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What the fuck has happened to England (2 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Kieranp96
  • Start date Jun 14, 2022
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Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #386
The worst thing about it is ... there was an element of luck in the way the ball bounced for Italys equaliser too
 
Reactions: Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #387
Evo1883 said:
We took the lead early on and then were second best for most of the rest of the game and never had another shot on target in normal time .

We literally tried to defend a lead for an entire match
Click to expand...

I just watched the highlights on YouTube, doesn't mean a lot I know, but I'm traumatized again now.

As you say, it shouldn't have got that far, but Pickford did so well in the penalty shootout and so many of our players bottled it when it was their turn. Unforgivable.
 
Reactions: Ian1779 and Evo1883

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #388
Deleted member 5849 said:
I often wonder how previous tournament defeats on penalties or dodgy goals (Seaman v Brazil) are seen as unlucky, but Southgate's are seen as lucky to be there at all, and he cost us the win. Why can't he be unlucky too, if we're applying the same standards?

Take Italia 90, we were lucky to be in the semi-finals at all. Poor in the groups, scraped through a bit fortunately against Belgium, struggled to beat a Cameroon side who weren't all that really and were a tremendous draw for us really.

if we're holding Southgate standards elsewhere, Italia 90 was a terrible failure as we really weren't very good apart from in two games - one of which happened to be the semi-final.

Of course to say that would be a nonsense, wouldn't it!
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Precisely this. History will look favourably on Southgate and the slander needs to stop.

Earlier in the thread, people gave Capello a free pass for finishing second in a charitable Group and A relatively charitable route to a semi final.

The bottom line is this: before Southgate, we left tournaments early and usually in embarrassing circumstances. Now, other nations respect the threat of England.

Our squad is good, but how much of our team would get into the 2002-2010 teams? Prime Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell? For example, Stones and Maguire are good players but they aren’t on that level.

Our squads in 2018 and 2021 were some of the youngest squads at the tournaments. Of course they’re going to struggle with game management compared to other, more experienced teams.
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 17, 2022
  • #389
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Precisely this. History will look favourably on Southgate and the slander needs to stop.

Earlier in the thread, people gave Capello a free pass for finishing second in a charitable Group and A relatively charitable route to a semi final.

The bottom line is this: before Southgate, we left tournaments early and usually in embarrassing circumstances. Now, other nations respect the threat of England.

Our squad is good, but how much of our team would get into the 2002-2010 teams? Prime Rooney, Owen, Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Ashley Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell? For example, Stones and Maguire are good players but they aren’t on that level.

Our squads in 2018 and 2021 were some of the youngest squads at the tournaments. Of course they’re going to struggle with game management compared to other, more experienced teams.
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The Southgate love in is pathetic. He was shit at club level and we just lost 4-0 at home to the mighty Hungary. He played Mount in one game ahead of Grealish because he offers more defensively so Southgate even wants his attackers to be defensive.
He’s a fraud of a manager and a yes man to the FA. And why does he select about 28 right backs in every fucking squad, he’s clueless
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #390
No place for Maddison again but he finds space for the hopelessly out of form Mount and Phillips who you can’t say he is out of form as he rarely gets a game.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #391
Terry Gibson's perm said:
No place for Maddison again but he finds space for the hopelessly out of form Mount and Phillips who you can’t say he is out of form as he rarely gets a game.
Click to expand...
True. Glad Ivan Toney has been given a chance though .
 
Reactions: no_loyalty, Terry Gibson's perm and Earlsdon_Skyblue1

SKYBLUES90

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #392
Got to feel for Maddison, it’s clear at this point Southgate has an issue with him. No way mount gets in in front of him.
 
Reactions: Terry Gibson's perm

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #393
SKYBLUES90 said:
Got to feel for Maddison, it’s clear at this point Southgate has an issue with him. No way mount gets in in front of him.
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As I have said before, along with a number of others, I just don't get Mount's inclusion. He seems to offer very little at international level for England.
 
Reactions: oscillatewildly

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #394
SKYBLUES90 said:
Got to feel for Maddison, it’s clear at this point Southgate has an issue with him. No way mount gets in in front of him.
Click to expand...

Did you see the Leicester v Brighton game?
Brighton targeted him & he just constantly coughed up possession & dawdled around making no attempt to retrieve the situation.
Ended up being bellowed at by his teammates. Every player can have off days but that's certainly not the way to play yourself into the England squad.

Mount has had a disappointing start to the season but who hasn't at Chelsea? Whether you like him or not he's far more trustworthy.
 
C

CovBrummie94

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #395
Coady, Maguire, Shaw, Phillips, Bowen, Grealish all very lucky to be in the squad
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #396
Clearly not picked on form.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #397
Frostie said:
Did you see the Leicester v Brighton game?
Brighton targeted him & he just constantly coughed up possession & dawdled around making no attempt to retrieve the situation.
Ended up being bellowed at by his teammates. Every player can have off days but that's certainly not the way to play yourself into the England squad.

Mount has had a disappointing start to the season but who hasn't at Chelsea? Whether you like him or not he's far more trustworthy.
Click to expand...

He’d pick Mount regardless because he fits the ultra defensive mindset. Don’t forget we shipped 4 to Hungary because we weren’t defensive enough.
 
Reactions: stupot07

rob9872

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #398
I have no issue with Mount playing if Rice was the only holding MF, but he insists on Rice, & Henderson and then still plays Mount. Far too negative when our key players (imo) are people like Foden, Saka, Bellingham & Sancho.

The issue with Maddison I guess is that we have so many midfielders already tried and tested too, people like Ward-Prowse, Phillips, Grealish Gallacher, Smith-Rowe Loftus-Cheek in addition to those already mentioned. In fact even people like Willock & the Ox probably ahead of him too in Southgate's mind. We have so many options but up front we only really have Kane or Sterling. Less options up front and I think it's too soon for Toney, and not sure Rashford is right which only leaves Kane or Sterling really.
 

stay_up_skyblues

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #399
Maddison dropped himself with his casino antics after being excused from England duty for illness didn’t he? Gave Southgate (who I don’t think rates him) an excuse not to pick him regardless of form.
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #400
rob9872 said:
I have no issue with Mount playing if Rice was the only holding MF, but he insists on Rice, & Henderson and then still plays Mount. Far too negative when our key players (imo) are people like Foden, Saka, Bellingham & Sancho.
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Probably some truth to that but I can see why.
If you look at teams that win major international tournaments in recent years they are nearly always built on strong defences, we don't have that so he tries to shore it up by the tactics & personnel he implements.

Playing Phillips with Rice, whilst not exciting, has worked well (Not Henderson though, he's completely shot now & should never play for England again imo). This enables us to get the best out of the likes of Maguire as we're using him in a system he's comfortable with unlike at United where he's horribly exposed.

Our talent pool is so imbalanced that we're absolutely stacked in the 10 & wide attacking areas but woefully short elsewhere so sacrifices need to be made. Unfortunately you can't just throw your most talented XI on to the pitch & expect them to win, just won't happen.

Also re: Mount. I don't think people dislike Mount for who he is but for who he isn't.
He's back to back Chelsea POTY & puts up great numbers usually but they will always clamour for more exciting players like Maddison, Grealish etc. who in truth are nowhere near as effective in a team game.
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #401
Frostie said:
Probably some truth to that but I can see why.
If you look at teams that win major international tournaments in recent years they are nearly always built on strong defences, we don't have that so he tries to shore it up by the tactics & personnel he implements.

Playing Phillips with Rice, whilst not exciting, has worked well (Not Henderson though, he's completely shot now & should never play for England again imo). This enables us to get the best out of the likes of Maguire as we're using him in a system he's comfortable with unlike at United where he's horribly exposed.

Our talent pool is so imbalanced that we're absolutely stacked in the 10 & wide attacking areas but woefully short elsewhere so sacrifices need to be made. Unfortunately you can't just throw your most talented XI on to the pitch & expect them to win, just won't happen.

Also re: Mount. I don't think people dislike Mount for who he is but for who he isn't.
He's back to back Chelsea POTY & puts up great numbers usually but they will always clamour for more exciting players like Maddison, Grealish etc. who in truth are nowhere near as effective in a team game.
Click to expand...

All that happens in trying to do that is the attacking threat becomes stifled and the defence remains prone to gaffes. Play to your strengths, and if we have a collection of brilliant attacking talent, a few decent wing backs, mediocre centre backs and an unpredictable keeper then accept that and allow the flair players more freedom.

Nothing highlights it better than the Euro final, we actually went for Italy's throat and they had no answer. Then reverted to type and invited needless amounts of pressure for an entire half.
 

Frostie

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 15, 2022
  • #402
Brighton Sky Blue said:
All that happens in trying to do that is the attacking threat becomes stifled and the defence remains prone to gaffes. Play to your strengths, and if we have a collection of brilliant attacking talent, a few decent wing backs, mediocre centre backs and an unpredictable keeper then accept that and allow the flair players more freedom.

Nothing highlights it better than the Euro final, we actually went for Italy's throat and they had no answer. Then reverted to type and invited needless amounts of pressure for an entire half.
Click to expand...

Agree. I have always said I don't particularly rate Southgate tactically. I totally get what he's trying to achieve but he often gets the balance all wrong.
 

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #403
Italy at over 2/1 at home against an England side whose likely centre back pairing is Maguire and Dier.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #404
LastGarrison said:
Italy at over 2/1 at home against an England side whose likely centre back pairing is Maguire and Dier.
Click to expand...

Has Maguire even played for Man Utd since the first few games?
 

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #405
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Has Maguire even played for Man Utd since the first few games?
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Don’t think he’s started any.
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #406
LastGarrison said:
Don’t think he’s started any.
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Maybe one of the Europa League games
 

SomersetSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #407
LastGarrison said:
Italy at over 2/1 at home against an England side whose likely centre back pairing is Maguire and Dier.
Click to expand...
Italy double chance 8/15 nailed on money.
1-1 draw written all over it!!
 

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #408
It’sabatch87 said:
Italy double chance 8/15 nailed on money.
1-1 draw written all over it!!
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what my mate said!! He also said the ref is card happy so gonna have a little dabble in that market as well.

Definitely seems to be a bit of value.
 
Reactions: SomersetSB

SomersetSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #409
LastGarrison said:
That’s exactly what my mate said!! He also said the ref is card happy so gonna have a little dabble in that market as well.

Definitely seems to be a bit of value.
Click to expand...
We’ve not a great record in Italy, we do like a draw with them though. That’s my call but obviously hope they prove me wrong.
Just done both teams 2+ cards@ 11/8
and also draw and under 2.5 goals@ 13/5.
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #410
Italians missing a few of their best players. Tonali, Veratti and Immobile
 
Last edited: Sep 23, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #411
That woman singing the national anthems is freaking me out.
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #412
That home shirt is fucking hideous
 
Reactions: GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee, Greggs and chiefdave

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #413
Started where we let off, then.
 
Reactions: Brighton Sky Blue

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #414
SlowerThanPlatt said:
That home shirt is fucking hideous
Click to expand...
how can you get a plain white shirt so badly wrong
 

SomersetSB

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #415
I quite liked that ladies shirt from the euros, 100 times better than the mens!!
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #416
this is shit
 

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #417
David O'Day said:
this is shit
Click to expand...

Gets my vote. Commentators talking about players that won't pass forward (Maddison?)
Can't believe Maguire is still playing. Dier ? Sterling has been awful first 20 mins.

Edit: Saka crap game so far (doesn't usually play where Southgate has picked him - surprise)
 
Last edited: Sep 23, 2022

lifeskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #418
We lucky Italy poor in final third otherwise we could be 2down already.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Johnnythespider

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #419
Foden trying to inject some pace into our play, the rest are like "don't think so Phil, Gareth wouldn't like it"
 

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Sep 23, 2022
  • #420
I genuinely don't know what they are trying to do at times. So ponderous.
 
Reactions: Paul Anthony
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