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Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (5 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alkhen
  • Start date Sep 21, 2022
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W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,811
shepardo01 said:
Ahhhhhh. Interesting. Not mesh, It's MASH holdings.
Interesting to see where this goes... is there a difference or is Fraser part of MASH holdings?
Click to expand...
Don't think so.
Think they had a Notice to Strike last year for late accounts.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,812
jordan210 said:
Im calling it now. What's the bet if Ashley gets his hands on it. A load of grants for regeneration in that arena become available by CCC
Click to expand...

It would be grants from WMCA or central govt, supported by CCC, not CCC money. That’s what you get if you have a piece of local infrastructure and tick the right boxes.
 

GIMOC

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,813
shepardo01 said:
Ahhhhhh. Interesting. Not mesh, It's MASH holdings.
Interesting to see where this goes... is there a difference or is Fraser part of MASH holdings?
Click to expand...

Mash Holdings is the main company of Ashley I believe. Frasers etc… all subsidiaries of Mash holdings
 
Reactions: shepardo01 and wingy

slowpoke

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,814
Covkid1968# said:
By fast pace you mean arena then club by xmas. The Hoffmeister said it would all be done and dusted by Crimbo so maybe he is the man in the middle here
Click to expand...
I think this has been bubbling away for sometime, maybe since our now preferred bidder missed out on Derby, just a hunch.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,815
slowpoke said:
I think this has been bubbling away for sometime, maybe since our now preferred bidder missed out on Derby, just a hunch.
Click to expand...
If that's the case I'd be more inclined to thinking that yes that Sisu are involved, more so without that being in the timeline.

Edit:- prior to the time's article inviting offers.
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,816
shmmeee said:
It would be grants from WMCA or central govt, supported by CCC, not CCC money. That’s what you get if you have a piece of local infrastructure and tick the right boxes.
Click to expand...

Scratch the right backs you mean.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,817
GIMOC said:
sorry Pete. Didn’t see this.

from my understanding and what I was told. even before Wasps went into admin, Ashley was keeping a close eye on events. It wasn’t an overnight decision.

Hoffman has been in dialogue with sisu (well Joy directly) I’m not saying Hoffman is the middle man in all this but I know he has been in dialogue with Joy since September.

My understanding, sisu would be open to offers at the right price. I feel CCFC ensured the Blackpool game went ahead knowing Ashley would then be the person to invest short term following weeks. Once we know tomorrow that Ashley is the preferred bidder I can see events escalating at a fast pace.
Click to expand...
Hope so. I’ve not been told anything about Gary and Joy but no reason I would be although I’ve asked direct questions
 

GIMOC

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,818
Covkid1968# said:
By fast pace you mean arena then club by xmas. The Hoffmeister said it would all be done and dusted by Crimbo so maybe he is the man in the middle here
Click to expand...

potentially. good friend of mine was with Hoffman in Milan. His words were “I speak to Joy regularly. A lot of changes could occur in the next 2-3 months” So far it seems to insinuate there was truth in that comment. Afterwards the lads did say Hoffman was prem chairman at the time of the Saudi takeover of Newcastle and Hoffman received plenty of flak over it

so they have worked previously.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,819
Nick said:
Scratch the right backs you mean.
Click to expand...

No, but if you scratch the right backs they’ll tell you the best boxes to tick. Grant funding applications seem to be a secret language of their own.
 
Reactions: duffer
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,820
Does make that Hottinger nonsense seem extremely stupid/irrelevant though?
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,821
GIMOC said:
Mash Holdings is the main company of Ashley I believe. Frasers etc… all subsidiaries of Mash holdings
Click to expand...
I've heard MASH holdings mentioned...
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,822
wingy said:
Does make that Hottinger nonsense seem extremely stupid/irrelevant though?
Click to expand...

Think that’s a total goose chase TBH. Gilbert needs to be focusing on what happened before Nov 1st and how Ashley became priority bidder. The “council bailout” is the story him and Ridley have been pushing for a while, but I don’t think that’s the story here if there is one.
 
Reactions: djr8369

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,823
GIMOC said:
sorry Pete. Didn’t see this.

from my understanding and what I was told. even before Wasps went into admin, Ashley was keeping a close eye on events. It wasn’t an overnight decision.

Hoffman has been in dialogue with sisu (well Joy directly) I’m not saying Hoffman is the middle man in all this but I know he has been in dialogue with Joy since September.

My understanding, sisu would be open to offers at the right price. I feel CCFC ensured the Blackpool game went ahead knowing Ashley would then be the person to invest short term following weeks. Once we know tomorrow that Ashley is the preferred bidder I can see events escalating at a fast pace.
Click to expand...
All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?
 

GIMOC

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,824
shepardo01 said:
I've heard MASH holdings mentioned...
Click to expand...

It would appear he will use Mash holdings to finance the deal if it goes ahead mate.
 
Reactions: shepardo01

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,825
The Philosopher said:
All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?
Click to expand...

All the little guys and the taxpayer getting stiffed while the people that made the mess walk away Scott free does seem to be the standard for sports team implosions.
 
Reactions: duffer, Hiraeth, djr8369 and 1 other person

slowpoke

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,826
wingy said:
If that's the case I'd be more inclined to thinking that yes that Sisu are involved, more so without that being in the timeline.

Edit:- prior to the time's article inviting offers.
Click to expand...
It seems to fit timing wise with the Simon Jordan announcement about ccfc up for grabs, coincidence ?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,827
The Philosopher said:
All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?
Click to expand...

It would shock you - you said Ashley had to pay the bond holders back
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,828
wingy said:
Does make that Hottinger nonsense seem extremely stupid/irrelevant though?
Click to expand...

I dont think it's irrelevant. Not sure it's worth. But is interesting that Richardson has very strong ties to Hottinger. in late August he becomes a director of ACL. Then it looks like CCC have been talking with both him and Hottinger.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

GIMOC

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,829
The Philosopher said:
All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?
Click to expand...

that’s business in a nutshell though.it’s the nature of the beasts involved. Most if not all businessman have a ruthless side about them. sisu have been the big fish in a small pond for too many years. Now Ashley is involved they just can’t compete on or off the pitch
 

Nick

Administrator
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,830
shmmeee said:
Think that’s a total goose chase TBH. Gilbert needs to be focusing on what happened before Nov 1st and how Ashley became priority bidder. The “council bailout” is the story him and Ridley have been pushing for a while, but I don’t think that’s the story here if there is one.
Click to expand...


 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,831
Nick said:
Click to expand...

Weve been over this. Do you not think a potential stitch up on the arena sale is a bigger story than a proposal that went nowhere?
 

GIMOC

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,832
wingy said:
A timeline would be very handy.
Click to expand...

remember back at the start of August when the papers were running stories about SISU putting the club up for sale. No smoke without fire. The next turn of events have been brewing for months. The waiting game for most parties is almost over
 
Reactions: better days and wingy

GIMOC

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,833
August the 2nd I believe this article came out.
 

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The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,834
GIMOC said:
August the 2nd I believe this article came out.
Click to expand...
Yep. Posted that on here yesterday myself
 
Reactions: GIMOC

Colin Steins Smile

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,835
The Philosopher said:
All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that's the reality for SME's and sole traders in our market economy. The bigger businesses tend to stuff everyone else.
 
Reactions: duffer and shmmeee

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,836
The bond holders have raised nearly 21k for legal. Not a huge amount. But more than I expected
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,837
GIMOC said:
that’s business in a nutshell though.it’s the nature of the beasts involved. Most if not all businessman have a ruthless side about them. sisu have been the big fish in a small pond for too many years. Now Ashley is involved they just can’t compete on or off the pitch
Click to expand...
The timing, the silence from SISU, MR & Fadz both talking up the squad value and need to unite stadium and team, awkwardness of the Council and “turning down” of bailouts by Richardson, hints from Wasps kitman, all fits the narrative you ascribe.

Still feels dirty - a pre planned stitch-up of the little guys (employees losing jobs etc, taxpayers).

Dirty.
 

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,838
Not sure if this is possible.. but see below ...
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,839
The Philosopher said:
All feels a bit dirty.

Anyone think we could have MA owning the Arena with Richardson, Richardson controlling Wasps2 at the Arena, SISU getting bought out and MA owning CCFC and it all being planned months ago?

Bondholders stiffed
Small unsecured creditors stiffed
HMRC stiffed and us taxpayers footing the bill?

Would this shock anyone?
Click to expand...
No
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,840
Trying to get secured creditors to accept less than their held value has such an echo.

SISU wanted to get (Co-op?) bank to accept less than owed. This is at a time when banks are being bailed out. Who ends up on the hook?

Now the same is happening to this US bank. Bondholders will end up on the hook, and HMRC get taken.

It would not shock me if this whole charade was planned including all parties a while back.
 

The Philosopher

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,841
shepardo01 said:
Not sure if this is possible.. but see below ...
Click to expand...
It’s all a bit wrong.

Rant over.
 

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,842
GIMOC said:
remember back at the start of August when the papers were running stories about SISU putting the club up for sale. No smoke without fire. The next turn of events have been brewing for months. The waiting game for most parties is almost over
Click to expand...

Who owns CCFC by Xmas?
 

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,843
Two things pretty certain in life - death and the cold grip of HMRC - they don’t often get stiffed
 
Reactions: wingy

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,844
shepardo01 said:
Not sure if this is possible.. but see below ...
Click to expand...

Surely the council would make the most money by taking back the lease and reselling it? And if ACL was going to be liquidated then wouldn’t the lease return anyway, or would it be sold by the liquidators? And I thought ACL wasn’t in admin?

Hope everything comes out because all this Twitter randoms “I heard from a mate” is doing my head in. Why can’t Gilbert ask these questions?
 
Reactions: shepardo01

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Nov 16, 2022
  • #12,845
What we need to know is fairly simple: what have the council said to various people about retaking the lease? Could other parties other than NEC/Ashley bid and if not why not? (Dawkins/Sisu could answer this)

The rumours are all about a stitch up before Nov 1st, that’s where the media need to be focusing. You’d expect Sisu to have said something and Dawkins to have focused on that not the exclusivity clause if so, but it needs clarifying.

@SimonGilbert

 
Last edited: Nov 16, 2022
Reactions: Fergusons_Beard
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