What is the club? (1 Viewer)

boatang · Mar 19, 2014

Talk of SISU liquidating the club if they lose the JR and of a new phoenix club leads me to thinking ....

They are already in the process of liquidating CCFC (holdings) the company that was our club has gone, but nobody calls the current setup a phoenix club.

But if they liquidate the current set up and walk away from football, any new club/company will be called a phoenix club and some might say it is NOT CCFC, so I am not interested.

Agreed that they may drop down a few leagues, which they look more and more likely to do anyway, but would a new CCFC (holdings/ltd/enterprises) be so much less than CCFC/OTIUM is now? If, and only if, there is nothing left of the club as it exists currently, what kind of support would a new version be likely to get?

ccfcway · Mar 19, 2014

the one thing i do know is that we dont know

spider_ricoh · Mar 19, 2014

Why the automatic assumption that liquidation would lead to a phoenix club way down the pyramid? We went through liquidation once and kept our golden share so it could happen again.

As for "what is the club?" - my answer would be "in the shit"

Gary.j · Mar 19, 2014

IMO, us, the supporters; we are the club!

lamtara2006 · Mar 19, 2014

It's an interesting yet difficult question. To answer, you maybe also have to ask: when does the current arrangement stop being 'Coventry City' as we know it? If Otium, playing under the trade-name CCFC, look unlikely to return within the city limits, will that be the tipping point when the overwhelming majority of fans say 'the club we loved no longer exists as a tangible identity'? So either: an announcement of a land purchase for a new stadium in a neighbouring authority; or a continuation of the current impasse until (say) the end of 2014; could spell the end for the current entity as something meaningful to Sky Blues Supporters.
Personally, I believe the Club is its supporters, history, culture, team & players (past & present), it therefore exists more as a virtual than a physical reality. Owners ought to be Trustees of that heritage, other than that they have little relevance in the long run. Even if Otium aka CCFC don't return to the City of Coventry anytime soon, most of the component parts of the Club will still remain. What we as supporters then do with that legacy will determine whether the Club lives or dies, irrespective of whether Otium maintains the current 'franchise' - because that's what it will become when the tipping point is passed.
My conclusion therefore is that the 'Club' is an intangible asset that belongs to the supporters and has the capability to survive indefinitely. What Sisu owns via Otium is a Golden Share, some players' contracts, a trade name and various other tangible assets, all of which have usefulness but are not indispensable to the Club in the long term.

Como · Mar 20, 2014

I go with that, technically as far as the League are concerned it is the entity that holds the golden share.

There are also trade mark issues.

Skybluenutterman · Mar 20, 2014

When is this bloody judicial review? It seems everything will be driven by its outcome!

Otis · Mar 20, 2014

Skybluenutterman said:
When is this bloody judicial review? It seems everything will be driven by its outcome!

3 weeks.

Or is that the new stadium announcement? :thinking about:

bigfatronssba · Mar 20, 2014

Under most gauges of what is a club, we are not the same club we were 18 months ago.

Jack Griffin · Mar 20, 2014

Como said:
I go with that, technically as far as the League are concerned it is the entity that holds the golden share.

There are also trade mark issues.

However, the club isn't a trade mark. Essentially it is the fans, everything stems from the fans, without fans there is no club.

Godiva · Mar 20, 2014

Jack Griffin said:
However, the club isn't a trade mark. Essentially it is the fans, everything stems from the fans, without fans there is no club.

On the other hand the club is also the history. So the entity entitled to display the FA cup 87 replica is officially the club.

JohnWH · Mar 20, 2014

I wholeheartedly agree that a club is its fans. A legacy and history, only "managed" on the business side by what are supposed to be beneficial stewards.
Our identity is NOT owned by SISU or any other "owner," now or forever!
Huzzah, lamtara, huzzah.

lamtara2006 said:
It's an interesting yet difficult question. To answer, you maybe also have to ask: when does the current arrangement stop being 'Coventry City' as we know it? If Otium, playing under the trade-name CCFC, look unlikely to return within the city limits, will that be the tipping point when the overwhelming majority of fans say 'the club we loved no longer exists as a tangible identity'? So either: an announcement of a land purchase for a new stadium in a neighbouring authority; or a continuation of the current impasse until (say) the end of 2014; could spell the end for the current entity as something meaningful to Sky Blues Supporters.
Personally, I believe the Club is its supporters, history, culture, team & players (past & present), it therefore exists more as a virtual than a physical reality. Owners ought to be Trustees of that heritage, other than that they have little relevance in the long run. Even if Otium aka CCFC don't return to the City of Coventry anytime soon, most of the component parts of the Club will still remain. What we as supporters then do with that legacy will determine whether the Club lives or dies, irrespective of whether Otium maintains the current 'franchise' - because that's what it will become when the tipping point is passed.
My conclusion therefore is that the 'Club' is an intangible asset that belongs to the supporters and has the capability to survive indefinitely. What Sisu owns via Otium is a Golden Share, some players' contracts, a trade name and various other tangible assets, all of which have usefulness but are not indispensable to the Club in the long term.

stupot07 · Mar 20, 2014

lamtara2006 said:
Personally, I believe the Club is its supporters, history, culture, team & players (past & present),

This plus continuity of competing, the branding, the interface between the company side and the fan, the golden share, To me it is a mixture of physical and virtual aspects.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

mark82 · Mar 20, 2014

Godiva said:
On the other hand the club is also the history. So the entity entitled to display the FA cup 87 replica is officially the club.

For me that is carried with the fans also. At the end of the day we were the ones there cheering on the team. If CCFC permanently relocated out of Coventry are you seriously saying you would continue to support them because a related business won a trophy nearly 30 years ago rather than a new club set up by the fans that were there that day and their descendants playing in Coventry?

ccfc92 · Mar 20, 2014

I assume if it was liquidated/moved permanently out Coventry, we could not sue SISU/Otium for the original CCFC? Rather than setting up a phoenix club?

mark82 · Mar 21, 2014

Not sure what AFC Wimbledon had to do. Not sure if Wimbledon FC history was awarded to them or they had to buy it. For me, I don't need someone to tell me what my clubs history is. It is carried over with myself and fellow fans. Lets hope it doesn't come to that though.

ccfc92 · Mar 21, 2014

mark82 said:
Not sure what AFC Wimbledon had to do. Not sure if Wimbledon FC history was awarded to them or they had to buy it. For me, I don't need someone to tell me what my clubs history is. It is carried over with myself and fellow fans. Lets hope it doesn't come to that though.

I just meant to stop the original ccfc being extinct, could we sue sisu and get the original ccfc back? Naming rights etc. Afc ccfc just doesn't sound great

JohnWH · Mar 21, 2014

mark82 said:
Not sure what AFC Wimbledon had to do. Not sure if Wimbledon FC history was awarded to them or they had to buy it. For me, I don't need someone to tell me what my clubs history is. It is carried over with myself and fellow fans. Lets hope it doesn't come to that though.

It all had something to do with MK Dons' supporters group being denied acceptance by the national group until MK denounced their claim to the history of Wimbledon. Then the history, titles, FA Cup, etc. was transferred back to Merton council for AFCW. The FL supposedly reviewed their regulations to ensure that subsequent "franchising" can't happen again. Hmmm, we'll see how well that works.

Como · Mar 21, 2014

ccfc92 said:
I just meant to stop the original ccfc being extinct, could we sue sisu and get the original ccfc back? Naming rights etc. Afc ccfc just doesn't sound great

Who is we and what would be the basis of any such action?

stupot07 · Mar 21, 2014

ccfc92 said:
I assume if it was liquidated/moved permanently out Coventry, we could not sue SISU/Otium for the original CCFC? Rather than setting up a phoenix club?

Yeah I think you're right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors

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