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What the fuck has happened to England (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Kieranp96
  • Start date Jun 14, 2022
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #316
I'm feeling like I should be guilty in being pleased that for once in my life, an England side has been competing to actually win things.

Clearly, I should be miserable and depressed about that fact, as we didn't do it in enough style!
 
Reactions: Liquid Gold, rondog1973, Deleted member 9744 and 1 other person

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #317
Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm feeling like I should be guilty in being pleased that for once in my life, an England side has been competing to actually win things.

Clearly, I should be miserable and depressed about that fact, as we didn't do it in enough style!
Click to expand...
You are a City supporter. You should be used to it by now.
 

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #318
Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm feeling like I should be guilty in being pleased that for once in my life, an England side has been competing to actually win things.

Clearly, I should be miserable and depressed about that fact, as we didn't do it in enough style!
Click to expand...

Last two tournaments have been some of the most enjoyable ones I've seen following England. Southgate's got plenty of faults but bless him for giving us something after that previous decade of rank misery in particular
 
Reactions: CJ_covblaze, CCFCSteve, Otis and 1 other person

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #319
the world cup was great as it had none of the expectations that people normally place on england
 
Reactions: rondog1973

1ccfc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #320
David O'Day said:
It's a friendly that the players don't give a fuck about and shouldn't be playing
Click to expand...
Surly every time you're representing your country you should care? If you are right in what you say, it's a shame the Hungarian players weren't on the same page as they seemed to care.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #321
Otis said:
You are a City supporter. You should be used to it by now.
Click to expand...
Thing is, I love the way we play at city atm. That style also gives Robins more leeway ref: results I feel, if they dip. Southgate's way doesn't really give much leeway in terms of results, but people appear to want to demand we win, and do it in some kind of superattacking style that doesn't need to cover Maguire & co.

And that's fine if you're Brazil, and are used to winning things with flair and panache. We're used to blundering around in qualifying tournaments and having mediocre campaigns if we get there, so from that base - going far in them is an immense achievement. Sure, say we were shit last night, but to piss on everything that's gone before just because of some naive view that we can bully everyone aside (and let's not forget that Erikssen tried to shoehorn the flair players in, when he'd have probably been better picking for a system - I liked Erikssen's period btw, unlucky in many respects, but we've done better now than then anyway, without a defender of the calibre of Ferdinand and Campbell in sight) is frankly ludicrous.

So, if we do poorly at the world cup, the manager goes, but I'm not going to start blundering around because somehow I get upset that at the end of the season, when players probably don't give a shit and would rather be spit roasting a Love Island contestant or two, that somehow a full list of ah buts can be brought out to run down results in major tournaments that just haven't happened before. That is irrefutable, it's a simple FACT, and there's no but about it.
 
Reactions: Otis

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #322
David O'Day said:
Was that ex sky blue trust CJ that was on Sky Sports News?
Click to expand...

Probably handing over a list of names of all the fans who he thinks misbehaved to the media.
 
Reactions: Ian1779, Evo1883 and fernandopartridge
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #323
Evo1883 said:
So it's everybody else's fault .. wow , this is a man that basically relegated middlesborough
Click to expand...
Yes it’s a collective mess with the coaches and manager.
 

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #324
David O'Day said:
Was that ex sky blue trust CJ that was on Sky Sports News?
Click to expand...

 

SkyBlueSoul

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #325
Feels like an appropriate time to bring this gem back

 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Kieranp96

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #326
SlowerThanPlatt said:
Click to expand...
Came across quite well I thought.

Bottom line is, getting rid of Southgate now is not a good move. It should have happened earlier if it was to have happened.

Isn't it now just three games to go before the World Cup? Pointless to bring anyone else in.

Southgate does need a long hard look at himself though.
 
Reactions: CJ_covblaze
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #327
CCFC54321 said:
Yes it’s a collective mess with the coaches and manager.
Click to expand...

It’s the coaching staff
It’s the tiredness
It’s a meaningless friendly
It’s ok we made a final and lost
It was because there were too many attacking players in the team

Just excuses really. We have played unattractive and defensive football for years under Southgate. Saying it’s fine because of the results and he’s a nice bloke is all well and good until the unambitious football catches up and the results turn. Cue people saying

What do you want 0-0-10
Kevin Keegan isn’t who we need
We won’t get anyone better than a guy who sank Middlesbrough/is the most woke in our history
 
Reactions: stupot07 and mr_monkey
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #328
Otis said:
Came across quite well I thought.

Bottom line is, getting rid of Southgate now is not a good move. It should have happened earlier if it was to have happened.

Isn't it now just three games to go before the World Cup? Pointless to bring anyone else in.

Southgate does need a long hard look at himself though.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Though it’s always prudent to have a few options in mind
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #329
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It’s the coaching staff
It’s the tiredness
It’s a meaningless friendly
It’s ok we made a final and lost
It was because there were too many attacking players in the team

Just excuses really. We have played unattractive and defensive football for years under Southgate. Saying it’s fine because of the results and he’s a nice bloke is all well and good until the unambitious football catches up and the results turn. Cue people saying

What do you want 0-0-10
Kevin Keegan isn’t who we need
We won’t get anyone better than a guy who sank Middlesbrough/is the most woke in our history
Click to expand...
I would say it was a mixture of tiredness and the wrong team selection.

I thought Gallagher and Bowen both struggled, as did Philips, who just got swamped in midfield and doesn't possess the nous or skill to counter that. Bellingham clearly showed he does have through his trickery.

Forget about the meaningless friendly. We still should have turned up.

I was not at all in favour of employing Southgate, but he's here and we are stuck with him.

He has got us to a semi-final and final though of major competitions. That is an undeniable fact.

I think we are capable of more, but it is what it is and we have to cross our fingers and hope Southgate turns this current bad run around asap.

I would take defeats against Germany and Italy in the next two games as long as we put in a decent performance and show some promise.
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #330
David O'Day said:
Why would he? The England job is nothing compared to a big club job.

Once again you prove yourself to be a crayon eater
Click to expand...
Crayon eater, that’s a bit rich coming from an alcoholic IRA sympathiser
 
Reactions: Grendel
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #331
Otis said:
I would say it was a mixture of tiredness and the wrong team selection.

I thought Gallagher and Bowen both struggled, as did Philips, who just got swamped in midfield and doesn't possess the nous or skill to counter that. Bellingham clearly showed he does have through his trickery.

Forget about the meaningless friendly. We still should have turned up.

I was not at all in favour of employing Southgate, but he's here and we are stuck with him.

He has got us to a semi-final and final though of major competitions. That is an undeniable fact.

I think we are capable of more, but it is what it is and we have to cross our fingers and hope Southgate turns this current bad run around asap.

I would take defeats against Germany and Italy in the next two games as long as we put in a decent performance and show some promise.
Click to expand...

It was just that bottom of the table Championship midfielder that was too much to handle. As Southgate said the problem was too many attacking players on the pitch. We could have used another centre back, another holding midfielder and probably another keeper
 

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #332
procdoc said:
Crayon eater, that’s a bit rich coming from an alcoholic IRA sympathiser
Click to expand...
get your own shite jokes and stop playing up to a 5ft tramp who pretends he worked for jlr
 
Reactions: procdoc
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #333
David O'Day said:
get your own shite jokes and stop playing up to a 5ft tramp who pretends he worked for jlr
Click to expand...

Speaking of which what’s your trade?
 
Reactions: Grendel

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #334
Yea CJ spoke sense tbh
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #335
David O'Day said:
get your own shite jokes and stop playing up to a 5ft tramp who pretends he worked for jlr
Click to expand...
What do you do for a living? And fighting over the dry seat in impulse doesn’t count as a job
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #336
Good players with an average manager. He should have left all of the big guns out of these games were they have looked disinterested at least he would have had an excuse and they would have had a good rest.

I would sack him but I wouldn’t have let him run the team at the euros either.
 

CJ_covblaze

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #337
Unbelievably poor and pathetic. Can only think of two occasions where I’ve seen us play poorer than that. Ramsdale will want two of those goals back. August Kyle Walker and June Kyle Walker are like polar opposites. Phillips looked like he was running in treacle from kick off. Gallagher tried a few things but very little seemed to work for him. Saka probably put in his worst performance in an England shirt. The only player that came out of it with any amount of credit was Bellingham who’s 18 years old ffs.

The only positives were it proved how much we need Maguire and Pickford to start and it was nice to have a game away from Wembley.
 

FulltimeWum

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #338
If a Mourinho side went one nil up at home in a final, the shit housery on show would be on a par with the Porto Celtic final.

Lack of leaders and desire throughout the team.
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #339
CJ_covblaze said:
Unbelievably poor and pathetic. Can only think of two occasions where I’ve seen us play poorer than that. Ramsdale will want two of those goals back. August Kyle Walker and June Kyle Walker are like polar opposites. Phillips looked like he was running in treacle from kick off. Gallagher tried a few things but very little seemed to work for him. Saka probably put in his worst performance in an England shirt. The only player that came out of it with any amount of credit was Bellingham who’s 18 years old ffs.

The only positives were it proved how much we need Maguire and Pickford to start and it was nice to have a game away from Wembley.
Click to expand...
Didn’t think Bellingham was anything special and I’m not sold on the hype surrounding Bellingham in an England shirt to date…
 

CJ_covblaze

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #340
CCFC54321 said:
Didn’t think Bellingham was anything special and I’m not sold on the hype surrounding Bellingham in an England shirt to date…
Click to expand...
When he’s been on the pitch we’ve looked so much better. He drives us forward and causes the opposition problems. As I said too, 18 years old.
 
Reactions: Otis

stupot07

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #341
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It was just that bottom of the table Championship midfielder that was too much to handle. As Southgate said the problem was too many attacking players on the pitch. We could have used another centre back, another holding midfielder and probably another keeper
Click to expand...
Too many attacking players, but failed to even look like scoring


Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Kieranp96

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #342
procdoc said:
He should have gone after the Euros. At least Poch is tactically more astute than Fraudgate and the football would be better. Anyone who thinks Southgate is doing a good job need to follow a different sport as they clearly know nothing about football
Click to expand...

Not sure how you can justify sacking a manager getting you to a final of a major tournament.

You’re assuming Poch would even want the job. I highly doubt he would. There’s a reason we ended up with Southgate in the first place!

Frankly, his major tournament record speaks for itself. ‘Better’ managers messed up easier paths (Capello 2010).
 
Reactions: Evo1883 and mr_monkey

Nick

Administrator
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #343
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Not sure how you can justify sacking a manager getting you to a final of a major tournament.
Click to expand...

Got to a final and pretty much fucked it up. Does that mean he has a job for life?
 
Reactions: mr_monkey
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #344
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Not sure how you can justify sacking a manager getting you to a final of a major tournament.

You’re assuming Poch would even want the job. I highly doubt he would. There’s a reason we ended up with Southgate in the first place!

Frankly, his major tournament record speaks for itself. ‘Better’ managers messed up easier paths (Capello 2010).
Click to expand...

The man himself did question whether he had taken the side as far as he could.
 

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #345
Nick said:
Got to a final and pretty much fucked it up. Does that mean he has a job for life?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Ultimately, he’s judged on major tournaments and we’ll see what happens this year.

We didn’t ‘fuck up’ the final. We played the in-form team, best then in the first half and momentum switched and lost on penalties. Hardly a ‘fuck up’.

Brighton Sky Blue said:
The man himself did question whether he had taken the side as far as he could.
Click to expand...

That might be the case, and these last four games is an opportunity for Southgate to take stock of everything and change the preparation for the tournament.

I’m sorry, but regardless if anyone’s opinion on Southgate, from the highest praise to the most critical… Any reasonable person would think sacking a manager 2 games before the World Cup is a ridiculous idea.

If we under perform in 2022, it’s hardly the case it’s anything unique about Southgate. We had some brilliant teams and players between 2002 and 2010 and did absolutely nothing in 5 tournaments (we didn’t even make one).

By contrast, 2018 was probably one of the worst squads (on paper) in my time, and we got to a semi final.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 15, 2022
  • #346
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Not at all. Ultimately, he’s judged on major tournaments and we’ll see what happens this year.

We didn’t ‘fuck up’ the final. We played the in-form team, best then in the first half and momentum switched and lost on penalties. Hardly a ‘fuck up’.



That might be the case, and these last four games is an opportunity for Southgate to take stock of everything and change the preparation for the tournament.

I’m sorry, but regardless if anyone’s opinion on Southgate, from the highest praise to the most critical… Any reasonable person would think sacking a manager 2 games before the World Cup is a ridiculous idea.

If we under perform in 2022, it’s hardly the case it’s anything unique about Southgate. We had some brilliant teams and players between 2002 and 2010 and did absolutely nothing in 5 tournaments (we didn’t even make one).

By contrast, 2018 was probably one of the worst squads (on paper) in my time, and we got to a semi final.
Click to expand...
Southgate definitely fucked up the final. As he did agaisnt Croatia in 2018, and Holland in the nations league. He took the league and went Cautious trying to hold a slender lead

Southgate has dragged us back to relevancy but it’s clear he doesn’t know how to win. He talks about scoring goals, but plays 2DMs and Mason Mount as his most attacking midfielder. He has some of the most talented attacking players we’ve seen in years but doesn’t want to play them

I’m not too worried at the moment, I like the nations league but currently it’s just glorified friendlies, and even worse they’ve tacked on 4 games to the end of the season. Half the team looked like they couldn’t be arsed. Come November they’ll be all fit and good to go.
 
Reactions: AOM, mr_monkey and Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #347
This made me chuckle. Football365 and their ratings of the England team from Tuesday.

Mason Mount.

 
Reactions: Kieranp96

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #348
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Southgate definitely fucked up the final. As he did agaisnt Croatia in 2018, and Holland in the nations league. He took the league and went Cautious trying to hold a slender lead

Southgate has dragged us back to relevancy but it’s clear he doesn’t know how to win. He talks about scoring goals, but plays 2DMs and Mason Mount as his most attacking midfielder. He has some of the most talented attacking players we’ve seen in years but doesn’t want to play them

I’m not too worried at the moment, I like the nations league but currently it’s just glorified friendlies, and even worse they’ve tacked on 4 games to the end of the season. Half the team looked like they couldn’t be arsed. Come November they’ll be all fit and good to go.
Click to expand...

He clearly does know how to win because he has the highest win % of any England manager with the exception of Sir Alf Ramsey.

There’s a reason for our caution. Our defence really isn’t that good. Maguire and Stones as centre backs? Both good defenders, but not in the same plane as Campbell, Ferdinand and Terry.

Italy were the favourites going into the final, yet England fans believe we’re entitled to have won it. We went 1-0 and we’re on top for most of the first half and the game slipped away from us. Croatia’s 2018 team was probably better than our team and likewise with the Netherlands in 2019.

Likewise, the England fans would probably start all; Mount, Grealish and Foden which would be way too unbalanced.

Ironically, we tried playing just the one DM v Hungary and really tried to attack at 2-0 down and we were too open. Which shows that Southgate isn’t completely clueless to be cautious.

Personally, I think the team will kick on and do well in Qatar. Either way, most England fans will get what they want because Southgate will probably leave. The mood towards him is completely toxic.

Joachim Low and Santos, who won international trophies with Germany and Portugal have terrible club CVs. Which shows that international management is not dependent on club success and that Southgate’s club CV is irrelevant. He earned his stripes managing the age-groups and as a technical director.
 
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #349
Mucca Mad Boys said:
Not at all. Ultimately, he’s judged on major tournaments and we’ll see what happens this year.

We didn’t ‘fuck up’ the final. We played the in-form team, best then in the first half and momentum switched and lost on penalties. Hardly a ‘fuck up’.



That might be the case, and these last four games is an opportunity for Southgate to take stock of everything and change the preparation for the tournament.

I’m sorry, but regardless if anyone’s opinion on Southgate, from the highest praise to the most critical… Any reasonable person would think sacking a manager 2 games before the World Cup is a ridiculous idea.

If we under perform in 2022, it’s hardly the case it’s anything unique about Southgate. We had some brilliant teams and players between 2002 and 2010 and did absolutely nothing in 5 tournaments (we didn’t even make one).

By contrast, 2018 was probably one of the worst squads (on paper) in my time, and we got to a semi final.
Click to expand...

Well I personally haven’t said sack him. In 2002 we narrowly lost to the eventual winners Brazil because of Seaman’s blunder. 2004 we had a legit winning goal chalked off against the hosts. 2006 a penalty shootout. Eriksson did also very quickly turn around the pretty bleak situation Keegan had left him with.

This is the problem with only focusing on the results or final outcome. The game against Scotland summed Southgate up. Still insisting on trying to nick a goal against crap like that at home with our best players walking through treacle. If you’re going to play sleep inducing football then the margin of patience is very thin.
 
Reactions: mr_monkey

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 16, 2022
  • #350
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well I personally haven’t said sack him. In 2002 we narrowly lost to the eventual winners Brazil because of Seaman’s blunder. 2004 we had a legit winning goal chalked off against the hosts. 2006 a penalty shootout. Eriksson did also very quickly turn around the pretty bleak situation Keegan had left him with.

This is the problem with only focusing on the results or final outcome. The game against Scotland summed Southgate up. Still insisting on trying to nick a goal against crap like that at home with our best players walking through treacle. If you’re going to play sleep inducing football then the margin of patience is very thin.
Click to expand...

Did Southgate not inherit a bleak situation? Iceland and Costa Rica knocked us out of our last two major tournaments in 2014 and 2016.

Why are you or anyone bothered by the Scotland result? It was a boring 0-0, but having beaten Croatia, a draw against Scotland guaranteed qualification. That was their cup final whereas we were trying to peak for the knockout stages i.e. exactly what happened.

We also scored the most goals in the KO stages in the Euros and only we scored 2 less goals than Italy and Spain in the whole tournament.

Our group was objectively more difficult than their Groups too.
 
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