’s an interesting stat, but you can’t take it in isolation as proof that he’s the reason we’re more successful without him.

  • Were there other players missing from the team in those games that could have influenced the results?
  • Does our play style change in his absence, possibly suiting a greater number of players? For instance, our recent success seems to have come as we’ve taken a more direct approach.
  • What’s the context of those games? Were they against stronger or weaker opponents?
He’s a good player at this level, and coaches will continue to utilise him. Don’t think Lampard or Robins before him would have cared much if this stat was presented to them

Didn’t Gareth Bale once have stat at Tottenham, where he went a long time without even being on a winning team?

There definitely needs to be a question of how we instruct and use Sheaf given our current run of form, as I agree this season in particular he’s slowing things down and it’s not suiting us, we’re not yet an effective possession team. Is this because it’s what Sheaf does or is he told to do this? If we’ve landed on this current, more direct system then let’s see how he can adapt to it.
 
Reactions: duffer and Evo1883

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #143
Mr Panda said:
It’s an interesting stat, but you can’t take it in isolation as proof that he’s the reason we’re more successful without him.

  • Were there other players missing from the team in those games that could have influenced the results?
  • Does our play style change in his absence, possibly suiting a greater number of players? For instance, our recent success seems to have come as we’ve taken a more direct approach.
  • What’s the context of those games? Were they against stronger or weaker opponents?
He’s a good player at this level, and coaches will continue to utilise him. Don’t think Lampard or Robins before him would have cared much if this stat was presented to them

Didn’t Gareth Bale once have stat at Tottenham, where he went a long time without even being on a winning team?

There definitely needs to be a question of how we instruct and use Sheaf given our current run of form, as I agree this season in particular he’s slowing things down and it’s not suiting us, we’re not yet an effective possession team. Is this because it’s what Sheaf does or is he told to do this? If we’ve landed on this current, more direct system then let’s see how he can adapt to it.
Click to expand...

Last two seasons until about four games ago we’ve tried to be a possession team instead of counter attacking (with Gus/Vik) or direct (Lampard recently), we’ve changed that this time with Sheaf out and people think he was demanding everyone play sideways or something.
 

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #144
Mr Panda said:
It’s an interesting stat, but you can’t take it in isolation as proof that he’s the reason we’re more successful without him.

  • Were there other players missing from the team in those games that could have influenced the results?
  • Does our play style change in his absence, possibly suiting a greater number of players? For instance, our recent success seems to have come as we’ve taken a more direct approach.
  • What’s the context of those games? Were they against stronger or weaker opponents?
He’s a good player at this level, and coaches will continue to utilise him. Don’t think Lampard or Robins before him would have cared much if this stat was presented to them

Didn’t Gareth Bale once have stat at Tottenham, where he went a long time without even being on a winning team?

There definitely needs to be a question of how we instruct and use Sheaf given our current run of form, as I agree this season in particular he’s slowing things down and it’s not suiting us, we’re not yet an effective possession team. Is this because it’s what Sheaf does or is he told to do this? If we’ve landed on this current, more direct system then let’s see how he can adapt to it.
Click to expand...

I don't care who is in or out of the team.

This is what my eyes tell me:

Sheaf is a great DM who can pick a pass.
When we try and play out through him as a play maker it fails. He slows our tempo down and doesn't get us forward. If anything we go backwards into our penalty area with the opposition press on.

He is a great DM but a below par playmaker. Let's just accept him for what he is and play to his strengths and not his weaknesses.
 
Reactions: duffer and Viktor17
W

walkingalongsingingasong

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #145
Sheaf to us is like Luke Shaw is to Man United. Good but regularly broken and about as fragile as glass.

He’s good but let’s move him on this summer and get someone who can play regularly throughout a season.
 
Reactions: Bad Boy and Chicken Mcgraw
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #146
shmmeee said:
Don’t make me get Philosoraptors graphs out.
Click to expand...
You know they're coming!
 

higgs

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #147
Time to move him on actually last summer was the time he needs a fresh start

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Boicey
B

Bigelvesy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #148
Evo1883 said:

This you Earlsdon
Click to expand...
CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION
 
S

SkyBlueMatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 27, 2025
  • #149
AJB1983 said:
I’m not surprised at those stats to be fair - I’ve thought this recently.

We play quicker without sheaf and it’s given Torp a bit more freedom - Allen’s energy in the middle though has been a big help.

It’s obvious when he plays everyone looks for him and for every play to go through him - I liken it to when we had Gary Macallister. Everything slows down.

.
Click to expand...

This is what I've read time and time again from Swansea fans about Grimey. That everything goes through him, he slows the play down and passes backwards/sidewards too much. That's from posts pre January too.

I think nearly every club in the Championship would want Sheaf.

The win ratio stats are surprising but I still think we are better with him than without. I'm not convinced with him as captain but the break might actually help him.

When you're playing poorly there is more pressure on players like Sheaf & Grimey. When it's not working on the pitch, no one is willing (not confident) to take responsibility.

We have one of England's best midfielders as manager, I'm sure he can get a tune out of both of them.


Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #150
AJB1983 said:
We play quicker without sheaf and it’s given Torp a bit more freedom - Allen’s energy in the middle though has been a big help.
Click to expand...
Sheaf & Torp have only ever started a handful of games together. It's a shame really, we've never seen the best of them together.
 
Reactions: stupot07 and Jamesimus

Mr Panda

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #151
There's a lot of mention about Sheaf and Grimes slowing things down from both sets of fans. It's worth mentioning that this is needed in a game of football, the best players just know when to dial it up or dial it down.

As good as Allen has been over the last few games with moving things forward, there will come a time against better teams in this division where you need someone to put their foot on the ball and amidst the chaos of a high press - no disrespect to him but this is where he will be lacking
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1, Jamesimus, shmmeee and 2 others

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #152
So to recap we’re hoping for someone with the passing range of Hamer, the class of Sheaf, the energy of Allen and the set pieces of Torp and Rudoni

No pressure Matt.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #153
Frostie said:
Sheaf & Torp have only ever started a handful of games together. It's a shame really, we've never seen the best of them together.
Click to expand...

Sheaf set Torp up for his debut goal
 
Reactions: stupot07 and Frostie
N

napolimp

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #154
Sheaf is a phenomenal midfielder at this level. I'd like to see his injury carefully managed for the remainder of the season, and go again in August at full fitness. Unless of course someone offers stupid money. No interest in having him leave for sub 10 mil.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #155
Hobo said:
I don't care who is in or out of the team.

This is what my eyes tell me:

Sheaf is a great DM who can pick a pass.
When we try and play out through him as a play maker it fails. He slows our tempo down and doesn't get us forward. If anything we go backwards into our penalty area with the opposition press on.

He is a great DM but a below par playmaker. Let's just accept him for what he is and play to his strengths and not his weaknesses.
Click to expand...

He's a great DM who can pick a pass but we can't play through him because he slows us down and we can't go forward.

Surely that means he can't pick a pass?
 

Chicken Mcgraw

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #156
You lot complaining about Sheaf ‘slowing us down’ are in for a real shock with Grimes.
 

Jamesimus

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #157
Chicken Mcgraw said:
You lot complaining about Sheaf ‘slowing us down’ are in for a real shock with Grimes.
Click to expand...

It’s a fair comment my feathered friend.

I think Sheaf and Grimes are quite similar midfielders and I’d be surprised if they start many games together and it works. I’d like to be wrong on this.

It’s one of the reasons when I heard this rumour I assumed Sheaf was on his way out!
 
Reactions: Chicken Mcgraw

False9

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #158
fernandopartridge said:
Sheaf set Torp up for his debut goal
Click to expand...

Oh yea he really made that goal
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #159
False9 said:
Oh yea he really made that goal
Click to expand...

It was an assist Sheffield Wednesday vs. Coventry City Match Report – Friday January 26, 2024 | FBref.com
 

False9

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #160
fernandopartridge said:
It was an assist Sheffield Wednesday vs. Coventry City Match Report – Friday January 26, 2024 | FBref.com
Click to expand...


Yea it was an assist on paper but he had nothing to do with the goal
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #161
Nick said:
He's a great DM who can pick a pass but we can't play through him because he slows us down and we can't go forward.

Surely that means he can't pick a pass?
Click to expand...

He can't do it consistently enough for a playmaker. Lots of players can make good passes during a game it doesn't make them a playmaker.

A playmaker really dictates the pattern of play and gets you on the front foot.. Sheaf doesn't.
 
Reactions: Chicken Mcgraw

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #162
False9 said:
Yea it was an assist on paper but he had nothing to do with the goal
Click to expand...
Yes, Torp would have got the ball in space in that shooting position without Sheaf having made the pass to him.
 

Mr Panda

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #163
Hobo said:
He can't do it consistently enough for a playmaker. Lots of players can make good passes during a game it doesn't make them a playmaker.

A playmaker really dictates the pattern of play and gets you on the front foot.. Sheaf doesn't.
Click to expand...

Stats for seasons gone by suggest he's quite a progressive passer. Could it be perhaps that this season he just hasn't had much of offer ahead of him?

Not that I see him as someone who should carry the playmaker title anyway, playmaker for me is more like Hamer, Torp...the higher risk players.
 
Reactions: shmmeee, Earlsdon_Skyblue1 and SkyBlueOz

Hobo

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 28, 2025
  • #164
Mr Panda said:
Stats for seasons gone by suggest he's quite a progressive passer. Could it be perhaps that this season he just hasn't had much of offer ahead of him?

Not that I see him as someone who should carry the playmaker title anyway, playmaker for me is more like Hamer, Torp...the higher risk players.
Click to expand...

The problem is he has missed Hamers creativity. At the start of this season Torp wasn't up to speed. Torp has come into his own in recent weeks while Sheaf has been out injured

Earlier this season we were trying to use Sheaf as the player maker and it just didn't suit him. He struggled even more once teams started sitting a man on him.

Those are my observations anyway.
 
Reactions: shmmeee
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