Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (7 Viewers)

Philosoraptor · Nov 14, 2022

Reeves should have gone for the absolutely abysmal information he gave on why the Coventry public weren't allowed a vote on joining the WMCA which flew in the face of what DEMSOC said.

Even if we give the explanation from Reeves, the principle of charity, when he said that power flowing down doesn't need a vote, This still failed when CCC moved some of their power from CCC to the WMCA which finalising the deal, this was also agreed to in the same council meeting.

The bloke needs to go. It is long overdue.

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Nov 14, 2022

looking at the alleged offer - can anyone see SISU stumping up 17m to challenge Ashley

Nick · Nov 14, 2022

Yeah Reeves has seemingly been a dick on other things aside from CCFC too.

shmmeee · Nov 14, 2022

chiefdave said:
Nobody is saying the leader of the council has to get permission for any conversation. But do you not think with something that would clearly be hugely controversial and involve such a large amount of money it maybe would have at least been mentioned?

If Duggins and the council knew nothing about it why did he tell Ridley to arrange a meeting with Reeves at the council meeting after the news of the Friday meeting that never happened was leaked?

For me there's two options, either they are in it up to their necks an we're I'm resignation territory or Reeves is incompetent to an even greater level than previously suspected which again is resignation territory.

The meeting comment will have been because there will be commercially sensitive info that can’t be discussed in public. I think that’s it. I got the impression that it was “look, all these questions have answers if you know the full story so go and get the full story”.

As for the other stuff, I guess we’ll see what Reeves says. I expect it to be “never went anywhere, early stage discussions etc etc” but I want to know why he was even considering it and what the plan was. Surely it wasn’t just throw £60m at them to keep the wolves from the door a few more months until a buyer comes in? But I can’t see what else it could have been.

I think Reeves will have to go, Duggins will depend on what he knew and what he said publicly at the time.

Nick · Nov 14, 2022

Yeah but the council aren't involved and have no say?

They are knuckle deep in the pie and their fingers smell of Skips.

chiefdave · Nov 14, 2022

fernandopartridge said:
I was talking about the CEO seeking permission from the leader of the council not the other way around.

So was I, didn't phrase it very well. Having worked at a council in the past it is simply unthinkable to me that something with this potential repetitional damage and level of potential investment would be something undertaken by the CEO with nobody else having any knowledge of it.

CCFCSteve · Nov 14, 2022

tisza said:
Maybe because risk is everyone backs off, waits for liquidation and then the bidding war starts at a much lower rate? And bondholders would get nothing under a liquidation? HMRC not getting to wait around for their money

Exactly. Also, who would fund everything in the meantime; staff, utilities, insurance, various other trading costs and potentially any immediate repairs/dilapidations ?! If the bondholders think there’s a better deal available by running the company in administration and exploring other interest, they should have to/would have to fund it. The gamble could pay off but if I was getting a chunk of cash*, in addition to interest received to date, Id take it, accept it was a risky investment and move on

*assuming they are getting something, say 30-40p in the £ from sale. If it was nothing fair enough complain but can’t see how that can be the case

The Philosopher · Nov 14, 2022

Any nonsense about “exploratory conversations by council officers” sounds utter bilge.

Why would the Wasps board have a vote about a £60m “exploratory conversation”

BS.

This will be fun.

The Philosopher · Nov 14, 2022

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
looking at the alleged offer - can anyone see SISU stumping up 17m to challenge Ashley

Sounds cheap. Build another one for £17m, even if a little run down now.

Exactly.

Nick · Nov 14, 2022

According to Reeves himself it was "bona fide".

It looks as if Reeves was giving it the hard sell to Wasps as well. Why?

fernandopartridge · Nov 14, 2022

[/QUOTE]

CCFCSteve said:
Exactly. Also, who would fund everything in the meantime; staff, utilities, insurance, various other trading costs and potentially any immediate repairs/dilapidations ?! If the bondholders think there’s a better deal available by running the company in administration and exploring other interest, they should have to/would have to fund it. The gamble could pay off but if I was getting a chunk of cash*, in addition to interest received to date, Id take it, accept it was a risky investment and move on

*assuming they are getting something, say 30-40p in the £ from sale. If it was nothing fair enough complain but can’t see how that can be the case

Agree with you, it pisses me off about investors generally in this country in that they think they are owed a return regardless. You take your chances as far as I'm concerned - caveat emptor.

chiefdave · Nov 14, 2022

Philosorapter said:
Reeves should have gone for his absolutely abysmal information he gave on why the Coventry public weren't allowed a vote on joining the WMCA which flew in the face of what DEMSOC said.

Reeves has been chief exec since 2009, in that time there's a long list of things that you would expect to be a resigning issue yet he is still in post.

chiefdave · Nov 14, 2022

shmmeee said:
The meeting comment will have been because there will be commercially sensitive info that can’t be discussed in public. I think that’s it. I got the impression that it was “look, all these questions have answers if you know the full story so go and get the full story”.

If this was all Reeves on his own and he hadn't informed anyone conversations were taking place and we believe the 'the council have no involvement' line how was Duggins aware there was information Reeves could share with Ridley that was commercially confidential?

tisza · Nov 14, 2022

The Philosopher said:
Sounds cheap. Build another one for £17m, even if a little run down now.

Exactly.

17m + 13m (for repairs) - that's outof SISU's reach

shmmeee · Nov 14, 2022

chiefdave said:
If this was all Reeves on his own and he hadn't informed anyone conversations were taking place and we believe the 'the council have no involvement' line how was Duggins aware there was information Reeves could share with Ridley that was commercially confidential?

Because this has been going on for eight years at least. Can you remember the question that lead to that answer?

MalcSB · Nov 14, 2022

The offer to bondholders is at 45p in the pound. If not accepted, as I said before, administrators will put ACL in to liquidation so Arena would probably be closed, That will trigger forfeiture of the lease back to the Council. Presumable more money for bondholders from sale of Wasps Holdings and eventually the P share.

liquidation not good for CCFC unless SISU actually do something with regards to the forfeited lease.

tisza · Nov 14, 2022

Agree with you, it pisses me off about investors generally in this country in that they think they are owed a return regardless. You take your chances as far as I'm concerned - caveat emptor.
[/QUOTE]
Exactly there's a bloody great brochure that listed the potential risks. They've all had to opportunity to follow the annual trading performance and accounts since they bought in. They all had the opportunity to bail when the bond was still trading.

tisza · Nov 14, 2022

MalcSB said:
The offer to bondholders is at 45p in the pound. If not accepted, as I said before, administrators will put ACL in to liquidation. That will trigger forfeiture of the lease back to the Council. Presumable more money for bondholders from sale of Wasps Holdings and eventually the P share.

liquidation not good for CCFC unless SISU actually do something with regards to the forfeited lease.

Think in liquidation the P share automatically reverts to Rugby Premier League

The Philosopher · Nov 14, 2022

tisza said:
17m + 13m (for repairs) - that's outof SISU's reach

I’m not sure it really is £13m repairs or if they have to be done straight away.

CCFCSteve · Nov 14, 2022

MalcSB said:
The offer to bondholders is at 45p in the pound. If not accepted, as I said before, administrators will put ACL in to liquidation so Arena would probably be closed, That will trigger forfeiture of the lease back to the Council. Presumable more money for bondholders from sale of Wasps Holdings and eventually the P share.

liquidation not good for CCFC unless SISU actually do something with regards to the forfeited lease.

So, I’d imagine if the lease was forfeited by the council, the bondholders wouldn’t get anything from a future sale ?! The Council could also do an immediate deal with Ashley (or another bidder)

I just can’t understand what the bondholders think is going to come from trying to stop the sale . I personally think they are playing with fire and it wouldn’t end well (unless they’ve got a pot of cash to fund it in administration and other bidders lining up to pay a better price)…but then again it’s not my cash

MalcSB · Nov 14, 2022

tisza said:
Think in liquidation the P share automatically reverts to Rugby Premier League

P share isn’t with ACL.

jordan210 · Nov 14, 2022

As Reeves spoke with Hottinger as a representative of CCC I assume he has full minutes of the meetings that he can share..........

Nick · Nov 14, 2022

Not sure if it's being mentioned.

The Hottinger CEO was also a director of Wasps Holdings.

So Reeves has literally paired up with somebody involved with Wasps to try and agree a bailout.

Also a director of a company with Jade from little mix.

chiefdave · Nov 14, 2022

CCFCSteve said:
I just can’t understand what the bondholders think is going to come from trying to stop the sale . I personally think they are playing with fire and it wouldn’t end well (unless they’ve got a pot of cash to fund it in administration and other bidders lining up to pay a better price)…but then again it’s not my cash

the bondholders have had years of being told the lease alone is worth far more than the total they are owed. They're now looking at a sale process where there's a suggestion Ashley was lined up before anyone else got a look in. It's very possible they feel they are being short changed.

They at least need to know what their options are and their trustee seems to be, at best, doing nothing, at worst, not working in their best interests.

shmmeee · Nov 14, 2022

MalcSB said:
The offer to bondholders is at 45p in the pound. If not accepted, as I said before, administrators will put ACL in to liquidation so Arena would probably be closed, That will trigger forfeiture of the lease back to the Council. Presumable more money for bondholders from sale of Wasps Holdings and eventually the P share.

liquidation not good for CCFC unless SISU actually do something with regards to the forfeited lease.

Best time for it to happen though, no? With five weeks until the next home game. Is that long enough to get things sorted?

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Nov 14, 2022

Couldn’t they go after Wasps Holdings for the rest? I’m sure wasps holdings is the ultimate guarantor of the bonds

jordan210 · Nov 14, 2022

Nick said:
Not sure if it's being mentioned.

The Hottinger CEO was also a director of Wasps Holdings.

So Reeves has literally paired up with somebody involved with Wasps to try and agree a bailout.

Also a director of a company with Jade from little mix.

Thats one Gilbert should be questioning him on

robbiekeane · Nov 14, 2022

can anyone summarise the last weeks events?

shmmeee · Nov 14, 2022

robbiekeane said:
can anyone summarise the last weeks events?

Nick · Nov 14, 2022

shmmeee said:
Best time for it to happen though, no? With five weeks until the next home game. Is that long enough to get things sorted?

Yeah, I did think if there was going to be an ideal time for something to happen it would be now.

Gynnsthetonic · Nov 14, 2022

Has Reeves personally purchased bonds or have the council, is this withheld imormation or can any see if he/they have, surely it would be in the council accounts if they did

Nick · Nov 14, 2022

jordan210 said:
Thats one Gilbert should be questioning him on

"Did you try and pair up with Hottinger so you could meet Jade from Little Mix?"

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Nov 14, 2022

robbiekeane said:
can anyone summarise the last weeks events?

1) we’re on our way to the premier league
2) council are still cunts
3) SISU still don’t have a clue what they’re doing
4) Mike Ashley has put on planning permission for a sports direct outlet in the exhibition hall, whilst giving Joy a ride on his chopper

jordan210 · Nov 14, 2022

Hottinger also were a shirt sponsor of wasps last season

jordan210 · Nov 14, 2022

So Hottinger have been a sponsor of Wasps. CEO was a Director until last year.

Cant see any conflict of interest that CCC started tot talk to them to get a deal done.

Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (7 Viewers)

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