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Wasps going into admin & the impact on CCFC (7 Viewers)

  • Thread starter Alkhen
  • Start date Sep 21, 2022
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2022
  • #911
duffer said:
As I understand it, it's controlled by the FCA and you need stuff like a draft bond prospectus that meets with their approval.

Given the current bond is supposed to have redeemed in May, and all of the confusion around administration, I can't see the FCA relisting it.

That's because I also can't see how the current prospectus can be seen to apply and that the bonds themselves are now technically in default.

In short, I can't see it happening.

The only way I see the bondholders getting paid is a new investor clearing the debt, possibly by offering a haircut, or the bondholders forcing the sale of the lease and any other assets held by Wasps/ACL.

Thinking it through further, the problem with offering a haircut is that they'd have to get a certain proportion to agree, and I don't think that's going to be easy in the amount of time Wasps have left; especially now that the administration clock is ticking.

Unless there's genuinely someone out there with a lot of money to throw at Wasps, £40-50m, then I can't see any way they avoid administration. Just my personal opinion though, obviously.
Click to expand...


Remember the Trustee acts for the Bondholders. I don't know if he has to take a vote to make his decision on a redemption price or he can apply his discretion
 
Reactions: duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2022
  • #912
oldfiver said:
Remember the Trustee acts for the Bondholders. I don't know if he has to take a vote to make his decision on a redemption price or he can apply his discretion
Click to expand...

It's an absolutely fair point.

I'm thinking that whilst he might be able to sit on his hands during the admin process and say, "I don't know what you want me to do", he'll find that a lot more perilous if he says unilaterally "we'll take 50%" when by all accounts the lease and assets should cover the whole amount.

At some point he might find himself in court with that approach, I'd venture, because that's clearly not acting in the bondholders best interests.
 
R

robbiethemole

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2022
  • #913
Aren’t we all so very glad CCC refused to sell to SISU all those years ago, can you imagine the shitshow that would have happened if they had been allowed to raise millions against a lease on the stadium?…………oh, hang on
 
Last edited: Oct 5, 2022
Reactions: torchomatic, Skyblueweeman, Moff and 2 others

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2022
  • #914
robbiethemole said:
Aren’t we all so very glad CCC refused to sell to SISU all those years ago, can you imagine the shitshow that would have happened if they had been allowed to raise millions against a lease on the stadium?…………oh, hang on
Click to expand...
What the the heck, Lucas, Mutton and Co were thinking I don't know, done out of sheer spite
 
Reactions: no_loyalty, AOM, Skyblueweeman and 8 others
O

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2022
  • #915
wingy said:
What would have to change for the exchange to remove the restrictions on trading the bond's?
Click to expand...

at least 3 conditions - probably more

Proof of Solvency
All regulatory matters are up to date (eg Accounts )
A current audited financial statement
 
Reactions: duffer, dadgad and wingy

hutch1972

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 5, 2022
  • #916
steve cooper said:
Still a ridiculously high rate. During the time the bond has been in issue there have been times when it was a struggle to get 1%
Obviously it reflected the risk, as all investments do.
Click to expand...
There are bond risks where you are covered up to 85k, and there are retail bond risks where you can be left penniless. Sorry to say the Wasps bonds are the latter.
 
Reactions: duffer and steve cooper

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #917
oldfiver said:
at least 3 conditions - probably more

Proof of Solvency
All regulatory matters are up to date (eg Accounts )
A current audited financial statement
Click to expand...

And the regulations require a bond prospectus, that really long document that outlines the business structures, breaks down the accounts, the valuations, and the risks.

The current one is clearly out of date, given all of the changes that have happened and the fact the bond redemption date has already passed. I don't think the bonds will be relisted anytime soon.
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #918
Just those 4 in singers corner on sunday
 
Reactions: jordan210, Sky Blue Harry H and Saddlebrains

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #919
Apparently, Wasps are running out to this on Sunday

https://giphy.com/Ase7L4MjavtBb0L3cx
 
Reactions: duffer, Moff, Gynnsthetonic and 2 others

LastGarrison

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #920
Gynnsthetonic said:
Just those 4 in singers corner on sunday
Click to expand...
Fucking hell.
 
Reactions: AOM and eastwoodsdustman

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #921
LastGarrison said:
Fucking hell.
Click to expand...

He seems to take Nobby the Gnome everywhere
 

tisza

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #922
Gynnsthetonic said:
Just those 4 in singers corner on sunday
Click to expand...
Which one is shugs?
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #923
And in other news, Wasps are back in a recruitment freeze.

It might just be me, but reading between the lines I think this is a slightly more downbeat (i.e. realistic) interview by the head coach.

What Wasps' players were told Wednesday about second court filing

Wasps' Lee Blackett has revealed players and staff were addressed at the training ground on Wednesday by CEO Vaughan and COO Holland.
www.rugbypass.com
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #924
Grendel said:
He seems to take Nobby the Gnome everywhere
Click to expand...
Does the gnome count towards ticket sales.
 
Reactions: Alkhen, BananaFlats and Black Panther

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #925
Gynnsthetonic said:
Just those 4 in singers corner on sunday
Click to expand...

Alexa, tell me what second hand embarrassment means.
 
Reactions: Skybluedownunder, Moff and Skyblueweeman

skyblueeyesrevisited

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #926
Gynnsthetonic said:
Just those 4 in singers corner on sunday
Click to expand...
Reminded me of the tribal chant in Zulu.
Frightening
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #927


"The BBC has discovered that Coventry City Council, as freeholder of the stadium, has the right to force Wasps to forfeit the lease "if the tenant enters into some kind of insolvency regime"."


Pretty sure MusicDating pointed this out days ago....
 
Reactions: no_loyalty, Hiraeth, robbiethemole and 1 other person

Nick

Administrator
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #928
Hasn't that been said for years?

However, that says the Council "has the right" which means they clearly aren't going to do it.
 
Reactions: Skybluedownunder

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #929
Nick said:
Hasn't that been said for years?

However, that says the Council "has the right" which means they clearly aren't going to do it.
Click to expand...
This is the normal delay of beeb news !
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #930
jordan210 said:

"The BBC has discovered that Coventry City Council, as freeholder of the stadium, has the right to force Wasps to forfeit the lease "if the tenant enters into some kind of insolvency regime"."

Pretty sure MusicDating pointed this out days ago....
Click to expand...
'discovered', do they mean by reading the bond prospectus issued years ago
 
Reactions: duffer, MusicDating, jordan210 and 1 other person

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #931
chiefdave said:
'discovered', do they mean by reading the bond prospectus issued years ago
Click to expand...

The other day they dint know wasps 2006 had filled an NOI. Id guess they saw it on here and then read the prospect.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #932
jordan210 said:


"The BBC has discovered that Coventry City Council, as freeholder of the stadium, has the right to force Wasps to forfeit the lease "if the tenant enters into some kind of insolvency regime"."


Pretty sure MusicDating pointed this out days ago....
Click to expand...


 
Reactions: ccfcchris, duffer, AOM and 5 others

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #933
jordan210 said:


"The BBC has discovered that Coventry City Council, as freeholder of the stadium, has the right to force Wasps to forfeit the lease "if the tenant enters into some kind of insolvency regime"."


Pretty sure MusicDating pointed this out days ago....
Click to expand...

A chance for CCC to correct a huge wrongdoing. Will they take it? I very much doubt it?
 
Reactions: Skybluedownunder and no_loyalty
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #934
Nick said:
Hasn't that been said for years?

However, that says the Council "has the right" which means they clearly aren't going to do it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Very unlikely. They might do if there’s no other alternative or if they felt that the correct solution wasn’t being progressed/executed (again extremely unlikely)

They are likely to work with an administrator to agree transfer/sale of long lease
 

Gynnsthetonic

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #935
CCFCSteve said:
Exactly. Very unlikely. They might do if there’s no other alternative or if they felt that the correct solution wasn’t being progressed/executed (again extremely unlikely)

They are likely to work with an administrator to agree transfer/sale of long lease
Click to expand...
Sale or transfer back to Richardson who will then let newly formed but not relegated Wasp 2022 RFC play there
 

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #936
Now that wasps community foundation appears to be active again after being struck off. what's the bet the lease ends up with them...
 
Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
Reactions: fernandopartridge and Saddlebrains

Skyblueweeman

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #937
jordan210 said:
Now that wasps community foundation appears to be active again after being struck off. what's the best the lease ends up with them...
Click to expand...

Imagine if Sisu had the lease, they went pop and then SKITC took on the lease - there'd be uproar.
 
Reactions: Gynnsthetonic
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #938
Gynnsthetonic said:
Sale or transfer back to Richardson who will then let newly formed but not relegated Wasp 2022 RFC play there
Click to expand...

If he makes the best offer and rugby authorities agree, yes, maybe
 

Samo

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #939
CCFCSteve said:
If he makes the best offer and rugby authorities agree, yes, maybe
Click to expand...

But what would be the point? The business model doesn't work. I would have thought they would be glad to get rid of the lease and fuck off somewhere smaller and cheaper.
 
Reactions: CCFCSteve, hutch1972 and SkyBlueSam01

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #940
CCFCSteve said:
If he makes the best offer and rugby authorities agree, yes, maybe
Click to expand...
Are the council duty bound to get the best price and sell to whoever wants it though? If it goes into Admin, wouldn't they have a responsibility to get as much as they can for the creditors? Haven't we complained that SISU weren't offered the chance to buy the lease? After all the fruckuss, both then and now, could they make councillors vote for selling it virtually straight back to Wasps? Doesn't sound best value to me, stinks of skullduggery.
 
T

Theonlywayisskyblue

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #941
RegTheDonk said:
Are the council duty bound to get the best price and sell to whoever wants it though? If it goes into Admin, wouldn't they have a responsibility to get as much as they can for the creditors? Haven't we complained that SISU weren't offered the chance to buy the lease? After all the fruckuss, both then and now, could they make councillors vote for selling it virtually straight back to Wasps? Doesn't sound best value to me.
Click to expand...
They didn't follow due process last time - why would it be any different this time ? Selling it back to WaspsV2 on the basis that things will be different this time based on a fantasy business model is surely the only way for them to cover their backs. Otherwise they have to admit they got it wrong last time ? Don't want to be unduly cynical but when they're up to your elbows in it.......
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #942
Journalism is on its arse

 
Reactions: TomRad85 and MAFF

jordan210

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #943
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #944
as a journalist isn't one of the basic requirements to make sure the report you're filing is actually clear?
 
Reactions: torchomatic, Somerset Sky Blue, Mcbean and 1 other person
J

JonesBob

Well-Known Member
  • Oct 6, 2022
  • #945
That Simon Gilbert is such a numpty. He is lucky to be working in a regional paper that has a 4 figure readership otherwise he would be out faster than a slippery turd.
 
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