What is best for the Tax Payer? (3 Viewers)

lewys33 · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
But I'm asking how that would make you worse off?

CCC is my council. I pay tax (a hell of a lot!). I would not be impressed if they used my tax money to fund a stadium, and then sell it for less than what they have put in. Especially when they are having to make cuts left right and centre. Im finding it hard to understand how you don't grasp council money is our money?

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 1, 2013

lewys33 said:
CCC is my council. I pay tax (a hell of a lot!). I would not be impressed if they used my tax money to fund a stadium, and then sell it for less than what they have put in. Especially when they are having to make cuts left right and centre. Im finding it hard to understand how you don't grasp council money is our money?

If I was you I would send a letter to the Council and pose the question as to why the Council Tax is as high as it is. Include as many facts regarding job cuts and the Arena as possible.

Nick · Oct 1, 2013

lewys33 said:
CCC is my council. I pay tax (a hell of a lot!). I would not be impressed if they used my tax money to fund a stadium, and then sell it for less than what they have put in. Especially when they are having to make cuts left right and centre. Im finding it hard to understand how you don't grasp council money is our money?

I understand you pay council tax I just don't grasp how it is your money. Would it make any difference to you if they sold it for a quid or 10 million personally?

Genuine question, not having a go

chiefdave · Oct 1, 2013

paulcalf said:
Whilst ACL hold a lease, the freehold probably won't be worth as much as selling the Freehold without a lease.

According to the council funding documents the freehold at the start of ACLs lease was basically worthless with the value rising as it got closer to the end of the lease. You would also have to buy ACL our and the reverse would be true, the longer the lease has to run the more valuable it is. I can't remember what ACL paid for the lease or how long it was for but you could quite easily pro rata that and come up with a valuation. Sure there's more things to consider than that but it would give you an idea.

lewys33 · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
I understand you pay council tax I just don't grasp how it is your money. Would it make any difference to you if they sold it for a quid or 10 million personally?

Genuine question, not having a go

Personally - No. But that wasn't the original point I was trying to make really.

RoboCCFC90 · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
I understand you pay council tax I just don't grasp how it is your money. Would it make any difference to you if they sold it for a quid or 10 million personally?

Genuine question, not having a go

I think the point of the arguement is that the Government funding that CCC have been using to maintain the Arena isn't that, it's actually Tax Payers money, has the Arena been ruled by a judge as a community asset?

Nick · Oct 1, 2013

RPHunt said:
If you don't believe he would be worse off, then is there any reason why every council in the country shouldn't give all their assets to your favourite private equity fund?

Obviously I don't think anybody should be given away on the cheap or for free.

I just don't get why there is mega uproar, I'd much prefer the council to lose a bit of money IF it benefited the club. By that I don't mean give it away for free.

I don't see the council tax as my money, if they make a good investment and it makes millions will I be getting a rebate?

lewys33 · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
Obviously I don't think anybody should be given away on the cheap or for free.

I just don't get why there is mega uproar, I'd much prefer the council to lose a bit of money IF it benefited the club. By that I don't mean give it away for free.

I don't see the council tax as my money, if they make a good investment and it makes millions will I be getting a rebate?

I am not arguing with that. What I am saying is people cannot use it as an argument when it isn't the best return for the tax payer.

chiefdave · Oct 1, 2013

RoboCCFC90 said:
I think the point of the arguement is that the Government funding that CCC have been using to maintain the Arena isn't that, it's actually Tax Payers money, has the Arena been ruled by a judge as a community asset?

I think, and this is off the top of my head, CCC used their own funds before drawing down on the central funding for cashflow reasons so technically the money initially used was local but it's all tax payers money at the end of the day.

RPHunt · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
Obviously I don't think anybody should be given away on the cheap or for free.

I just don't get why there is mega uproar, I'd much prefer the council to lose a bit of money IF it benefited the club. By that I don't mean give it away for free.

I don't see the council tax as my money, if they make a good investment and it makes millions will I be getting a rebate?

There is uproar because over 90% of the population of Coventry don't watch CCFC and many of them would have a real problem with a council owned asset being sold, at a loss, to a private equity fund that has shown scant regard for the people of Coventry.

chiefdave · Oct 1, 2013

RPHunt said:
There is uproar because over 90% of the population of Coventry don't watch CCFC and many of them would have a real problem with a council owned asset being sold, at a loss, to a private equity fund that has shown scant regard for the people of Coventry.

I suppose the way you would have to do it would be to sell the lease to SISU (having first purchased it back of ACL) but retain the freehold and a right to recall the lease on certain trigger events such as CCFC and the lease being separated for example.

skybluesam66 · Oct 1, 2013

short term gain for the tax payer - property development
long term gain - a successful football club surrounded by retail and leisure - which helps boost the city's economy

if we could have ever got to the premier league (which i wont now see in my life time) - i would estimate an extra £50m per year into the city's economy
A profit of maybe £20m per year for the businesses involved - which would have an NPV probably in excess of £300m

This is in addition to the success of the football business etc

Alas - the clowns completely ballsed it up

mds · Oct 1, 2013

Keep the ground? If no answer is found they demolish it, sell the land for developement for huge amounts or even build on it themselves, lots of room there for a variety of developements, housing business, whatever, big potential for making a pound or two.

torchomatic · Oct 1, 2013

RPHunt said:
There is uproar because over 90% of the population of Coventry don't watch CCFC and many of them would have a real problem with a council owned asset being sold, at a loss, to a private equity fund that has shown scant regard for the people of Coventry.

Was there uproar when CCC bailed out the Arena to the tune of £14m at the same time as slashing their social care budget?

Personally I think there would only be uproar on here.

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thaiskyblue · Oct 1, 2013

torchomatic said:
Was there uproar when CCC bailed out the Arena to the tune of £14m at the same time as slashing their social care budget?

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RPHunt · Oct 1, 2013

torchomatic said:
Was there uproar when CCC bailed out the Arena to the tune of £14m at the same time as slashing their social care budget?

Personally I think there would only be uproar on here.

No, because it made sound financial sense to everyone except SISU and a few people that have an unhealthy hatred for ACL.

Snozz_is_god · Oct 1, 2013

torchomatic said:
Was there uproar when CCC bailed out the Arena to the tune of £14m at the same time as slashing their social care budget?

Personally I think there would only be uproar on here.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk 2

some facts...

CCC did not use any public funds whatsoever to 'bail out' the Arena. They simply borrowed money at a preferential rate to loan to ACL.

CCC do not lose any money in fact they are making a small profit on the deal.

Now....

ACL make money by other means, not just football & as a best guess, I would say they are probably still breaking even & paying off the monthly payment on the £14M loan.

ACL is a private company 50% owned by CCC, now I repeat for those that don't understand, NO tax payers money is currently going into paying for or maintaining the Ricoh arena

bigfatronssba · Oct 1, 2013

What is best for the taxpayer is for the club to put in an offer for the ground at market rate.

The club then works in conjunction with the council to finish the redevelopment of the area. A successful club would then be an asset to the city.

A well run football club working with the council is what is best for taxpayers.

skybluefred · Oct 1, 2013

Warwickhunt said:
or shoring up the finances of a failing Arena Management company either

I take it you have evidence to back up that ludicrous statement.

Covstu · Oct 1, 2013

Nonleagueherewecome said:
"oh yeah, the taxes, the finger thing means the taxes...".

Sorry, just wanted to get my third Simpson's quote in 10 minutes in

it took me a while but I got the episode!

Covstu · Oct 1, 2013

I am a Coventry tax payer but I care more for the club and we need SISU to get the stadium. It gets the club back in the city which is good for the local economy but they should pay the going rate. Having said that the 'going rate' is slowly decreasing, I went to a company event there on Monday and had a quick walk around, the place is sadly in decay and the owners have not done anything to maintain the property.

No future with SISU · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
Does it make a difference either way for the tax payer? I very much doubt it so I don't really see why they are brought into it.

It makes a big difference when the council has to make £140m cuts to their budget over the next 4 years, say that to the people who will lose their jobs as the council give the stadium to a hedge fund who will rake in a big fat profit on it.

No future with SISU · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
But I'm asking how that would make you worse off?

If the council sell the ricoh and then pay of their loans for the stadium, any profit will mean less cuts to the budget so jobs will be saved and make those people better off, or are you on the side of a hedge fund?

No future with SISU · Oct 1, 2013

Nick said:
I understand you pay council tax I just don't grasp how it is your money. Would it make any difference to you if they sold it for a quid or 10 million personally?

Genuine question, not having a go

If they sold it for a quid their will be a lot of services cut ,that will make a diffrence to him and every other resident of coventry, i think you live outside coventry so do not care about the citizens of coventry.

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